Is it really that much better??
12-04-2008, 06:28 PM
#51
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location:
Posts: 2,139
RE: Is it really that much better??
ORIGINAL: Vabowman
Is it really that much better hunting in Iowa, ILL, and KS than the rest of the country..?? You read about it, you watch it, and you see the pics of guys on here...is it just that easy to go out there, given it's private land, all things being equal..is it just a better place to hunt??? I mean every state has some big bucks, the numbers might not be there, but the bucks are there...or is it that those states have more big deer, but as equally hard to kill as anywhere esle?? do those big bucks move more during day light?? do they move all day?? Im not trying to start a location thread....Im trying figure out if I can actually take something from a guy who hunts these states vs here in Va...is what he does going to be helpfu to me?? We have so many variables here in Va...deer hounds a year long in the woods, popuation of peope is crazy, land is soooo hard to come by, and it it's warmer longer....anyone ever hunted the midwest and the east that can tell me??
Is it really that much better hunting in Iowa, ILL, and KS than the rest of the country..?? You read about it, you watch it, and you see the pics of guys on here...is it just that easy to go out there, given it's private land, all things being equal..is it just a better place to hunt??? I mean every state has some big bucks, the numbers might not be there, but the bucks are there...or is it that those states have more big deer, but as equally hard to kill as anywhere esle?? do those big bucks move more during day light?? do they move all day?? Im not trying to start a location thread....Im trying figure out if I can actually take something from a guy who hunts these states vs here in Va...is what he does going to be helpfu to me?? We have so many variables here in Va...deer hounds a year long in the woods, popuation of peope is crazy, land is soooo hard to come by, and it it's warmer longer....anyone ever hunted the midwest and the east that can tell me??
12-04-2008, 06:32 PM
#52
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Southeast, Va
Posts: 3,965
RE: Is it really that much better??
Hunter 59 good response!! now for the rest of you....if you hunt the midwest, then tell me how the deer movement is...Oct, Nov, and Dec....this had nothing to do really with big bucks as to who has them and who doesn't...it has something to do with how well they move, put it this way for example...tonight was the first time I have seen an antlered buck while bowhunting since Nov 13th...I have bowhunted at least 10times or more....in fact I have only seen 6 deer since Nov 13th.. and Im hunting mostly high pop. areas..it's typical for Va every year...does this happen in the midwest?? I realize they are not in every woodot and behind every tree, just tell me how they move through out the season..
12-04-2008, 06:34 PM
#53
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: S. Illinois
Posts: 1,325
RE: Is it really that much better??
ORIGINAL: TEmbry
Points all valid and taken. I think that ties back into hunter's attitudes more than anything (what I struggle with here locally). Is IL managed THAT much better with that much more potential, or is it the attitude of hunters?
If PA hunters had the mindset of IL hunters...would the hunting be similar after 3-4 years?
Like I said, Antler wise? No doubt they can grow bigger where there are unlimited food resources, good cover, and good genetics....but the number of mature bucks has nothing to do with that, it's all in the hunting season's structure, and the overall attitude of hunting.
The more I think about it, the more Im starting to believe the attitude of the hunting masses is the number one factor into how good the deer hunting is, big bucks speaking...Big picture here, not a single farm, a state or at the very least a county's area.
ORIGINAL: Matt / PA
Ive hunted Illinois for a total of 6 weeks spread over 4 seasons........I've taken ZERO "mature" bucks. LOL but I've also SEEN literally dozens with no good shot opportunities. Hell I saw a 150-160" 10 pt the first AM of the first day I ever hunted in Illinois on a DIY hunt. LOL To that point in PA I had never seen even one in 20 full seasons. 
Ok so I killed my biggest buck in PA, the ONLY P&Y deer I have ever seen on the hoof in PA in my life and I killed him........statictical anomoly that was in the wrong place at the wrong time. [8D]
What you also have to realize is that for 4 seasons in IL plus Nebraska I have passed up handfuls of deer that would have been my best to date by far hoping for a gagger........deer I would have emptied my quiver at and lept from my stand to kill with my bare hands in PA if need be.
