Schultzy

Walt what you say has allot of truth to it. I guess I'm guilty in using the numbers thing but its with decent reasons. The reasons I use numbers (130" and up) is because I do not want a buck any smaller then that. Its where I draw the line. You know what I mean. 120" buck isn't small, its just not what I am looking for.

When people start saying anything under 150" buck is small and knocks people down for shooting them, they better try something else. Apparently there to good for the rest of us! No one should look down on anyone as far as that goes when it comes to antler size, as long as the hunter who shot it is happy thats what matters.

If someone passes on a 150" buck and says its a great buck but knows he can get better bucks, I think thats alright. He's not knocking anyone, just trying to get what he wants.

MGH_PA

Honestly, and I'm going to catch a lot of flack for this, part of it is the American mentality of "bigger is better." Honestly, look at the trends in the auto industry for example. In the last 5-8 yrs, crude oil has been on a steady rise, but yet, auto manufacturers were pushing for bigger more powerful vehicles, and the public ate them up. It's only just now getting to the point where sales are suddenly starting to take a hit in that segment of the industry.

It's not necessarily a bad thing, nor is it a good thing. We as Americans, however, are fascinated, enamored with size. We want bigger, bigger, bigger. We, as hunters read magazine articles, watch hunting videos, etc and we see this emphasis on 150, 170, 200"+ class deer, and that's where I believe it comes from. IMHO, it's a combination of media exposure (we are all influenced somewhat by media, whether we want to admit it or not), and the bigger is better mentality.

Just read Schultzy's response, and let me add, that if a person chooses to set a size limitation based on personal preference, that's great! I have no problem with that. My theory pertains to more or less the general hunting industry's emphasis on monster bucks.

GregH

I'm a numbers guy. Putting numbers (antler score) on bucks is my way of eeking up to shooting bigger bucks. This is my own personal system and not intended for anyone else.

I have killed plenty of 120-130 class bucks (8), and I'm very proud of them. During the last few years I've upped my goal to 145+ or a clean 5x5 of 125 or better ( I've never shot a clean 5x5).

The reason I've increased my goal to 145+ is because they are there. There are not nearly as many of them, but they are there. I may see between 1-3 per season. To me, it is another step up the ladder just as it was when I started holding out for mature bucks from 125 and better. I know it lessens my chances but it has also taught me patience. For the last three seasons this patience has paid off with 147, 126 and a 173 (gross) bucks. In '06 I had my chance at a solid 150+ 8 pointer but missed. I mistakenly shot the 126 (weird double beam 9 point) later in the season thinking it was a clean 5x5 I'd been seeing. I'm still very proud of this. I have to be.......I vowed to myself a long time ago that I'd be proud of any buck I killed. One time, 16 years ago, I felt sad that the buck I killed wasn't as big as I thought it was. I immediatly became ashamed of myself and swore to never let that happen again.

I've been happy ever since!! [:-]

WKP Todd

IMO - It has nothing to do with antler size and EVERYTHING to do with age class. I didn't realize this until I really did get to hunt areas that had a complete age structure of bucks. Inow knowwhy guys who grow up hunting in places like Illinois and Iowa consider a 120-130 class buck a non-trophy. If anyone has seen our video - you see how many 2-1/2 and 3-1/2 bucks I had the oportunity to shoot last year. That isn't a challenge for me when I'm hunting killer areas. A 4-1/2 and older, now that's a challenge. Only saw a total of5 bucks this season that were 4-1/2 or older in 60 days on-stand.

2-1/2 and 3-1/2 year old deer may be targets to some - but to me, they are not nearly the challenge, so the reward isn't there. So, I let them walk.

I ate my third tag in a row in Illinois this past fall. It's not about the kill, the sooner a hunter realizes this, the more they will enjoy hunting!

GMMAT

That's just an incredible little woodlot. Kudos to you for getting in there. I think you said you saw 7 bucks in one sitting int here, last year. That's incredible (comparatively), to me.

Refreshing to hear someone say this.

I only saw 4 bucks in 48 sits (total # of bucks....ALL age classes). Again....incredible. Kudos to you as well for having such a great place to hunt.....and sticking to your guns.

I begrudge NO ONE for what they shoot or their grounds. I compliment them on their successes re: harvests AND their ability to gain access to these areas....and I think Todd's (and Greg's) post(s) is/are a refreshing jolt of honest assessment of his hunting area.

Good luck in '08 guys.

stikbow26

Greg great way to put it, Ialso have been guilty of useing the numbers to often!! I just wanted to get guys thinking!!!! I belive we put to much intonumbers at times. Todd and I hunted a farm in Illinois and I passed 13 bucks in one year because they were young bucks and 3 of them would have been bigger than any I have shot in my lifetime, regret alittle but at the time I knew there were 3 studs on the property and numbers played a big part in my passing those bucks. I worked out for the best because I ended up shooting my biggest buck across the state of Illinois later that year. I just wish we didn't put so much on numbers and more on maturity of a buck for the new hunters that come on and read the threads.. Walt

Siman08/OH

Its combination of region and experience for me. I live in an are where there are 150+ bucks running around, but i wouldn't not hesitate for a second to shoot a 100" 8 point like Jeff did, even if hes a 2.5 year old. I simply have not been hunting enough in my life to start being a trophy hunter, my goal is to build up to it by harvesting a larger and more mature deer ever year.

That doesn't mean i'm going to pass on the 150 if i have a shot though either

magicman54494

I think huge heavy horns are so cool. Thats why I hold out for an older buck. I don't feel theNEED to kill something every year. I try my damnedest to get one. If it don't happen then so be it. If it was too easy I think I would lose interest. I use the scoring system as a way of understanding how big the rack looks. I really don't care what the score is. The only buck that was officially scored was done WITHOUT my permission. I put a tape on my deer just to understand how they compare to other deer. I like the scoring system for getting a mental pic. of someones deer when they tell me about it. Gross score ,net score, g- lengths, mass, spread.
I haven't wanted my deer placed in any record book because I believe the books are ruining hunting. Some people feel the need to get that "book" buck and it can lead them to doing illegal things to do it. I believe the books are full of deer that were taken by questionable means. I believe that soon there will be a 2 class system. Deer that are raised and managed to have huge racks and those who grow in the wild. As far as what sized rack buck I aim for, it is determined by what I have a reasonable chance of shooting if I hunt hard and am dedicated. If I held out for a 160+ class deer I most likely never kill one. I base it on what the average buck is capable of producing if given the opertunity to mature.
I don't blame people for doing everything they can to allow the bucks in their area to achieve maximum antler growth. I would do the same thing. Hunting is not a contest to me. If you shoot a bigger (score) buck then me I will be happy for you.
I think the biggest problem concerning score is ego. Those that hunt to impress others are damaging the sport. They are also driving the cost of the sport thru the ceiling.

Siman08/OH

See im opposite magic, I would rather take a few does and a small buck. Thats just because i need to build up my experience and become a better hunter IMO.

And im not trying to boost my "ego", im trying to become a better hunter for my own personal gratification.

Lanse couche couche

In Illinois, the deer population has exploded over the past 25 years, so in largely non-managed areas people can afford to be picky, I guess. In managed areas, you are (I'm sorry) often seeing deer essentially being farmed and thus the improvements that make people set high standards. Its really a case of antler inflation across the boards. As for me, i am rather proud of the fact that I don't really know how the rack measurement system works to begin with, and I'm not gonna worry about it unless they start breeding deer with edible antlers[8D]