Is it really that much better??
12-05-2008, 05:58 AM
#151
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,102
RE: Is it really that much better??
I actually read through all the responses,which took a while.Matt/Pa's original response and follow up responses come closest to mirroring my home hunting circumstances in NY.Throw in next to no agriculture,the majority of the public land being mountains where no logging is permitted (old over mature forest where there is no cover and browse other than cyclical mast crop)couple that with an exploding coyote population and huge second home ownership of property where the New York city second homeowners are not letting you on their land.The last of my whining is the typical 4 to 5 weeks of gun and muzzleloading pressure that our deer get and through our tag system the ability to take more than one buck.That translates in to hunting that sucks,unless you have access to big blocks of low land private property that happens to have all the necessary elements to attract and hold game.
Getting back to the originall question asked the most important factor that influences deer movement is pressure,the less pressure in whatever form that takes the more day time movement.Additionally if you happen to have a state with a better management plan.One buck and your done for the season killing bucks,no firearms season during the rut,shorter fire arms seasons,low hunter density etc. that translates in to more older age class ofbucks and a more defined and intense rut.Which translates in to greater competition for breeding and a much more active and visable buck population.
This isn't rocket science.I hunt out of state every year,exclusively on public ground and the worst year I have ever had there is better than the best year I have ever had home.It has every thing to do with all the factors I previously mentioned.
Getting back to the originall question asked the most important factor that influences deer movement is pressure,the less pressure in whatever form that takes the more day time movement.Additionally if you happen to have a state with a better management plan.One buck and your done for the season killing bucks,no firearms season during the rut,shorter fire arms seasons,low hunter density etc. that translates in to more older age class ofbucks and a more defined and intense rut.Which translates in to greater competition for breeding and a much more active and visable buck population.
This isn't rocket science.I hunt out of state every year,exclusively on public ground and the worst year I have ever had there is better than the best year I have ever had home.It has every thing to do with all the factors I previously mentioned.
12-05-2008, 06:04 AM
#152
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location:
Posts: 3,465
RE: Is it really that much better??
ORIGINAL: GMMAT
That's BS.
You lost by a LOT (if you'd play by the rules you agreed to). I think you'll end up losing by 500", at least.
You can not argue the math. For those who don't know Jeff and I had a little contest this year. I took 10 hunters from "non" location states, Jeff took ten hunters from "location" states. I lost, LOL but not by much.
You lost by a LOT (if you'd play by the rules you agreed to). I think you'll end up losing by 500", at least.
12-05-2008, 06:14 AM
#154
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Southeast, Va
Posts: 3,965
RE: Is it really that much better??
you guys want to talk pressure??? try to hunt after 100 hounds and beagles have been dropped on 5,000 acs or 1500 acs twice a week starting in Nov and see how many deer ya see moving about without them...pressure here comes from dogs pushing deer for 7 weeks straight in most cases 3-6 times a week... so here in Va the gun season is pretty much void of bowhunting...Im talking about the archery season in those states....do the deer move more freely??
12-05-2008, 06:18 AM
#155
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Northwest suburbs, Illinois
Posts: 2,075
RE: Is it really that much better??
ORIGINAL: davidmil
So where are you going in Iowa? Why aren't you making this trip to Maine, or NY, or Rhode Island? Heck, how about Indiana or Vermont? People can talk all they want, we know why people go to Iowa, it's not because they're better hunter there. It's not becauses the price is right. Why are you going to Iowa. Yes Dorothy, the grass is a different color there.
ORIGINAL: dukemichaels
I'd also like to note that within the next year I'm gonna try to make a trip to Kansas or Iowa to hunt whitetail.
Now.. I'm not stupid enough to point at my globe and say.. "Iowa is great and full of big bucks.. I'll just go here". And point to anywheresville Iowa.
I'm gonna research. Ask Q's to those who live and hunt there.. and get the best knowledge I can of that state... that region.. that county.. that township I want to be.
I don't want to go to Iowa. I want to go to a piece of heaven in Iowa.
Does that make more sense for some of you.
I'd also like to note that within the next year I'm gonna try to make a trip to Kansas or Iowa to hunt whitetail.
Now.. I'm not stupid enough to point at my globe and say.. "Iowa is great and full of big bucks.. I'll just go here". And point to anywheresville Iowa.
I'm gonna research. Ask Q's to those who live and hunt there.. and get the best knowledge I can of that state... that region.. that county.. that township I want to be.
I don't want to go to Iowa. I want to go to a piece of heaven in Iowa.
Does that make more sense for some of you.
If I was going to New Jersey.. I wouldn't just say I'm going to New Jersey.. I'd find the town I'm going to in New Jersey... and then right down to the farm.
