Teach me FOC
03-11-2008, 09:35 PM
#71
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location:
Posts: 62
RE: Teach me FOC
what would be a better percentage for hunting cuz i got 10 % and lets say i got 50lbs of k.e would i have to pay attension to foc alot or no..?
i kinda think of it this way
say you drop a arrow from a building with a heavy broadhead on it...the front will guide the rest of the arrow all the way straight down with the broadhead ending up in the groundbut if the arrows nock end was heavier it would swing 180 degrees and youll see that the nock end will hit the ground instead of the front...
get it..well atleast i think im sayin it rite...hhahah lol
i kinda think of it this way
say you drop a arrow from a building with a heavy broadhead on it...the front will guide the rest of the arrow all the way straight down with the broadhead ending up in the groundbut if the arrows nock end was heavier it would swing 180 degrees and youll see that the nock end will hit the ground instead of the front...
get it..well atleast i think im sayin it rite...hhahah lol
03-12-2008, 04:39 AM
#72
Dominant Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2005
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Posts: 21,043
RE: Teach me FOC
I see what you're saying......but we're not talking about a blunt ended object. The BH has already created a path for the rest of the mass to push it through. Much like a tent stake that was projected through the air. If you could get the tent stake (or conical sphere) to fly mass end to the rear ......which way would you want it to strike the object you were trying to penetrate?
Interesting conversation.
Interesting conversation.
03-12-2008, 05:08 AM
#73
Super Moderator
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Southeast Central Illinois USA
Posts: 6,969
RE: Teach me FOC
While FOC helps in arrow stabilization, its been proven that having more weight in the front of the arrow will improve penetration. Think of it like this.......more mass up front at initial contact makes for a harder hitting arrow at initial contact. This is nothing new, FOC has been discussed and theorized for many many years. Personally I like 12-15% when it comes to hunting, for target or 3D I pay little attention to it.
03-12-2008, 07:39 AM
#74
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Burleson TX USA
Posts: 6,455
RE: Teach me FOC
Low FOC arrowsshooting 20 to 30 yards indoors where conditions are perfect is no problem.
Now take that same low FOC arrow outside and shoot from the open class stakes (50 yards)with a 30 mph cross wind it dont matter how fast your arrow is going the wind is going to blow it off course by a long way even further if you want to shoot a field round where you can shoot out to 80 plus yards.
My target arrows have 175gr screw in points the FOC is 22% now these arrows in the exact same situation as I mentioned above the wind drift is around 1/2 to 1" ( at 50 yards), I have tested low, medium and extreme high FOC in all weather conditions and the extreme high FOC wins every time.
What you want is to have the point pulling the arrow not the arrow pushing the point as that is where you will loose speed and momentium real quick.
Now take that same low FOC arrow outside and shoot from the open class stakes (50 yards)with a 30 mph cross wind it dont matter how fast your arrow is going the wind is going to blow it off course by a long way even further if you want to shoot a field round where you can shoot out to 80 plus yards.
My target arrows have 175gr screw in points the FOC is 22% now these arrows in the exact same situation as I mentioned above the wind drift is around 1/2 to 1" ( at 50 yards), I have tested low, medium and extreme high FOC in all weather conditions and the extreme high FOC wins every time.
What you want is to have the point pulling the arrow not the arrow pushing the point as that is where you will loose speed and momentium real quick.
03-12-2008, 07:47 AM
#75
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: PA
Posts: 8,167
RE: Teach me FOC
Not that I could explain this any clearer than 8 pages of life time knowledge award achievers have already done.
But even cave men knew that if you tied a heavy sharp stone tothe front of along stick it killed caveman eating things more reliably than long sharpened sticks alone.
But even cave men knew that if you tied a heavy sharp stone tothe front of along stick it killed caveman eating things more reliably than long sharpened sticks alone.
