View Poll Results: A poll
Voters: 71. You may not vote on this poll
QDM
03-12-2008, 09:35 AM
#11
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location:
Posts: 13,082
RE: QDM
ORIGINAL: Rob/PA Bowyer
QDM (not antler management) in it's true form is about the animal/species. It may or may not be what hunters want but it's not about hunters. Hunting is all about deer management, we are managers, we manage the herd through hunting licensing and filling tags. Why not manage for a quality herd?
QDM (not antler management) in it's true form is about the animal/species. It may or may not be what hunters want but it's not about hunters. Hunting is all about deer management, we are managers, we manage the herd through hunting licensing and filling tags. Why not manage for a quality herd?
I want to be perfectly clear in saying that what someone does w/ their own land is their business, and I'm behind them 100%. But outfitters are making TONS of money on what? Shooting does?? Hell no, and that's a HUGE part of QDM. BIG RACKS is what they're making money on. I've seen trophy fees up to $400 an INCH over 140".........OMG......shoot a 170" deer, and you've spent $12000 on trophy fees alone. That's not including the 4 or 5 grand you spent on the hunt. States are making a pile of money as well, raising out of state permit costs. This is all "hidden" under the QDM blanket. QDM is about money. In it's pure and truest form, it's about a healthy deer herd. With large racks being a by product.
Anymore, I think it's about large racks w/ a healty deer herd as a by product. I'm all for a healthy deer herd, and if that means antler restrictions, well......so be it. BUT, what really ticks me off is legislation telling me it's about the deer......Sorry, but I gotta call bluff on that one. That's just how they market it. I know it sounds like I am against QDM, and I'm not. I just wish they would call it what it is.
03-12-2008, 09:39 AM
#12
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: SE Ohio
Posts: 2,531
RE: QDM
YES, I support QDM, and try to practice it on the places I hunt, regardless of what the other hunters do, but there are only a handful of other hunters on all of the places I hunt anyhow.
QDMA Life Member, Sponsor Member and Donor.
QDMA …better deer, better deer hunting
42 acres in the Haymarsh Swamp, near Moorestown, MI.
While I only have 42 acres, I do the best I can. Harvest guidelines are pretty simple, don't shoot yearling bucks. Unless you are out of antlerless permits, kill every doe that stands still long enough to put cross hairs on.
_____________________________
QDMA Life Member, Sponsor Member and Donor.
Unfortunately, this is the attitude of a bunch of Michigan Hunters I've encountered. Except they'll shoot all the small bucks and let the does go because it isn't "manly" to kill a doe. The state of Michigan should be producing bucks of the same quality of OHIO, Wisconsin, Indiana, and Illinois, but it's not, because the DNR hasn't managed the herd as well. Can't blame the hunters, when the DNR keeps letting them kill 2 bucks each year without having any incentive to control the doe herd. I've heard a few guys gripe because they would hunt all day and see 20+ does but NO BUCKS!!! Certainly we have some of these type hunters in OH, too, but they can only kill ONE buck a year, therefore oftentimes, they get a little more picky.
I think Antler Restrictions are a form of QDM, but often times are only a partial attempt at a good QDM, but at least they are an effort. I believe PA is a good example of where AR have improved the bucks being harvested, but the state has put out so many doe permits that the overall herd took a beating from many of the reports I've heard.
QDMA Life Member, Sponsor Member and Donor.
QDMA …better deer, better deer hunting
42 acres in the Haymarsh Swamp, near Moorestown, MI.
While I only have 42 acres, I do the best I can. Harvest guidelines are pretty simple, don't shoot yearling bucks. Unless you are out of antlerless permits, kill every doe that stands still long enough to put cross hairs on.
_____________________________
QDMA Life Member, Sponsor Member and Donor.
I think Antler Restrictions are a form of QDM, but often times are only a partial attempt at a good QDM, but at least they are an effort. I believe PA is a good example of where AR have improved the bucks being harvested, but the state has put out so many doe permits that the overall herd took a beating from many of the reports I've heard.
03-12-2008, 09:40 AM
#13
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Cogan Station, PA
Posts: 2,298
RE: QDM
ORIGINAL: Rob/PA Bowyer
QDM (not antler management) in it's true form is about the animal/species. It may or may not be what hunters want but it's not about hunters. Hunting is all about deer management, we are managers, we manage the herd through hunting licensing and filling tags. Why not manage for a quality herd?
QDM (not antler management) in it's true form is about the animal/species. It may or may not be what hunters want but it's not about hunters. Hunting is all about deer management, we are managers, we manage the herd through hunting licensing and filling tags. Why not manage for a quality herd?
This type of management I'm all for. It's looking out for the species.
