Pope And Young Numbers
12-07-2008, 02:30 PM
#31
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Where the ducks don't come no more
Posts: 4,420
RE: Pope And Young Numbers
ORIGINAL: buckmaster
Good to see VA up there in the running.
Good to see VA up there in the running.
Trust me there were a lot more than two killed in the state. I know of at least a dozen killed this year that would meet the minimums for P&Y. With the state of VA having its own scoring system and big game contest, hardly anybody enters deer in P&Y or B&C.
12-07-2008, 03:04 PM
#32
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location:
Posts: 2,139
RE: Pope And Young Numbers
Steve, I know you keep up with this info. Have you noticed any interesting trends. Like some states moving up or down?
Here is something to think about too. I took a buck in to get mounted. One day my phone rings and the guy on the other end tells me he scored my buck. He told me he goes to taxi. shops and scores racks. I asked him who gave him permission to score my rack. He told me the taxi. Anyway, the point is, guys like this can really skew the numbers. I found out that the more racks you score the more clout you get within the scoring community? So maybe thats why he does it?
Here is something to think about too. I took a buck in to get mounted. One day my phone rings and the guy on the other end tells me he scored my buck. He told me he goes to taxi. shops and scores racks. I asked him who gave him permission to score my rack. He told me the taxi. Anyway, the point is, guys like this can really skew the numbers. I found out that the more racks you score the more clout you get within the scoring community? So maybe thats why he does it?
12-07-2008, 04:12 PM
#33
Giant Nontypical
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Central Minnesota
Posts: 9,445
RE: Pope And Young Numbers
Have you noticed any interesting trends. Like some states moving up or down?
Here is something to think about too. I took a buck in to get mounted. One day my phone rings and the guy on the other end tells me he scored my buck. He told me he goes to taxi. shops and scores racks. I asked him who gave him permission to score my rack. He told me the taxi. Anyway, the point is, guys like this can really skew the numbers. I found out that the more racks you score the more clout you get within the scoring community? So maybe that's why he does it?
12-07-2008, 04:23 PM
#34
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Where the ducks don't come no more
Posts: 4,420
RE: Pope And Young Numbers
ORIGINAL: Schultzy
I'm by no way speaking on behalf of the P&Y club but this Is what I've gathered from guys that I know are official measurers. That guy In no way could enter your buck In the P&Y books without the following Info I listed below. The Info below Is right off of the P&Y website. As far as I'm concerned he had no right to even measure your buck period even If It's for his own pleasure. I would of been ticked! [ul][*]Fair Chase Affidavit, completed and signed by the bowhunter and signed by a witness[*]Three (3) photographs of the antlers, horns or skull (a view from the front, a view from the left and a view from the right)[*]A field photo (of the animal and the hunter), if available[*]$35.00 recording fee, payable to the Pope and Young Club [/ul]
Here is something to think about too. I took a buck in to get mounted. One day my phone rings and the guy on the other end tells me he scored my buck. He told me he goes to taxi. shops and scores racks. I asked him who gave him permission to score my rack. He told me the taxi. Anyway, the point is, guys like this can really skew the numbers. I found out that the more racks you score the more clout you get within the scoring community? So maybe that's why he does it?
x2
I am one of six official measurers in my state for the Boone and Crocket Club. We have much the same requirements as P&Y.... higher minimum scores for entry and slightly different measuring practices (very slight)... but the long and short of it is that if a trophy owner/hunter does not want to include their head in the record book... that is their right. Even if a trophy qualifies for entry.... doesn't mean it is going into the book. All the owner has to do is refuse to pay the entry fee... and there you have it.
As to having someone measure a rack.... honestly I don't see any harm in that at all. There is ZERO amount of recognition or clout attached to scoring a rack or how many you score or whatever. I have still yet to score a buck that qualifies for B&C records.... I've scored several dozen heads... probably over 100.... and I've had some miss by as little as 1.5" (or for you other measurers.... 1 4/8"
)In my opinion, the way you gain experience as a measurer is by doing it. The more heads you score the better at it you will be. I always make a copy of the heads I score and keep them for my records. And I always give a copy to the trophy owner, and lots of them have them framed and keep them right alongside their mount in their homes. I think its a nice touch.