The odds tell me I need to be hunting out there.
I honestly feel like I should/would be putting down a solid P&Y buck where we hunt in Illinois probably every other or every 3rd year.........in PA I have only SEEN the one I killed last year.
We have roughly 1,000,000 licensed hunters here, probably 3/4 of them still have a "buck" tag come rifle season which is a 2 week 3pts to a side, plus we're gonna kill every button buck that walks by, free-for-all.......vs 2 short shotgun seasons in a state where you'll get made fun of for shooting a 1.5yr old?
There's no comparison that can be made between PA and a state like Illinois or Iowa beyond we both have whitetail deer.
But look at it this way Matt...how many years have you hunted IL? How many mature bucks have you taken? Which state was your biggest buck from? (I don't know these answers, not loaded questions)
Ok so I killed my biggest buck in PA, the ONLY P&Y deer I have ever seen on the hoof in PA in my life and I killed him........statictical anomoly that was in the wrong place at the wrong time. [8D]
What you also have to realize is that for 4 seasons in IL plus Nebraska I have passed up handfuls of deer that would have been my best to date by far hoping for a gagger........deer I would have emptied my quiver at and lept from my stand to kill with my bare hands in PA if need be.
The odds tell me I need to be hunting out there.
I honestly feel like I should/would be putting down a solid P&Y buck where we hunt in Illinois probably every other or every 3rd year.........in PA I have only SEEN the one I killed last year.
We have roughly 1,000,000 licensed hunters here, probably 3/4 of them still have a "buck" tag come rifle season which is a 2 week 3pts to a side, plus we're gonna kill every button buck that walks by, free-for-all.......vs 2 short shotgun seasons in a state where you'll get made fun of for shooting a 1.5yr old?
There's no comparison that can be made between PA and a state like Illinois or Iowa beyond we both have whitetail deer.
If PA hunters had the mindset of IL hunters...would the hunting be similar after 3-4 years?
Like I said, Antler wise? No doubt they can grow bigger where there are unlimited food resources, good cover, and good genetics....but the number of mature bucks has nothing to do with that, it's all in the hunting season's structure, and the overall attitude of hunting.
The more I think about it, the more Im starting to believe the attitude of the hunting masses is the number one factor into how good the deer hunting is, big bucks speaking...Big picture here, not a single farm, a state or at the very least a county's area.
12-04-2008, 06:38 PM
#54
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: S. Illinois
Posts: 1,325
RE: Is it really that much better??
ORIGINAL: Vabowman
Hunter 59 good response!! now for the rest of you....if you hunt the midwest, then tell me how the deer movement is...Oct, Nov, and Dec....this had nothing to do really with big bucks as to who has them and who doesn't...it has something to do with how well they move, put it this way for example...tonight was the first time I have seen an antlered buck while bowhunting since Nov 13th...I have bowhunted at least 10times or more....in fact I have only seen 6 deer since Nov 13th.. and Im hunting mostly high pop. areas..it's typical for Va every year...does this happen in the midwest?? I realize they are not in every woodot and behind every tree, just tell me how they move through out the season..
Hunter 59 good response!! now for the rest of you....if you hunt the midwest, then tell me how the deer movement is...Oct, Nov, and Dec....this had nothing to do really with big bucks as to who has them and who doesn't...it has something to do with how well they move, put it this way for example...tonight was the first time I have seen an antlered buck while bowhunting since Nov 13th...I have bowhunted at least 10times or more....in fact I have only seen 6 deer since Nov 13th.. and Im hunting mostly high pop. areas..it's typical for Va every year...does this happen in the midwest?? I realize they are not in every woodot and behind every tree, just tell me how they move through out the season..
I have seen about 15 different bucks this year that would score from 125 to 170.
