What's wrong with this POV?
08-11-2008, 08:06 AM
#92
Dominant Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location:
Posts: 21,043
RE: What's wrong with this POV?
If that's the case. gutshot....it's my issue, then.
When the author talks about "all things being equal"......"I" simply assumed he meant the same bow.
Again.....MY issue.
When the author talks about "all things being equal"......"I" simply assumed he meant the same bow.
Again.....MY issue.
08-11-2008, 08:07 AM
#94
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 5,716
RE: What's wrong with this POV?
As has always been the case with archery - fads make the bowhunting world turn. The newest fad is the return to heavy arrows, feathers, trad bows, etc... Faster was always better - at least until we got to the point where most manufacturers can't make them go any faster. Now that they've topped out the speed game - heavier is magically better (again).
Everybody who has ever shot a deeris a self-proclaimed "expert" in this field. Why, you ask? Because they have the results to prove it. They have a bloody arrow weighing ________ grains, and a deer carcass that's a testament to their arrow's lethality.
Same As Others
Theproblem here, is that a lot of the opinions being floated on this subjectare largely uninformed as to the polar extremes.The self-proclaimed "authorities on the subject"have never visited the land that is two standard deviations from the mean. If you've never fired a 200-grain arrow into a deer... Or never even fired a 200 grain arrow(period) - do you really have any real-world knowledge to draw upon? Can you REALLY tell us what will happen? Is there an agenda?Is it mere speculation?
I'd argue the latter.
Last year, when I told you guys that I was hunting deer with a 5.5 gpi arrow at sub-300 grains, and approaching 400 feet per second - you'd have thought the world was ending. Well, we all know how that story ended. I set out to prove a point, and I did it.
The point here is - pay no attention to the bell curve.
Manufacturers are always angling, both explicitly and implicitly - through their advertising, through their people - to shuffle people into the hump of the curve, which is where THEY like to live and dominate. The more narrow the curve, the easier it is to target their demographics andmax out theirsales numbers. Narrowing the bell curve allows manufacturers to focus their sales with a smaller product basket, which gives them a better economy of scale, and enormous profit margins. Furthermore - certain products (like heavy arrows) give them less headaches from a warranty/liability standpoint. Don't think for one second that they do what they do with your best interests in mind. It's all about assets and liabilities. Whether you believe it or not, to them, you are nothing more than an outstandingliability.
Even when you see the appearance of "impartiality," perhaps in the context of a magazine article (like the one Jeff referenced)- reader beware. Most authors are very well-connected in the archery world, and have (or want to have) their hands in a lot of different pockets. There's always an agenda being pushed, or a back being scratched. Believe it.
It's all about the Benjamins, baby.
Falling into the bell curve, however, does nothing for you - the consumer. It just means that you're doing what they want you to do. You are making their life easier.
Let's pretend for one second that you decide to be your own dog and stray from the pack. What happens then? Well, the more elongated the bell curve (as more peopledeviate from the average),the WIDER range of products that must be available to accommodate an increasing demand for a wider variety of products (heavy AND light arrows). It's HARDER and less profitable to be a seller, but the buyer is given more latitude to deviate from the "same as others" category. Manufacturers are forced to innovate, increase tolerances, and make better products. You force their hand.
The King's message for today: Life as a consumer is a constant battle - and everybody has an agenda. You just can't lose sight of the forest for the trees, and NEVER be afraid to deviate from the mean. You do the rest of the world a favor everytime you do.
Everybody who has ever shot a deeris a self-proclaimed "expert" in this field. Why, you ask? Because they have the results to prove it. They have a bloody arrow weighing ________ grains, and a deer carcass that's a testament to their arrow's lethality.
Same As Others
Theproblem here, is that a lot of the opinions being floated on this subjectare largely uninformed as to the polar extremes.The self-proclaimed "authorities on the subject"have never visited the land that is two standard deviations from the mean. If you've never fired a 200-grain arrow into a deer... Or never even fired a 200 grain arrow(period) - do you really have any real-world knowledge to draw upon? Can you REALLY tell us what will happen? Is there an agenda?Is it mere speculation?
I'd argue the latter.
Last year, when I told you guys that I was hunting deer with a 5.5 gpi arrow at sub-300 grains, and approaching 400 feet per second - you'd have thought the world was ending. Well, we all know how that story ended. I set out to prove a point, and I did it.
The point here is - pay no attention to the bell curve.