12-07-2008, 04:27 PM
#35
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location:
Posts: 2,139
RE: Pope And Young Numbers
ORIGINAL: Schultzy
Kentucky, Indiana, Ohio, Missouri, Kansas have gone through the roof with P&Y entry's the last 10 years. The last 5 years North and South Dakota have also entered the ranks. Minnesota, Michigan have went way down hill with there P&Y entry's.
I'm by no way speaking on behalf of the P&Y club but this Is what I've gathered from guys that I know are official measurers. That guy In no way could enter your buck In the P&Y books without the following Info I listed below. The Info below Is right off of the P&Y website. As far as I'm concerned he had no right to even measure your buck period even If It's for his own pleasure. I would of been ticked!
[ul][*]Fair Chase Affidavit, completed and signed by the bowhunter and signed by a witness[*]Three (3) photographs of the antlers, horns or skull (a view from the front, a view from the left and a view from the right)[*]A field photo (of the animal and the hunter), if available[*]$35.00 recording fee, payable to the Pope and Young Club [/ul]
Have you noticed any interesting trends. Like some states moving up or down?
Here is something to think about too. I took a buck in to get mounted. One day my phone rings and the guy on the other end tells me he scored my buck. He told me he goes to taxi. shops and scores racks. I asked him who gave him permission to score my rack. He told me the taxi. Anyway, the point is, guys like this can really skew the numbers. I found out that the more racks you score the more clout you get within the scoring community? So maybe that's why he does it?
[ul][*]Fair Chase Affidavit, completed and signed by the bowhunter and signed by a witness[*]Three (3) photographs of the antlers, horns or skull (a view from the front, a view from the left and a view from the right)[*]A field photo (of the animal and the hunter), if available[*]$35.00 recording fee, payable to the Pope and Young Club [/ul]
12-07-2008, 04:37 PM
#36
Giant Nontypical
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Central Minnesota
Posts: 9,445
RE: Pope And Young Numbers
ORIGINAL: magicman54494
You are probably correct Steve. Thats why he called me. He was trying to get me to enter it. I told him I wasn't interested. He did tell me that even if it's not entered he still has to turn in every score sheet. Whatever that means?
ORIGINAL: Schultzy
Kentucky, Indiana, Ohio, Missouri, Kansas have gone through the roof with P&Y entry's the last 10 years. The last 5 years North and South Dakota have also entered the ranks. Minnesota, Michigan have went way down hill with there P&Y entry's.
I'm by no way speaking on behalf of the P&Y club but this Is what I've gathered from guys that I know are official measurers. That guy In no way could enter your buck In the P&Y books without the following Info I listed below. The Info below Is right off of the P&Y website. As far as I'm concerned he had no right to even measure your buck period even If It's for his own pleasure. I would of been ticked! [ul][*]Fair Chase Affidavit, completed and signed by the bowhunter and signed by a witness[*]Three (3) photographs of the antlers, horns or skull (a view from the front, a view from the left and a view from the right)[*]A field photo (of the animal and the hunter), if available[*]$35.00 recording fee, payable to the Pope and Young Club [/ul]
Have you noticed any interesting trends. Like some states moving up or down?
Here is something to think about too. I took a buck in to get mounted. One day my phone rings and the guy on the other end tells me he scored my buck. He told me he goes to taxi. shops and scores racks. I asked him who gave him permission to score my rack. He told me the taxi. Anyway, the point is, guys like this can really skew the numbers. I found out that the more racks you score the more clout you get within the scoring community? So maybe that's why he does it?
12-07-2008, 04:58 PM
#37
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location:
Posts: 2,139
RE: Pope And Young Numbers
The whole conversation with this guy kinda caught me off guard. I was right in the middle of serving supper to my kids when the call came. He never mentioned any fees or pics or paperwork. As far as what I refered to as "clout". Someone, and it might have been the guy that called me, made it sound like the more experience you have gives you opertunities to score bigger heads or score as part of a panel on top end bucks? I would assume they call the more experienced scorers when they measure one that ranks high in the books. I'm sure swampcollie could tell us more about how it works.
I guess my point was that even if a few guys go around to the shops like this guy, a lot more in that area will most likely get entered.
That head was the one that fell this spring[:'(]the skull plate broke but the antlers survived the fall. Now I have an adjustable spread buck.[8D]
I guess my point was that even if a few guys go around to the shops like this guy, a lot more in that area will most likely get entered.
