Is it really that much better??
12-04-2008, 05:51 PM
#41
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Where the ducks don't come no more
Posts: 4,420
RE: Is it really that much better??
Here is my question:
Lets go fromyour side Landon acrossto Varina Enon Plantation.... we are talking about someone who is capable with a .308 and no wind being able to shoot a deer in Henrico while standing in Chesterfield (just to put in perspective for y'all exactly how far we are talking here.... about 800 yards of marsh/swamp and river).
We know what kinda action we are seeing on the southside... (little to none). What I want to know... is go across the James to Enon where if I recall correctly there are exactly three people who have permission to hunt (and I know Todd only waterfowl hunts). The place is isolated by high bluffs.... Varina Road, two dense swamps in easementsand the James River.... I'd like to know what sort of deer activity and movement they are experiencing there with little to no pressure or tresspassingand certainly no hounds running rampant?
For everyone wondering.... I don't think I have seen a deer moving on its own during day light hours while hunting in the last ten hunts.... that dates back to the first week of NOVEMBER. Can you imagine hunting (and hunting pretty hard) for a MONTH and not even seeing a damn doe? Welcome to VA... wanna kill deer.... release the hounds.
Lets go fromyour side Landon acrossto Varina Enon Plantation.... we are talking about someone who is capable with a .308 and no wind being able to shoot a deer in Henrico while standing in Chesterfield (just to put in perspective for y'all exactly how far we are talking here.... about 800 yards of marsh/swamp and river).
We know what kinda action we are seeing on the southside... (little to none). What I want to know... is go across the James to Enon where if I recall correctly there are exactly three people who have permission to hunt (and I know Todd only waterfowl hunts). The place is isolated by high bluffs.... Varina Road, two dense swamps in easementsand the James River.... I'd like to know what sort of deer activity and movement they are experiencing there with little to no pressure or tresspassingand certainly no hounds running rampant?
For everyone wondering.... I don't think I have seen a deer moving on its own during day light hours while hunting in the last ten hunts.... that dates back to the first week of NOVEMBER. Can you imagine hunting (and hunting pretty hard) for a MONTH and not even seeing a damn doe? Welcome to VA... wanna kill deer.... release the hounds.
12-04-2008, 05:54 PM
#42
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Dover, PA USA
Posts: 5,497
RE: Is it really that much better??
But look at it this way Matt...how many years have you hunted IL? How many mature bucks have you taken? Which state was your biggest buck from? (I don't know these answers, not loaded questions)
Ok so I killed my biggest buck in PA, the ONLY P&Y deer I have ever seen on the hoof in PA in my life and I killed him........statictical anomoly that was in the wrong place at the wrong time. [8D]
What you also have to realize is that for 4 seasons in IL plus Nebraska I have passed up handfuls of deer that would have been my best to date by far hoping for a gagger........deer I would have emptied my quiver at and lept from my stand to kill with my bare hands in PA if need be.
The odds tell me I need to be hunting out there.
I honestly feel like I should/would be putting down a solid P&Y buck where we hunt in Illinois probably every other or every 3rd year.........in PA I have only SEEN the one I killed last year.
We have roughly 1,000,000 licensed hunters here, probably 3/4 of them still have a "buck" tag come rifle season which is a 2 week 3pts to a side, plus we're gonna kill every button buck that walks by, free-for-all.......vs 2 short shotgun seasons in a state where you'll get made fun of for shooting a 1.5yr old?
There's no comparison that can be made between PA and a state like Illinois or Iowa beyond we both have whitetail deer.
12-04-2008, 05:54 PM
#43
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: PA
Posts: 8,167
RE: Is it really that much better??
Todd, PA is a whole different animal. With a one and your done tag system thats been in place for fifty years.
The only question asked is if you got "your" buck. Any buck ,with over a million hunters management goals didn't exist.
Now we have A.R. to protect small bucks but to keep the piece every doe past spots is killed.
No middle of the road for PA.[:@][:@][:@]
The only question asked is if you got "your" buck. Any buck ,with over a million hunters management goals didn't exist.
Now we have A.R. to protect small bucks but to keep the piece every doe past spots is killed.
No middle of the road for PA.[:@][:@][:@]
12-04-2008, 05:56 PM
#44
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Michigan/Ohio
Posts: 11,682
RE: Is it really that much better??