Manufacturers are always angling, both explicitly and implicitly - through their advertising, through their people - to shuffle people into the hump of the curve, which is where THEY like to live and dominate. The more narrow the curve, the easier it is to target their demographics andmax out theirsales numbers. Narrowing the bell curve allows manufacturers to focus their sales with a smaller product basket, which gives them a better economy of scale, and enormous profit margins. Furthermore - certain products (like heavy arrows) give them less headaches from a warranty/liability standpoint. Don't think for one second that they do what they do with your best interests in mind. It's all about assets and liabilities. Whether you believe it or not, to them, you are nothing more than an outstandingliability.
Even when you see the appearance of "impartiality," perhaps in the context of a magazine article (like the one Jeff referenced)- reader beware. Most authors are very well-connected in the archery world, and have (or want to have) their hands in a lot of different pockets. There's always an agenda being pushed, or a back being scratched. Believe it.
It's all about the Benjamins, baby.
Falling into the bell curve, however, does nothing for you - the consumer. It just means that you're doing what they want you to do. You are making their life easier.
Let's pretend for one second that you decide to be your own dog and stray from the pack. What happens then? Well, the more elongated the bell curve (as more peopledeviate from the average),the WIDER range of products that must be available to accommodate an increasing demand for a wider variety of products (heavy AND light arrows). It's HARDER and less profitable to be a seller, but the buyer is given more latitude to deviate from the "same as others" category. Manufacturers are forced to innovate, increase tolerances, and make better products. You force their hand.
The King's message for today: Life as a consumer is a constant battle - and everybody has an agenda. You just can't lose sight of the forest for the trees, and NEVER be afraid to deviate from the mean. You do the rest of the world a favor everytime you do.
08-11-2008, 08:13 AM
#95
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Heaven is my home, temporarily residing in WNY :)
Posts: 6,679
RE: What's wrong with this POV?
ORIGINAL: quiksilver
As has always been the case with archery - fads make the bowhunting world turn. The newest fad is the return to heavy arrows, feathers, trad bows, etc... Faster was always better - at least until we got to the point where most manufacturers can't make them go any faster. Now that they've topped out the speed game - heavier is magically better (again).
Everybody who has ever shot a deeris a self-proclaimed "expert" in this field. Why, you ask? Because they have the results to prove it. They have a bloody arrow weighing ________ grains, and a deer carcass that's a testament to their arrow's lethality.
Same As Others
Theproblem here, is that a lot of the opinions being floated on this subjectare largely uninformed as to the polar extremes.The self-proclaimed "authorities on the subject"have never visited the land that is two standard deviations from the mean. If you've never fired a 200-grain arrow into a deer... Or never even fired a 200 grain arrow(period) - do you really have any real-world knowledge to draw upon? Can you REALLY tell us what will happen? Is there an agenda?Is it mere speculation?
I'd argue the latter.
Last year, when I told you guys that I was hunting deer with a 5.5 gpi arrow at sub-300 grains, and approaching 400 feet per second - you'd have thought the world was ending. Well, we all know how that story ended. I set out to prove a point, and I did it.
The point here is - pay no attention to the bell curve.
Manufacturers are always angling, both explicitly and implicitly - through their advertising, through their people - to shuffle people into the hump of the curve, which is where THEY like to live and dominate. The more narrow the curve, the easier it is to target their demographics andmax out theirsales numbers. Narrowing the bell curve allows manufacturers to focus their sales with a smaller product basket, which gives them a better economy of scale, and enormous profit margins. Furthermore - certain products (like heavy arrows) give them less headaches from a warranty/liability standpoint. Don't think for one second that they do what they do with your best interests in mind. It's all about assets and liabilities. You, whether you believe it or not - are a liability.
It's all about the Benjamins, baby.
Falling into the bell curve, however, does nothing for you - the consumer. It just means that you're doing what they want you to do. You are making their life easier.
Let's pretend for one second that you decide to be your own dog and stray from the pack. What happens then? Well, the more elongated the bell curve (as more peopledeviate from the average),the WIDER range of products that must be available to accommodate an increasing demand for a wider variety of products (heavy AND light arrows). It's HARDER and less profitable to be a seller, but the buyer is given more latitude to deviate from the "same as others" category. Manufacturers are forced to innovate, increase tolerances, and make better products. You force their hand.
The King's message for today: Life as a consumer is a constant battle - and everybody has an agenda. You just can't lose sight of the forest for the trees, and NEVER be afraid to deviate from the mean. You do the rest of the world a favor everytime you do.
As has always been the case with archery - fads make the bowhunting world turn. The newest fad is the return to heavy arrows, feathers, trad bows, etc... Faster was always better - at least until we got to the point where most manufacturers can't make them go any faster. Now that they've topped out the speed game - heavier is magically better (again).