Again.. I'm not saying Illinois, Iowa, Kansas, WI, Ky, OH, IN.. are not greater states to hunt because of there gene pools. What I'm saying is.. Illinois is NOT at all like the western portion of the state. And it doesn't matter what state you hunt.. it matters to your location within that state that you can hunt.
12-05-2008, 06:26 AM
#156
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Northwest suburbs, Illinois
Posts: 2,075
RE: Is it really that much better??
ORIGINAL: Germ
Anybody read the stats from Mr. Eberhart P & Y entries vs number of hunters
Wisconsin 506 249,644
Illinois 427 120,000
Iowa 227 47,100
Kansas 135 21,080
Michigan 70 310,000
The average score of the bucks from the other states are also 15 inches larger, because taking a P&Y qualifying buck in those states is just not a big deal.
You can not argue the math. For those who don't know Jeff and I had a little contest this year. I took 10 hunters from "non" location states, Jeff took ten hunters from "location" states. I lost, LOL but not by much.
Anybody read the stats from Mr. Eberhart P & Y entries vs number of hunters
Wisconsin 506 249,644
Illinois 427 120,000
Iowa 227 47,100
Kansas 135 21,080
Michigan 70 310,000
The average score of the bucks from the other states are also 15 inches larger, because taking a P&Y qualifying buck in those states is just not a big deal.
You can not argue the math. For those who don't know Jeff and I had a little contest this year. I took 10 hunters from "non" location states, Jeff took ten hunters from "location" states. I lost, LOL but not by much.
12-05-2008, 06:33 AM
#157
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 7,208
RE: Is it really that much better??
I actually read through all the responses,which took a while.Matt/Pa's original response and follow up responses come closest to mirroring my home hunting circumstances in NY.Throw in next to no agriculture,the majority of the public land being mountains where no logging is permitted (old over mature forest where there is no cover and browse other than cyclical mast crop)couple that with an exploding coyote population and huge second home ownership of property where the New York city second homeowners are not letting you on their land.The last of my whining is the typical 4 to 5 weeks of gun and muzzleloading pressure that our deer get and through our tag system the ability to take more than one buck.That translates in to hunting that sucks,unless you have access to big blocks of low land private property that happens to have all the necessary elements to attract and hold game.
Getting back to the originall question asked the most important factor that influences deer movement is pressure,the less pressure in whatever form that takes the more day time movement.Additionally if you happen to have a state with a better management plan.One buck and your done for the season killing bucks,no firearms season during the rut,shorter fire arms seasons,low hunter density etc. that translates in to more older age class ofbucks and a more defined and intense rut.Which translates in to greater competition for breeding and a much more active and visable buck population.
This isn't rocket science.I hunt out of state every year,exclusively on public ground and the worst year I have ever had there is better than the best year I have ever had home.It has every thing to do with all the factors I previously mentioned.
Getting back to the originall question asked the most important factor that influences deer movement is pressure,the less pressure in whatever form that takes the more day time movement.Additionally if you happen to have a state with a better management plan.One buck and your done for the season killing bucks,no firearms season during the rut,shorter fire arms seasons,low hunter density etc. that translates in to more older age class ofbucks and a more defined and intense rut.Which translates in to greater competition for breeding and a much more active and visable buck population.
This isn't rocket science.I hunt out of state every year,exclusively on public ground and the worst year I have ever had there is better than the best year I have ever had home.It has every thing to do with all the factors I previously mentioned.
12-05-2008, 06:35 AM
#158
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Southeast, Va
Posts: 3,965
RE: Is it really that much better??
well again, there is no issue here in Va about whether or not we have big bucks...we do, and we have them in almost every county in the state, some counties have more, but overall, Va has big bucks state wide...I can hunt here in the eastern portion and I also hunt in the western portion, and I still can't get it done with a bow!! It's not for a lack of big bucks, it's not for a lack of effort, it's simply ME not being good enough to out smart them..so what Im trying to do is learn as much as i can about big buck behavior....and Im trying figure out if reading an article that a guy in IL or IA writes about big bucks is going to help me at all...does it apply to Va?? Are the deer using funnels, and draws, and "doe" bedding areas here in Va?? or am I wasting my time listening to these guys...keep in mind, I have hunted Va for 20 yrs and have taken very good deer with the gun, a few decent bucks with the bow, but I have P&Y right under my nose every year and can't even lay my eyes on one...Im trying to learn...
12-05-2008, 06:43 AM
#159
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Michigan/Ohio
Posts: 11,682
RE: Is it really that much better??
ORIGINAL: GMMAT
That's BS.
You lost by a LOT (if you'd play by the rules you agreed to). I think you'll end up losing by 500", at least.
You can not argue the math. For those who don't know Jeff and I had a little contest this year. I took 10 hunters from "non" location states, Jeff took ten hunters from "location" states. I lost, LOL but not by much.
You lost by a LOT (if you'd play by the rules you agreed to). I think you'll end up losing by 500", at least.
