Deer & Deer Hunting article on lunar rut predictions!
08-08-2008, 10:40 AM
#1
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 267
Deer & Deer Hunting article on lunar rut predictions!
I just read through this article on lunar rut predictions and im not sure i believe what was said. It is stating that the seeking phase should kick off on nov. 13 for a couple days followed buy the chasing phase, and then off to the breeding phase will be nov. 18-26. I know these are just predictions on when the rut should be, how many of you actually think this is an accurate time table? I have been hunting for 10 years now in wisconsin and have taken most of my bucks in late oct, early november! Its just hard for me to believe what was said in this article!
08-08-2008, 11:36 AM
#2
Typical Buck
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location:
Posts: 565
RE: Deer & Deer Hunting article on lunar rut predictions!
I think a few things about the lunar table...
#1 Many hunters and outdoorsmen trust it and therefore plan their hunting/fishing techniques and strategies around it.
#2 Many don't give the moon any consideration whatsoever.
#3 Personally, I have heard many people refer to the lunar phases both in a positive and a negative way.
I would point out that no matter where you are in the US, the moon is still in the same phase! That's why moon phases are printed in so many calendars, conservation books, and the like. To believe that the rut is going to occur within the same time frame for all of us across the entire United States, is a bit of a stretch I believe. I've seen the occurance of the various phases of the rut change from state to state in the same year, and depending on what table you're sitting at at the local cafe at breakfast time, the timing of these phases have been different from county to county.
This is always an interesting topic of discussion though because every single person to visit this thread will have a slightly different take on the lunar phases and its effect on the rut.
#1 Many hunters and outdoorsmen trust it and therefore plan their hunting/fishing techniques and strategies around it.
#2 Many don't give the moon any consideration whatsoever.
#3 Personally, I have heard many people refer to the lunar phases both in a positive and a negative way.
I would point out that no matter where you are in the US, the moon is still in the same phase! That's why moon phases are printed in so many calendars, conservation books, and the like. To believe that the rut is going to occur within the same time frame for all of us across the entire United States, is a bit of a stretch I believe. I've seen the occurance of the various phases of the rut change from state to state in the same year, and depending on what table you're sitting at at the local cafe at breakfast time, the timing of these phases have been different from county to county.
This is always an interesting topic of discussion though because every single person to visit this thread will have a slightly different take on the lunar phases and its effect on the rut.
08-08-2008, 12:03 PM
#3
Dominant Buck
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location:
Posts: 21,043
RE: Deer & Deer Hunting article on lunar rut predictions!
What you didn't cite was that the rutting moon is on a cyclical pattern.......changing slightly from year to year....and dramatically every (I believe) 4th year.
We're in that odd, 4th year, I believe.
We're in that odd, 4th year, I believe.
08-08-2008, 12:13 PM
#4
Fork Horn
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Kansas
Posts: 451
RE: Deer & Deer Hunting article on lunar rut predictions!
deer are trigered by the shortening days, from what i have been told is that november has the shortest day of the year, this and the moon control the deer (shortening the light). the other big factor that i play more heavily than the moon is the weather. if you have a mild weather year then the visual rut can be non-existant. i like the year that the weather kicks in real cold right around the rut, this triggers something in deer saying i need to breed if my fawn is going to drop at the right time. for the deer it is all about timing, the does don't want to drop their fawn too early and have it die in the cold harsh environment or too late and not have that extra nutrition that only spring provides, plus it is better if the fawn is droped as early as possible so it can survive the next winter. to say that only one thing affectsthe deer i believe is wrong, it is a combination of events that come together.
08-08-2008, 12:16 PM
#5
Typical Buck
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: New York
Posts: 939
RE: Deer & Deer Hunting article on lunar rut predictions!
I recently have been looking at moon charts and deer activity and I am starting to believe deer activity has a lot to do with the moon phase. Everytime the moon chart says there will be a lot of deer activity I see a lot of deer.
08-08-2008, 12:19 PM
#6
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 19,137
RE: Deer & Deer Hunting article on lunar rut predictions!
, from what i have been told is that november has the shortest day of the year,
08-08-2008, 12:26 PM
#7
Dominant Buck
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location:
Posts: 21,043
RE: Deer & Deer Hunting article on lunar rut predictions!
Alsheimer's claim (not his, alone) is that the rutting moon triggers the pineal glands in does.....triggering them to begin the rutting cycle.
That's why the science he (and others)subscribes to references that2nd full moon (after the equinox???). This falls late, this year.
He doesn't think weather plays that big of a part.
That's why the science he (and others)subscribes to references that2nd full moon (after the equinox???). This falls late, this year.
He doesn't think weather plays that big of a part.