Everybody who has ever shot a deeris a self-proclaimed "expert" in this field. Why, you ask? Because they have the results to prove it. They have a bloody arrow weighing ________ grains, and a deer carcass that's a testament to their arrow's lethality.
Same As Others
Theproblem here, is that a lot of the opinions being floated on this subjectare largely uninformed as to the polar extremes.The self-proclaimed "authorities on the subject"have never visited the land that is two standard deviations from the mean. If you've never fired a 200-grain arrow into a deer... Or never even fired a 200 grain arrow(period) - do you really have any real-world knowledge to draw upon? Can you REALLY tell us what will happen? Is there an agenda?Is it mere speculation?
I'd argue the latter.
Last year, when I told you guys that I was hunting deer with a 5.5 gpi arrow at sub-300 grains, and approaching 400 feet per second - you'd have thought the world was ending. Well, we all know how that story ended. I set out to prove a point, and I did it.
The point here is - pay no attention to the bell curve.
Manufacturers are always angling, both explicitly and implicitly - through their advertising, through their people - to shuffle people into the hump of the curve, which is where THEY like to live and dominate. The more narrow the curve, the easier it is to target their demographics andmax out theirsales numbers. Narrowing the bell curve allows manufacturers to focus their sales with a smaller product basket, which gives them a better economy of scale, and enormous profit margins. Furthermore - certain products (like heavy arrows) give them less headaches from a warranty/liability standpoint. Don't think for one second that they do what they do with your best interests in mind. It's all about assets and liabilities. You, whether you believe it or not - are a liability.
It's all about the Benjamins, baby.
Falling into the bell curve, however, does nothing for you - the consumer. It just means that you're doing what they want you to do. You are making their life easier.
Let's pretend for one second that you decide to be your own dog and stray from the pack. What happens then? Well, the more elongated the bell curve (as more peopledeviate from the average),the WIDER range of products that must be available to accommodate an increasing demand for a wider variety of products (heavy AND light arrows). It's HARDER and less profitable to be a seller, but the buyer is given more latitude to deviate from the "same as others" category. Manufacturers are forced to innovate, increase tolerances, and make better products. You force their hand.
The King's message for today: Life as a consumer is a constant battle - and everybody has an agenda. You just can't lose sight of the forest for the trees, and NEVER be afraid to deviate from the mean. You do the rest of the world a favor everytime you do.
hence the case for ....dare I say it ...... scent lok [8D]
08-11-2008, 08:16 AM
#96
Dominant Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location:
Posts: 21,043
RE: What's wrong with this POV?
Hey Fran.....
Do you see a day when mfr's tout "momentum produced" i.l.o. IBO speeds?
If so....how far are we from that point?
isn't that the ONLY way "they" can produce numbers to dispel your bow's "efficiency"?
Do you see a day when mfr's tout "momentum produced" i.l.o. IBO speeds?
If so....how far are we from that point?
isn't that the ONLY way "they" can produce numbers to dispel your bow's "efficiency"?
08-11-2008, 08:19 AM
#97
Typical Buck
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location:
Posts: 546
RE: What's wrong with this POV?
ORIGINAL: PreacherTony
that is SO unlike him .....[8D]
ORIGINAL: gutshot
Jeff you have analyzed the crap out of this one.
Jeff you have analyzed the crap out of this one.
This is the worst thread in a while. Just another "whats wrong with this" Post from jeff. ...........Unbelivable...................
08-11-2008, 08:21 AM
#98
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Michigan/Ohio
Posts: 11,682
RE: What's wrong with this POV?
Theproblem here, is that a lot of the opinions being floated on this subjectare largely uninformed as to the polar extremes.The self-proclaimed "authorities on the subject"have never visited the land that is two standard deviations from the mean. If you've never fired a 200-grain arrow into a deer... Or never even fired a 200 grain arrow(period) - do you really have any real-world knowledge to draw upon? Can you REALLY tell us what will happen? Is there an agenda?Is it mere speculation?
Eli Calaway(SP?) once said "You cannot argue with Physics"
08-11-2008, 08:21 AM
#99
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 5,716
RE: What's wrong with this POV?
I see the word "momentum" being floated a lot more often these days - depite nobody having a blessed clue what it is or how to calculate it. It's really kinda comical.
All I know is that the whole concept of "light arrows" scares the living **** out of the bow manufacturers.
All I know is that the whole concept of "light arrows" scares the living **** out of the bow manufacturers.
08-11-2008, 08:23 AM
#100
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Michigan/Ohio
Posts: 11,682