03-12-2008, 09:41 AM
#14
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: May 2005
Location: One mile east of West Podunk Tx
Posts: 5,973
RE: QDM
ORIGINAL: mobow
Rob, you're exactly correct......but........I don't feel there is a true and pure form of QDM anymore. QDM is antler management, and that's the way it is. Yes, I understand that a by product of QDM will be larger racked bucks.....But it's no longer a by product, it'sa goal. The end result of that is money.
I want to be perfectly clear in saying that what someone does w/ their own land is their business, and I'm behind them 100%. But outfitters are making TONS of money on what? Shooting does?? Hell no, and that's a HUGE part of QDM. BIG RACKS is what they're making money on. I've seen trophy fees up to $400 an INCH over 140".........OMG......shoot a 170" deer, and you've spent $12000 on trophy fees alone. That's not including the 4 or 5 grand you spent on the hunt. States are making a pile of money as well, raising out of state permit costs. This is all "hidden" under the QDM blanket. QDM is about money. In it's pure and truest form, it's about a healthy deer herd. With large racks being a by product.
Anymore, I think it's about large racks w/ a healty deer herd as a by product. I'm all for a healthy deer herd, and if that means antler restrictions, well......so be it. BUT, what really ticks me off is legislation telling me it's about the deer......Sorry, but I gotta call bluff on that one. That's just how they market it. I know it sounds like I am against QDM, and I'm not. I just wish they would call it what it is.
ORIGINAL: Rob/PA Bowyer
QDM (not antler management) in it's true form is about the animal/species. It may or may not be what hunters want but it's not about hunters. Hunting is all about deer management, we are managers, we manage the herd through hunting licensing and filling tags. Why not manage for a quality herd?
QDM (not antler management) in it's true form is about the animal/species. It may or may not be what hunters want but it's not about hunters. Hunting is all about deer management, we are managers, we manage the herd through hunting licensing and filling tags. Why not manage for a quality herd?
I want to be perfectly clear in saying that what someone does w/ their own land is their business, and I'm behind them 100%. But outfitters are making TONS of money on what? Shooting does?? Hell no, and that's a HUGE part of QDM. BIG RACKS is what they're making money on. I've seen trophy fees up to $400 an INCH over 140".........OMG......shoot a 170" deer, and you've spent $12000 on trophy fees alone. That's not including the 4 or 5 grand you spent on the hunt. States are making a pile of money as well, raising out of state permit costs. This is all "hidden" under the QDM blanket. QDM is about money. In it's pure and truest form, it's about a healthy deer herd. With large racks being a by product.
Anymore, I think it's about large racks w/ a healty deer herd as a by product. I'm all for a healthy deer herd, and if that means antler restrictions, well......so be it. BUT, what really ticks me off is legislation telling me it's about the deer......Sorry, but I gotta call bluff on that one. That's just how they market it. I know it sounds like I am against QDM, and I'm not. I just wish they would call it what it is.
03-12-2008, 09:44 AM
#15
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: SE Ohio
Posts: 2,531
RE: QDM
ORIGINAL: mobow
Rob, you're exactly correct......but........I don't feel there is a true and pure form of QDM anymore. QDM is antler management, and that's the way it is. Yes, I understand that a by product of QDM will be larger racked bucks.....But it's no longer a by product, it'sa goal. The end result of that is money.
I want to be perfectly clear in saying that what someone does w/ their own land is their business, and I'm behind them 100%. But outfitters are making TONS of money on what? Shooting does?? Hell no, and that's a HUGE part of QDM. BIG RACKS is what they're making money on. I've seen trophy fees up to $400 an INCH over 140".........OMG......shoot a 170" deer, and you've spent $12000 on trophy fees alone. That's not including the 4 or 5 grand you spent on the hunt. States are making a pile of money as well, raising out of state permit costs. This is all "hidden" under the QDM blanket. QDM is about money. In it's pure and truest form, it's about a healthy deer herd. With large racks being a by product.
Anymore, I think it's about large racks w/ a healty deer herd as a by product. I'm all for a healthy deer herd, and if that means antler restrictions, well......so be it. BUT, what really ticks me off is legislation telling me it's about the deer......Sorry, but I gotta call bluff on that one. That's just how they market it. I know it sounds like I am against QDM, and I'm not. I just wish they would call it what it is.
ORIGINAL: Rob/PA Bowyer
QDM (not antler management) in it's true form is about the animal/species. It may or may not be what hunters want but it's not about hunters. Hunting is all about deer management, we are managers, we manage the herd through hunting licensing and filling tags. Why not manage for a quality herd?
QDM (not antler management) in it's true form is about the animal/species. It may or may not be what hunters want but it's not about hunters. Hunting is all about deer management, we are managers, we manage the herd through hunting licensing and filling tags. Why not manage for a quality herd?