12-04-2008, 06:54 PM
#55
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Where the ducks don't come no more
Posts: 4,420
RE: Is it really that much better??
ORIGINAL: 125py
Lets just say in November if I hunt AM and PM I will average probably seeing 6 different bucks per day. Probably 2 of those will be 2.5 yrs old and score 115 to 125 gross.It is easy in my area to kill deer like thats.I have passed up a 130" 10pt 3.5 yr old probably 5 different times this year and even a few more different 3.5 yr olds.
I have seen about 15 different bucks this year that would score from 125 to 170.
ORIGINAL: Vabowman
Hunter 59 good response!! now for the rest of you....if you hunt the midwest, then tell me how the deer movement is...Oct, Nov, and Dec....this had nothing to do really with big bucks as to who has them and who doesn't...it has something to do with how well they move, put it this way for example...tonight was the first time I have seen an antlered buck while bowhunting since Nov 13th...I have bowhunted at least 10times or more....in fact I have only seen 6 deer since Nov 13th.. and Im hunting mostly high pop. areas..it's typical for Va every year...does this happen in the midwest?? I realize they are not in every woodot and behind every tree, just tell me how they move through out the season..
Hunter 59 good response!! now for the rest of you....if you hunt the midwest, then tell me how the deer movement is...Oct, Nov, and Dec....this had nothing to do really with big bucks as to who has them and who doesn't...it has something to do with how well they move, put it this way for example...tonight was the first time I have seen an antlered buck while bowhunting since Nov 13th...I have bowhunted at least 10times or more....in fact I have only seen 6 deer since Nov 13th.. and Im hunting mostly high pop. areas..it's typical for Va every year...does this happen in the midwest?? I realize they are not in every woodot and behind every tree, just tell me how they move through out the season..
I have seen about 15 different bucks this year that would score from 125 to 170.
Three of those bucks were on one hunt, and Vabowman saw two and chopped one 'monster' that night too.
That said.... either right before or right after dark... standing in fields or on the sides of the road... I've seen probably a dozen this year that would clear 135" and two I know would clear 150" gross.
I haven't even heard of a big buck being killed in this half of the state since the end of MZ season that wasn't being run by dogs or pushed by drivers. During archery and MZ season, we'd check a 125+ at least every other day, if the weather was right we'd check three or four per day... and you don't HAVE to bring your deer to a check station anymore either... so these are just the regulars coming by to say hey and show off.
12-04-2008, 06:55 PM
#56
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Virginia / West Virginia
Posts: 4,906
RE: Is it really that much better??
I can only speak to my experience of 1 trip to IL on a DIY last year. In a week of hunting a farm I had never laid eyes on until I got there, I saw 4 different P&Y bucks for sure, and another couple that were borderline, and a bunch of other nice ones. 1 was a hammer 150"+ ...the biggest buck Ive ever seen. I didn't take a buck that trip, but saw 3-4 bucks a day at least, was waiting for a chance at a book deer. I came darn close. Not outfitted land, not managed land....just regular IL farmland. It was incredible.
In 22yrs of hunting VA & WV...I've seen exactly 1 p&y candidate while on stand.
Think it has anything to do with the location?
I may not be the best hunter in the world, but I certainly ain't no rookie either and have taken some mature bucks over the years. Do we have big deer here, sure - just not nearly as many. Heck, I'm beginning to think they are born with 100" racks out there[8D]
Now...as far as Landon's question...I don't think the deerout there are that much different than we have here in VA, except that they probably have much more good food to eat (at least vs. where I hunt) and are probably more predictable in that fashion. I hunt the mountains of VA where a good acorn crop is about at good as they get, otherwise its browse and laurel.
In 22yrs of hunting VA & WV...I've seen exactly 1 p&y candidate while on stand.