I am thankful I do not live in VA. Dog hunting would be the death of me. First dog came across my property would be dead, and I would be in Jail. I guess I shouldput a bumper sticker on my Truck. At least I don't hunt in VA, Woof Woof!!!
12-04-2008, 05:58 PM
#45
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Dover, PA USA
Posts: 5,497
RE: Is it really that much better??
Matt do you think this is influenced by the # of big racked bucks on the surrounding private land? Do people hunting the public land in Il. pass on younger- smaller racked bucks because of the potential for something bigger? Do people hunting public land in PA. shoot the first buck they see because of the lack of potential?
But it's more like the feeling of PRESSURE that causes people to shoot the first legal buck they see......they truly believe that if they don't shoot it the next guy over will so THAT is their opportunity for the season.
12-04-2008, 06:03 PM
#46
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location:
Posts: 3,465
RE: Is it really that much better??
ORIGINAL: Matt / PA
Ive hunted Illinois for a total of 6 weeks spread over 4 seasons........I've taken ZERO "mature" bucks. LOL but I've also SEEN literally dozens with no good shot opportunities. Hell I saw a 150-160" 10 pt the first AM of the first day I ever hunted in Illinois on a DIY hunt. LOL To that point in PA I had never seen even one in 20 full seasons.
Ok so I killed my biggest buck in PA, the ONLY P&Y deer I have ever seen on the hoof in PA in my life and I killed him........statictical anomoly that was in the wrong place at the wrong time. [8D]
What you also have to realize is that for 4 seasons in IL plus Nebraska I have passed up handfuls of deer that would have been my best to date by far hoping for a gagger........deer I would have emptied my quiver at and lept from my stand to kill with my bare hands in PA if need be.
The odds tell me I need to be hunting out there.
I honestly feel like I should/would be putting down a solid P&Y buck where we hunt in Illinois probably every other or every 3rd year.........in PA I have only SEEN the one I killed last year.
We have roughly 1,000,000 licensed hunters here, probably 3/4 of them still have a "buck" tag come rifle season which is a 2 week 3pts to a side, plus we're gonna kill every button buck that walks by, free-for-all.......vs 2 short shotgun seasons in a state where you'll get made fun of for shooting a 1.5yr old?
There's no comparison that can be made between PA and a state like Illinois or Iowa beyond we both have whitetail deer.
But look at it this way Matt...how many years have you hunted IL? How many mature bucks have you taken? Which state was your biggest buck from? (I don't know these answers, not loaded questions)
Ok so I killed my biggest buck in PA, the ONLY P&Y deer I have ever seen on the hoof in PA in my life and I killed him........statictical anomoly that was in the wrong place at the wrong time. [8D]
What you also have to realize is that for 4 seasons in IL plus Nebraska I have passed up handfuls of deer that would have been my best to date by far hoping for a gagger........deer I would have emptied my quiver at and lept from my stand to kill with my bare hands in PA if need be.
The odds tell me I need to be hunting out there.
I honestly feel like I should/would be putting down a solid P&Y buck where we hunt in Illinois probably every other or every 3rd year.........in PA I have only SEEN the one I killed last year.
We have roughly 1,000,000 licensed hunters here, probably 3/4 of them still have a "buck" tag come rifle season which is a 2 week 3pts to a side, plus we're gonna kill every button buck that walks by, free-for-all.......vs 2 short shotgun seasons in a state where you'll get made fun of for shooting a 1.5yr old?
There's no comparison that can be made between PA and a state like Illinois or Iowa beyond we both have whitetail deer.
If PA hunters had the mindset of IL hunters...would the hunting be similar after 3-4 years?
Like I said, Antler wise? No doubt they can grow bigger where there are unlimited food resources, good cover, and good genetics....but the number of mature bucks has nothing to do with that, it's all in the hunting season's structure, and the overall attitude of hunting.
The more I think about it, the more Im starting to believe the attitude of the hunting masses is the number one factor into how good the deer hunting is, big bucks speaking...Big picture here, not a single farm, a state or at the very least a county's area.
12-04-2008, 06:04 PM
#47
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Plum Boro, PA
Posts: 1,423
RE: Is it really that much better??
ORIGINAL: Matt / PA
Ive hunted Illinois for a total of 6 weeks spread over 4 seasons........I've taken ZERO "mature" bucks. LOL but I've also SEEN literally dozens with no good shot opportunities. Hell I saw a 150-160" 10 pt the first AM of the first day I ever hunted in Illinois on a DIY hunt. LOL To that point in PA I had never seen even one in 20 full seasons.