I want to be perfectly clear in saying that what someone does w/ their own land is their business, and I'm behind them 100%. But outfitters are making TONS of money on what? Shooting does?? Hell no, and that's a HUGE part of QDM. BIG RACKS is what they're making money on. I've seen trophy fees up to $400 an INCH over 140".........OMG......shoot a 170" deer, and you've spent $12000 on trophy fees alone. That's not including the 4 or 5 grand you spent on the hunt. States are making a pile of money as well, raising out of state permit costs. This is all "hidden" under the QDM blanket. QDM is about money. In it's pure and truest form, it's about a healthy deer herd. With large racks being a by product.
Anymore, I think it's about large racks w/ a healty deer herd as a by product. I'm all for a healthy deer herd, and if that means antler restrictions, well......so be it. BUT, what really ticks me off is legislation telling me it's about the deer......Sorry, but I gotta call bluff on that one. That's just how they market it. I know it sounds like I am against QDM, and I'm not. I just wish they would call it what it is.
03-12-2008, 11:20 AM
#17
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location:
Posts: 854
RE: QDM
I support and practice it to the extent I can and ask others to practice it when on my property. However, I dont own enough land for it to be real effective nor do I have the information needed to really do it correctly, like buck doe ratios, doe population, age structure etc. About all I can do is leave the young bucks go and I dont think that is true QDM, so again, to the extent of my abilities.
One thing I dont and will never do is deny a young hunter, hunting for his first or second deer, the right to shoot any deer of his or herchoosing. Should a 1.5 year old 6 pointer walk by, the smile and following addiction to the sport is more important to me than a possible rack3 years down the line.
One thing I dont and will never do is deny a young hunter, hunting for his first or second deer, the right to shoot any deer of his or herchoosing. Should a 1.5 year old 6 pointer walk by, the smile and following addiction to the sport is more important to me than a possible rack3 years down the line.
03-12-2008, 11:23 AM
#18
Fork Horn
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: South central MN
Posts: 116
RE: QDM
I notice a lot of different definitions for QDM. What's yours? Is it about producing "quality" deer? Or a "quality" deer herd. You won't find many people against a large healthy deer herd. You would find more people against only trying to produce big bucks.
03-12-2008, 11:31 AM
#19
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: North Lima Ohio & Clarion Pa
Posts: 6,453
RE: QDM
I'll be honestI checked no/mixed emotions.
I believe in doing it if you own, or have sole control over who hunts the land and canmake a standand enforce the goals of the herd and property.
I don't think one person or even a group of people can do anything on tracts of land that are beyond enforcement of these goals. (such as public lands). That doesn't mean that a person cannot do what they feel is the right thing. I typically don't shoot doe(s). Yet I pay the non resident fee and apply for my doe permit in PA every year. Even when my WMU is sold out (which it always is, before a non resident can apply) I buy for a bordering area. Why? because it's my belief that the PA herd has been depleted of too many doe. (I'm no wildlife Biologists and obviously they disagree, but I do what I feel is the right thing in this instance).
I'm also selfish in that, my one Buck tag..is used at my disgression. I'll decide what buck I take (or don't take). I don't think you'll ever hear me say anything about a shooting cull buck. (unless I win some hunt at TheDrury Farm)Let some youngster or retired guy, or a meat huntershoot him.
I believe in doing it if you own, or have sole control over who hunts the land and canmake a standand enforce the goals of the herd and property.
I don't think one person or even a group of people can do anything on tracts of land that are beyond enforcement of these goals. (such as public lands). That doesn't mean that a person cannot do what they feel is the right thing. I typically don't shoot doe(s). Yet I pay the non resident fee and apply for my doe permit in PA every year. Even when my WMU is sold out (which it always is, before a non resident can apply) I buy for a bordering area. Why? because it's my belief that the PA herd has been depleted of too many doe. (I'm no wildlife Biologists and obviously they disagree, but I do what I feel is the right thing in this instance).
I'm also selfish in that, my one Buck tag..is used at my disgression. I'll decide what buck I take (or don't take). I don't think you'll ever hear me say anything about a shooting cull buck. (unless I win some hunt at TheDrury Farm)Let some youngster or retired guy, or a meat huntershoot him.
03-12-2008, 11:34 AM
#20
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Southwest Ohio
Posts: 2,849
RE: QDM
I have never understood the argument that QDM is either about $ OR about the health of the deer herd. I have many issues regarding this being a "money" issue, but I'll ignore those for now. My main point to make is WHY CAN'T IT BE ABOUT BOTH?
Quality products and fulfilling people's wants and desires at prices that they are willing and able to pay makes a business successful. It is no different for a state's DOW or DNR. They have to have a quality product in order to charge more $ for it. So, in the end the deer herd, the hunters, and the state all make out. I don't see why that is viewed as bad.
Quality products and fulfilling people's wants and desires at prices that they are willing and able to pay makes a business successful. It is no different for a state's DOW or DNR. They have to have a quality product in order to charge more $ for it. So, in the end the deer herd, the hunters, and the state all make out. I don't see why that is viewed as bad.