03-12-2008, 07:48 AM
#76
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: May 2006
Location: IA/WI/IL
Posts: 1,482
RE: Teach me FOC
ORIGINAL: GMMAT
I see what you're saying......but we're not talking about a blunt ended object. The BH has already created a path for the rest of the mass to push it through. Much like a tent stake that was projected through the air. If you could get the tent stake (or conical sphere) to fly mass end to the rear ......which way would you want it to strike the object you were trying to penetrate?
Interesting conversation.
I see what you're saying......but we're not talking about a blunt ended object. The BH has already created a path for the rest of the mass to push it through. Much like a tent stake that was projected through the air. If you could get the tent stake (or conical sphere) to fly mass end to the rear ......which way would you want it to strike the object you were trying to penetrate?
Interesting conversation.
)....but all objects obey the same laws. Arrows, because of what you identified, would notice less of an affect (proportionally) than a baseball bat, but it would still have some affect. That BH will meet resistance of some kind (say a rib) and the closer to the front an arrow's center of mass is (ie high FOC), the less an arrow is likely to twist sideways when the BH hits said rib. The center of mass may be 13 inches behind the BH....or the center of mass might be 8 inches behind it. Visualizing, it takes less force (from hitting that rib), proportionally, to 'tip' the arrow sideways and hence slow it down. Hopefully I am making sense...
Most arrows from todays setups will blow through regardless because they have so much momentum....but if you want to really maximize penitration...this makes a difference.
03-12-2008, 07:49 AM
#77
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: North Lima Ohio & Clarion Pa
Posts: 6,453
RE: Teach me FOC
But even cave men knew that if you tied a heavy sharp stone tothe front of along stick it killed caveman eating things more reliably than long sharpened sticks alone.
Well at least your memory still works.
03-12-2008, 08:03 AM
#78
Typical Buck
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location:
Posts: 546
RE: Teach me FOC
ORIGINAL: MO_Bowhnter
Yes but when it encounters stuff going through the deer a light front end with delfect much easier causing the arrow to change paths losing energy along the way.
ORIGINAL: GMMAT
That's why I said "If your bow is tuned".
And I can promise you an arrow with a FOC of 1 or less WILL fly straight.
With a higher FOC the arrow is going to be able to take the straighest path through the animal more easily than a lower FOC which would deflect much easier, losing energy along the way.
And I can promise you an arrow with a FOC of 1 or less WILL fly straight.
03-12-2008, 08:03 AM
#79
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: PA
Posts: 8,167
RE: Teach me FOC
Really are we just dreaming up scenarios that defy logical thinking ? Searching for problems to explain our own short comings?
Is bow hunting becoming a thing where common sense and logic are being replaced by the lame excuses and equipment deficiencies describing our very own short comings.
Hard to see why traditional Archery is so popular now days.
Is bow hunting becoming a thing where common sense and logic are being replaced by the lame excuses and equipment deficiencies describing our very own short comings.
Hard to see why traditional Archery is so popular now days.
03-12-2008, 08:12 AM
#80
Typical Buck
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location:
Posts: 546
RE: Teach me FOC
ORIGINAL: Arthur P
FOC is all about stable flight. But you have to consider that the arrow's flight is not done until it comes to a complete stop. In other words, it is still in flight during the time it's penetrating that animal.
High FOC allows the arrow to remain more stable and resist deflection when it contacts ribs and such while passing through. A low FOC arrow can deflect off a rib, causing the shaft to have more contact with the surrounding tissues, causing extra drag and reducing the arrow's penetration. If the arrow can keep it's KE and momentum going in a straighter line - more stable flight path - while penetrating, it'll penetrate deeper.
That's my theory and I'm stickin' to it.
FOC is all about stable flight. But you have to consider that the arrow's flight is not done until it comes to a complete stop. In other words, it is still in flight during the time it's penetrating that animal.
High FOC allows the arrow to remain more stable and resist deflection when it contacts ribs and such while passing through. A low FOC arrow can deflect off a rib, causing the shaft to have more contact with the surrounding tissues, causing extra drag and reducing the arrow's penetration. If the arrow can keep it's KE and momentum going in a straighter line - more stable flight path - while penetrating, it'll penetrate deeper.
That's my theory and I'm stickin' to it.