Think it has anything to do with the location?I may not be the best hunter in the world, but I certainly ain't no rookie either and have taken some mature bucks over the years. Do we have big deer here, sure - just not nearly as many. Heck, I'm beginning to think they are born with 100" racks out there
[8D]Now...as far as Landon's question...I don't think the deerout there are that much different than we have here in VA, except that they probably have much more good food to eat (at least vs. where I hunt) and are probably more predictable in that fashion. I hunt the mountains of VA where a good acorn crop is about at good as they get, otherwise its browse and laurel.
12-04-2008, 07:00 PM
#58
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,200
RE: Is it really that much better??
ORIGINAL: Vabowman
Hunter 59 good response!! now for the rest of you....if you hunt the midwest, then tell me how the deer movement is...Oct, Nov, and Dec....this had nothing to do really with big bucks as to who has them and who doesn't...it has something to do with how well they move, put it this way for example...tonight was the first time I have seen an antlered buck while bowhunting since Nov 13th...I have bowhunted at least 10times or more....in fact I have only seen 6 deer since Nov 13th.. and Im hunting mostly high pop. areas..it's typical for Va every year...does this happen in the midwest?? I realize they are not in every woodot and behind every tree, just tell me how they move through out the season..
Hunter 59 good response!! now for the rest of you....if you hunt the midwest, then tell me how the deer movement is...Oct, Nov, and Dec....this had nothing to do really with big bucks as to who has them and who doesn't...it has something to do with how well they move, put it this way for example...tonight was the first time I have seen an antlered buck while bowhunting since Nov 13th...I have bowhunted at least 10times or more....in fact I have only seen 6 deer since Nov 13th.. and Im hunting mostly high pop. areas..it's typical for Va every year...does this happen in the midwest?? I realize they are not in every woodot and behind every tree, just tell me how they move through out the season..
This year was not a good year for deer movement in our area IMO. Even the deer hanging in sheds during the gun season prove that. I still did manage to get a crack at a P&Y class 8 pointer, and saw 3 others that would go over the course of nearly 2 months, however I spent more time on a stand not seeing a single deer than any of my previous years.
In early October I focus around the bean fields and if the corn is cut head there. If the beans are still standing then I am able to see a bunch of deer, but if they are already out then it becomes hard to find the deer. They head to the neighbors food plots and off our land. Towards the end of October I will usually tend to see some bucks cruising through the cut fields (corn more so than beans). The temps are usually very high, and the most activity I see during this time is the first hour of daylight, and the last 15 minutes or so in the afternoon.
The greatest amount of movement I see throughout the year is usually inthe first 2 weeks of Novemeber from about 7 A.M.-8:30 A.M. Our shotgun season rolls in the Fri, Sat, Sun before Thanksgiving and then again the following Thur, Fri, Sat, Sun after Thanksgiving. For the next 2 weeks after this I have found it very difficult to hunt, as every deer in the county has been alerted. Right around Christmas, nearly all hunters are out of the woods again, and if you find what thedeer are eating then you can have very good luck setting up on food sources in the afternoon.
I have hunted all day during the rut before, and I can count onboth hands the amount of deer I have seen between 11 A.M.and 2 P.M.over the last 4 years.
12-04-2008, 07:00 PM
#59
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: HENDERSON KY USA
Posts: 6,634
RE: Is it really that much better??
ORIGINAL: Germ
Matt I would spoon my self to death in Iowa
Here is a great stat, and i hunt some great ground in MI. I am truly blessed IMO. In 2007 in 1 sit I seen 3 mature bucks in KY. In two season in MI I have seen 2
Matt I would spoon my self to death in Iowa
Here is a great stat, and i hunt some great ground in MI. I am truly blessed IMO. In 2007 in 1 sit I seen 3 mature bucks in KY. In two season in MI I have seen 2
And that was on public land.But it is managed.
Here is a buck I have shown many times on here that was killed 15 minutes from the public ground germ is speaking about in the 1960's and this was way before any kind of management for big bucks was being done.This deer shows what food age and genetics will get you.
net, 187 6/8"