That head was the one that fell this spring[:'(]the skull plate broke but the antlers survived the fall. Now I have an adjustable spread buck.[8D]
12-07-2008, 05:35 PM
#38
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Where the ducks don't come no more
Posts: 4,420
RE: Pope And Young Numbers
ORIGINAL: magicman54494
You are probably correct Steve. Thats why he called me. He was trying to get me to enter it. I told him I wasn't interested. He did tell me that even if it's not entered he still has to turn in every score sheet. Whatever that means?
You are probably correct Steve. Thats why he called me. He was trying to get me to enter it. I told him I wasn't interested. He did tell me that even if it's not entered he still has to turn in every score sheet. Whatever that means?
Ahh... I'm with you now.
P&Y probably has something similar to what we have in B&C called a Report Card. All it does is show that you are doing something. Moreover, it puts info into the B&C database... and it is thirdly used to prevent "score shopping". Report cards do have some preference because it lets the club know who is doing something and who is doing nothing... which is taken into consideration when it comes to reappointment (I just got reappointed myself... and I've never had one make the records.... so I know that having more in the book as a measurer is bunk).
In that case, if he is scoring them to try and turn them in on report cards without permission.... I'd probably call up the Records department and ask what the offical policy on that is... but my moral compass points to no way jose... probably not cool without permission.... I might score one for fun myself just to practice, but to score one and submit it on any level without the permission of the owner.... nah... can't be cool.
12-07-2008, 05:45 PM
#39
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location:
Posts: 2,139
RE: Pope And Young Numbers
ORIGINAL: SwampCollie
Ahh... I'm with you now.
P&Y probably has something similar to what we have in B&C called a Report Card. All it does is show that you are doing something. Moreover, it puts info into the B&C database... and it is thirdly used to prevent "score shopping". Report cards do have some preference because it lets the club know who is doing something and who is doing nothing... which is taken into consideration when it comes to reappointment (I just got reappointed myself... and I've never had one make the records.... so I know that having more in the book as a measurer is bunk).
In that case, if he is scoring them to try and turn them in on report cards without permission.... I'd probably call up the Records department and ask what the offical policy on that is... but my moral compass points to no way jose... probably not cool without permission.... I might score one for fun myself just to practice, but to score one and submit it on any level without the permission of the owner.... nah... can't be cool.
ORIGINAL: magicman54494
You are probably correct Steve. Thats why he called me. He was trying to get me to enter it. I told him I wasn't interested. He did tell me that even if it's not entered he still has to turn in every score sheet. Whatever that means?
You are probably correct Steve. Thats why he called me. He was trying to get me to enter it. I told him I wasn't interested. He did tell me that even if it's not entered he still has to turn in every score sheet. Whatever that means?
Ahh... I'm with you now.
P&Y probably has something similar to what we have in B&C called a Report Card. All it does is show that you are doing something. Moreover, it puts info into the B&C database... and it is thirdly used to prevent "score shopping". Report cards do have some preference because it lets the club know who is doing something and who is doing nothing... which is taken into consideration when it comes to reappointment (I just got reappointed myself... and I've never had one make the records.... so I know that having more in the book as a measurer is bunk).
In that case, if he is scoring them to try and turn them in on report cards without permission.... I'd probably call up the Records department and ask what the offical policy on that is... but my moral compass points to no way jose... probably not cool without permission.... I might score one for fun myself just to practice, but to score one and submit it on any level without the permission of the owner.... nah... can't be cool.
12-07-2008, 05:52 PM
#40
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Mont County, Pa
Posts: 7,368
RE: Pope And Young Numbers
ORIGINAL: Schultzy
Like you said though, allot don't get entered, that goes for everywhere as well.
ORIGINAL: psebwhntr16
Sorry, meant to say inproportionate data. I bet I could get on the horn right now and give you +14 different names of bow hunters who killed P&Ys this season in KY. More interestingly, what % of bow hunters are P&Y Club Members? Or better yet, what % of KY bow hunters have even heard of P&Y. LOL. C'mon now. It's almost as irrelevant as that B&C USA color coated map that details individual counties. Not trying to start an argument, just saying.
ORIGINAL: Schultzy
Huh?
Huh?
