DID I HIT HIM????....HES HIT (update pg 3)
11-13-2008, 07:39 PM
#21
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: HENDERSON KY USA
Posts: 6,634
RE: DID I HIT HIM????
ORIGINAL: Dopler
You came to the right guy for this argument ;-).
The speed of sound is around 767 mph, an average carbon arrow travels at around 200 mph.Meaning that the arrow will travel about 5 of those 17yards before the deer hears the string. In the remaining 12 yards, the deer will have approximately 1 tenth of a second to react to the noise. Imaginehaving 1/10th of a second to react to a surprising noise?
I read a very interestingarticle several years ago by a wildlife biologist and avid hunterabout deer string jump.He did tests on deer and tested the deers reflexes. The conclusion of the study was that once a deer is alert, meaning it's looking at something that's spooked it or it's heard something that has it on hightened alert it can react to sound or danger in an instant and can potentially jump the string atbowhunting ranges; however, if the deer is in anormal pattern, like feeding or walking and it has not yet identified a threat,then the deers brain has to first identify the threat and then engage flight mode which takes up to a second, enough time for any arrow to strike its mark at 17 yards. It made sense to me and I'vefound that to be the casefrom my own observations. If this buck was on a doe, oblivious tothe hunterspresence,now way is it jumping the string at 17 yards. He also saidin the articlethat there is a distance where string jump is impossible even for an alert deer, I think it was 10 yards but I forgot for sure.
ORIGINAL: TFOX
I beg to differ on this,most deer that duck the string do it less than 20 yards.
Plus,there has yet to be a bow that shoots faster than the speed of sound.
I beg to differ on this,most deer that duck the string do it less than 20 yards.
Plus,there has yet to be a bow that shoots faster than the speed of sound.
The speed of sound is around 767 mph, an average carbon arrow travels at around 200 mph.Meaning that the arrow will travel about 5 of those 17yards before the deer hears the string. In the remaining 12 yards, the deer will have approximately 1 tenth of a second to react to the noise. Imaginehaving 1/10th of a second to react to a surprising noise?
I read a very interestingarticle several years ago by a wildlife biologist and avid hunterabout deer string jump.He did tests on deer and tested the deers reflexes. The conclusion of the study was that once a deer is alert, meaning it's looking at something that's spooked it or it's heard something that has it on hightened alert it can react to sound or danger in an instant and can potentially jump the string atbowhunting ranges; however, if the deer is in anormal pattern, like feeding or walking and it has not yet identified a threat,then the deers brain has to first identify the threat and then engage flight mode which takes up to a second, enough time for any arrow to strike its mark at 17 yards. It made sense to me and I'vefound that to be the casefrom my own observations. If this buck was on a doe, oblivious tothe hunterspresence,now way is it jumping the string at 17 yards. He also saidin the articlethat there is a distance where string jump is impossible even for an alert deer, I think it was 10 yards but I forgot for sure.
I like to call it the BOO factor,if I yell boo right behind you,you will flinch,if I am standing 30 yards away,you will most likely just turn and look.A deer reacts the same way.imo
Have you ever seen a deerjust stand there when a rifle was fired within a couple hundred yards and just go back to feeding? I have.
OH,and I am not arguing,just saw a good discussion to be had.
Sorry for the hijack.
11-13-2008, 08:28 PM
#22
Typical Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2005
Location: SE PA
Posts: 657
RE: DID I HIT HIM????
So after giving he about three hours we went back to the spot he was standing. I found the arrow about 15-20 yards down the hill. It didn’t have that much blood on it but the 2 rage blades were missing. There were some drops of blood going down the hill to the point where he stopped and flicked his tail. From there he made a hard left and started spraying blood for 75-100 yards. It was bright red and DID have some bubbles in it. Unfortunately, the blood just vanished. He could have done one of 2 things. Stayed on the bench he was on which would take him onto a goat path behind some houses. Or dropped down and headed to thicker cover.
I think I may have caught the shoulder and deflected it back into the lungs. What does bright red blood with some scattered bubbles entail. How far could a deer hit like this travel, and will he definitely die???
I think I may have caught the shoulder and deflected it back into the lungs. What does bright red blood with some scattered bubbles entail. How far could a deer hit like this travel, and will he definitely die???