Ok so I killed my biggest buck in PA, the ONLY P&Y deer I have ever seen on the hoof in PA in my life and I killed him........statictical anomoly that was in the wrong place at the wrong time. [8D]
What you also have to realize is that for 4 seasons in IL plus Nebraska I have passed up handfuls of deer that would have been my best to date by far hoping for a gagger........deer I would have emptied my quiver at and lept from my stand to kill with my bare hands in PA if need be.
The odds tell me I need to be hunting out there.
I honestly feel like I should/would be putting down a solid P&Y buck where we hunt in Illinois probably every other or every 3rd year.........in PA I have only SEEN the one I killed last year.
We have roughly 1,000,000 licensed hunters here, probably 3/4 of them still have a "buck" tag come rifle season which is a 2 week 3pts to a side, plus we're gonna kill every button buck that walks by, free-for-all.......vs 2 short shotgun seasons in a state where you'll get made fun of for shooting a 1.5yr old?
There's no comparison that can be made between PA and a state like Illinois or Iowa beyond we both have whitetail deer.
But look at it this way Matt...how many years have you hunted IL? How many mature bucks have you taken? Which state was your biggest buck from? (I don't know these answers, not loaded questions)
Ok so I killed my biggest buck in PA, the ONLY P&Y deer I have ever seen on the hoof in PA in my life and I killed him........statictical anomoly that was in the wrong place at the wrong time. [8D]
What you also have to realize is that for 4 seasons in IL plus Nebraska I have passed up handfuls of deer that would have been my best to date by far hoping for a gagger........deer I would have emptied my quiver at and lept from my stand to kill with my bare hands in PA if need be.
The odds tell me I need to be hunting out there.
I honestly feel like I should/would be putting down a solid P&Y buck where we hunt in Illinois probably every other or every 3rd year.........in PA I have only SEEN the one I killed last year.
We have roughly 1,000,000 licensed hunters here, probably 3/4 of them still have a "buck" tag come rifle season which is a 2 week 3pts to a side, plus we're gonna kill every button buck that walks by, free-for-all.......vs 2 short shotgun seasons in a state where you'll get made fun of for shooting a 1.5yr old?
There's no comparison that can be made between PA and a state like Illinois or Iowa beyond we both have whitetail deer.
12-04-2008, 06:10 PM
#48
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: PA
Posts: 8,167
RE: Is it really that much better??
The Ph of the lands are day and night different.The farmers in PA must lime their fields regularly yet line stone is mined in the mid-west.
Take a look at at a 2 1/2 year old deer from PA and one from Iowa.[:-]
Take a look at at a 2 1/2 year old deer from PA and one from Iowa.[:-]
12-04-2008, 06:16 PM
#49
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location:
Posts: 2,139
RE: Is it really that much better??
A while back someone posted a p&y or b&c chart showing state by state #'s and records. One thing I noticed was that almost every states' top end bucks were way up there score wise. that made me wonder - is it really the location or is it the management practices and hunter additudes about what they shoot that really is the biggest difference between areas. Take Mi for example. What if all those hunters decided to hold out for a 125" buck and let the little ones walk. Would Mi be just as good as Il.? Or at least much better than it is?
12-04-2008, 06:18 PM
#50
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Michigan/Ohio
Posts: 11,682
RE: Is it really that much better??
ORIGINAL: magicman54494
A while back someone posted a p&y or b&c chart showing state by state #'s and records. One thing I noticed was that almost every states' top end bucks were way up there score wise. that made me wonder - is it really the location or is it the management practices and hunter additudes about what they shoot that really is the biggest difference between areas. Take Mi for example. What if all those hunters decided to hold out for a 125" buck and let the little ones walk. Would Mi be just as good as Il.? Or at least much better than it is?
A while back someone posted a p&y or b&c chart showing state by state #'s and records. One thing I noticed was that almost every states' top end bucks were way up there score wise. that made me wonder - is it really the location or is it the management practices and hunter additudes about what they shoot that really is the biggest difference between areas. Take Mi for example. What if all those hunters decided to hold out for a 125" buck and let the little ones walk. Would Mi be just as good as Il.? Or at least much better than it is?