08-08-2008, 01:19 PM
#8
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Southeast, VA
Posts: 2,119
RE: Deer & Deer Hunting article on lunar rut predictions!
while I don't think Alseheimers way off some of his stuff doesn't seem to match other scientific data available and seems a little outdated. For example this is from one of his earlier articles:
The Hypothesis
"As further background, I'll offer the hypothesis for our research. At some point in autumn, the amount of daylight decreases enough to reset the whitetail's reproductive clock, thus placing the breeding season in November, December and January in the Northern Hemisphere. Once the doe's reproductive cycle is reset by a specific amount of daylight, her estrous cycle is ready to be cued by moonlight, which provides a bright light stimulus to the pineal gland several nights in a row each lunar month. Then, the rapid decrease in lunar brightness during the moon's third quarter triggers hormonal production by the pineal gland. Physiological changes prompted by the pineal gland culminate in ovulation and estrous. "
The part in bold is opposite of almost everything scientific I haveread about the pineal gland,since bright light actuallyreducesthe ouptut of melatonin from the gland. What's worse is the very next sentence after that, which Ifeel is correct, contradicts what he already wrote. Had he just left out the bold and continued at "....the rapid decrease..."
I feel it would be more accurate.
Bright light does not stimulate the pineal gland itdoes the exact opposite,causes a reduction inthe output of melatonin. The only articles I can find that suggest the full moon "stimulates" the gland are hunting writers/articles. Everything I have found involving scientific data relate increased reproductive activity to decreased photoperiod and increased levels of melatonin because of the dark. Go figure.
The Hypothesis
"As further background, I'll offer the hypothesis for our research. At some point in autumn, the amount of daylight decreases enough to reset the whitetail's reproductive clock, thus placing the breeding season in November, December and January in the Northern Hemisphere. Once the doe's reproductive cycle is reset by a specific amount of daylight, her estrous cycle is ready to be cued by moonlight, which provides a bright light stimulus to the pineal gland several nights in a row each lunar month. Then, the rapid decrease in lunar brightness during the moon's third quarter triggers hormonal production by the pineal gland. Physiological changes prompted by the pineal gland culminate in ovulation and estrous. "
The part in bold is opposite of almost everything scientific I haveread about the pineal gland,since bright light actuallyreducesthe ouptut of melatonin from the gland. What's worse is the very next sentence after that, which Ifeel is correct, contradicts what he already wrote. Had he just left out the bold and continued at "....the rapid decrease..."
I feel it would be more accurate.
Bright light does not stimulate the pineal gland itdoes the exact opposite,causes a reduction inthe output of melatonin. The only articles I can find that suggest the full moon "stimulates" the gland are hunting writers/articles. Everything I have found involving scientific data relate increased reproductive activity to decreased photoperiod and increased levels of melatonin because of the dark. Go figure.
08-08-2008, 01:25 PM
#9
Dominant Buck
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location:
Posts: 21,043
RE: Deer & Deer Hunting article on lunar rut predictions!
NEW:
Do you not think he makes a distinction between "daylight" and "Lunar" brightness, though?
This seems to me to be a 2 part thing.....
1. "Once the doe's reproductive cycle is reset by a specific amount of daylight, "
and
2. "her estrous cycle is ready to be cued by moonlight"
I'm just trying to understand. It seems to me that they are (or that he is saying that they are)mutually exclusive, though.
Do you not think he makes a distinction between "daylight" and "Lunar" brightness, though?
This seems to me to be a 2 part thing.....
1. "Once the doe's reproductive cycle is reset by a specific amount of daylight, "
and
2. "her estrous cycle is ready to be cued by moonlight"
I'm just trying to understand. It seems to me that they are (or that he is saying that they are)mutually exclusive, though.
08-08-2008, 01:37 PM
#10
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Southeast, VA
Posts: 2,119
RE: Deer & Deer Hunting article on lunar rut predictions!
I think that is the way he makes the distinction but the science behind it is pretty simple and the theory differs from his. The pineal gland is a photosensory gland and detects/is affected by all light(including moonlight or lack there of), not just thephotoperiod. Google Pineal gland, pg animal studies, pg and the moon, etc and there will be more than you want to read on it. The 2nd full moon or rutting moon is supposed to be the trigger for the pineal gland according to his theory but in all actuality that full moon will cause a decrease of melatonin ouptut from the pineal gland. Scientific data I have read points to increased levels of melatonin as the cause for greater reproductive activity in both does and bucks.
I posted this huge long post a while back that has a lot to do with this topic, I'm sure most never read it(and I understand completely) but included are my rut predictions and why I think that(not that it matters) mainlyjust a guess for fun but I will definitely be keeping track and comparing itto the D&DH predictions.
I posted this huge long post a while back that has a lot to do with this topic, I'm sure most never read it(and I understand completely) but included are my rut predictions and why I think that(not that it matters) mainlyjust a guess for fun but I will definitely be keeping track and comparing itto the D&DH predictions.