11-13-2008, 08:34 PM
#23
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Monroe County, IL
Posts: 1,188
RE: DID I HIT HIM????
Sounds like a lung hit but maybe a single lung. Few deer have survived but chances are slim. My thought is give it till the am and go back out hoping you did not jump him already. If you did not jump him then I don't think he's too far from where you left off.. IMO, if what your saying is correct thats a dead deer..
11-13-2008, 08:38 PM
#25
Fork Horn
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 242
RE: DID I HIT HIM????
Sounds like a dead deer. You must have caught some bone. My 2blade rage also was missing both razors and I had caught one rib and also the bottom part of the vertebrate. Bright red with bubbles equals good news. Post pics in the morning when you recover him.
11-14-2008, 08:36 AM
#28
Fork Horn
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location:
Posts: 306
RE: DID I HIT HIM????
I am in agreement that it is LESS LIKELY for a calm deer to jump a string than an alert one but I believe it to be more than opinion that deer will jump the string less than 20 yards,calm or otherwise than at further distances.I have only had it happen once and it was about 7 yards,but it was a very alert deer to my presence.[:'(]
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You make some good points T-Fox. Lots of times I think I've seen everything there is in the woods and then I see something that defies my understanding of nature and normal deer activity. We all know that deer jumping a string isn't that at all, the deer does not see the arrow, it's simply dropping to the ground to load thelegs muscles for a quick bounding escape and in doing so, it ducks the arrow.I think the x-factor for a deer to jump a string isthe deers anticipation of the shot. When you shot at the deer at 7 yards and he ducked, I think you'd find that it started to drop a split second before you punched the release, that's the only way he'd be able to get out of the way of a speeding arrow at that range. I don't think range has anything to do with it as some guys suggested that longer ranges have less odds of string shot.I think it's more likely that a deer at 40 yards will duck the string if he is spooked but also heis less likelytohear the bow go off andalso is less likely to have detected the hunter at that range too.
I'm looking forward to hearingan update on this deer. Ihope that glew has found this deer already but I wish he were using a fixed head instead of the Rage that shedall of itsblades as soon as it found bone. Even though theRage head lost it's baldes on entry, I think he still might find it if the penetration was good enough. Even a field tip will kill them if the goods are hit.
[/quote]
You make some good points T-Fox. Lots of times I think I've seen everything there is in the woods and then I see something that defies my understanding of nature and normal deer activity. We all know that deer jumping a string isn't that at all, the deer does not see the arrow, it's simply dropping to the ground to load thelegs muscles for a quick bounding escape and in doing so, it ducks the arrow.I think the x-factor for a deer to jump a string isthe deers anticipation of the shot. When you shot at the deer at 7 yards and he ducked, I think you'd find that it started to drop a split second before you punched the release, that's the only way he'd be able to get out of the way of a speeding arrow at that range. I don't think range has anything to do with it as some guys suggested that longer ranges have less odds of string shot.I think it's more likely that a deer at 40 yards will duck the string if he is spooked but also heis less likelytohear the bow go off andalso is less likely to have detected the hunter at that range too.
I'm looking forward to hearingan update on this deer. Ihope that glew has found this deer already but I wish he were using a fixed head instead of the Rage that shedall of itsblades as soon as it found bone. Even though theRage head lost it's baldes on entry, I think he still might find it if the penetration was good enough. Even a field tip will kill them if the goods are hit.
11-14-2008, 08:52 AM
#30
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location:
Posts: 7,571
RE: DID I HIT HIM????
Unless he was looking at you or aware of your presence, he can't jump the string at just 17 yards unless you're shooting a recurve or long bow--
Bright crimson blood could also mean muscle hit. And yes, you mightfind a few bubles in it.
Tail flickering like that though usually means he is pretty sick. Which would mean more of a liver/stomach/intestine hit. I think I'd go on that assumption mainly because it is real tough to be able to decipher blood color with wounds with great accuracy.
If you can not absolutely find blood, then I'd really suggest getting friends together andstart circling looking for blood. Start in close a few yards and gradually work your way out. If that doesn't work, then grid search.