Score...
03-07-2008, 10:45 PM
#11
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: ND
Posts: 1,627
RE: Score...
ORIGINAL: GR8atta2d
I dunno maybe I'm missing something here, but that guy look like he'd struggle to make 120 to me.
He's a nice buck but he's lacking any stand out feature.Like tine length, spread, mass.
Good things he's what an 11pt..that helps.
He has potential and is a great deer..I just chimed in cuz of some of the scores seem awful high. I'd say 3.5 y.o.from what I see.
I dunno maybe I'm missing something here, but that guy look like he'd struggle to make 120 to me.
He's a nice buck but he's lacking any stand out feature.Like tine length, spread, mass.
Good things he's what an 11pt..that helps.
He has potential and is a great deer..I just chimed in cuz of some of the scores seem awful high. I'd say 3.5 y.o.from what I see.
40 (20 inches on beams )
43 inches of tine
30 inches of mass
____
130 gross
It's in that ball park from what I am seeing. Prove me wrong . [8D]
Tim
03-08-2008, 11:15 AM
#12
Typical Buck
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Columbus, Ohio
Posts: 702
RE: Score...
That buck demonstrates all the characteristics of a 2.5 year old buck. I would say it is a mid-130 gross deer.
Reminder: it is nearly imposible to age deer based on antler characteristics. You must look at body shape, muscle, etc.
Reminder: it is nearly imposible to age deer based on antler characteristics. You must look at body shape, muscle, etc.
03-08-2008, 11:21 AM
#13
Typical Buck
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Columbus, Ohio
Posts: 702
RE: Score...
Aging bucks on the hoof!
Under the best of circumstances, aging white-tailed deer on the hoof is a calculated guess. Even when all proper methods have been utilized and all available information analyzed, you will still make mistakes. It is also important to understand that every deer herd is unique and that numerous variables must be considered before you can consistently age deer on a particular property.
One factor to consider is how nutrition, or lack thereof, has affected the deer you are trying to age. Has there been an extended drought or periods of above-average rainfall that could have affected body and antler development? Different nutritional levels affect deer body growth and can cause variations among deer from different properties. In most situations, deer herds provided high-quality food plots and supplemental feeds have heavier body weights and larger antlers at younger ages than those relying solely on natural habitat.
Another major consideration is time of year. A buck’s body is on a physical roller coaster throughout the year, which greatly affects how old he appears. During the summer months, much of a mature buck’s nutritional intake is directed to antler development and body growth, though his neck remains quite thin. In the fall, about the time he rubs the velvet from his antlers, his nutritional intake is directed to increasing muscle mass, particularly in his neck and chest as he prepares for the rut. This weight and muscle mass gain takes place in just eight to 10 weeks and can drastically alter how a buck appears. Later, as a buck participates in the rut by chasing does and fighting, he will lose the recently gained weight. By mid-January he will appear thin and often gaunt. Thus, the buck you got a glimpse of in mid-December that looked like a muscle-bound, 5 1/2-year-old super buck may look like a typical 4 1/2-year-old by mid-January.
With the numerous variables involved, it is clear that trying to age a buck in a few critical seconds during a hunt is not a simple matter, and sometimes mistakes will occur. There are definitely bucks that are mature shooters and some that are immature nonshooters. However, there are a lot of 3 1/2- to 5 1/2-year-old bucks that, depending on season, lighting, distance, behavior, and body angle, can appear older than they really are. I have taken photographs of the same buck only seconds apart. Sometimes these photographs are only a few steps apart, and because of the lighting and the buck’s hair being raised in response to another buck’s presence, you would say he is a shooter. Then a few steps later he is a nonshooter. First impressions are why many bucks are taken before their time. Light, angle, and behavior affect how a buck appears. Often minute-by-minute changes in perception occur, especially if other bucks are present. If you are in a rush while hunting, time will be your enemy, because you may rush the shot before making a fair judgment. However, if possible, allow time for the buck to approach closer and your adrenaline to slow. Then, start analyzing him, comparing him to other deer by body, antler characteristics, and behavior toward them. By doing so, the odds of making a correct decision turn rapidly in your favor.
The angle from which you are viewing a particular buck also can lead to an aging mistake. Most hunters are familiar with the statement, “You never age or judge a buck as he is going away from you.” This angle makes a buck appear much bigger than he really is. However, going away is not the only angle that can deceive you. The angle that occurs when a buck’s head is down and feeding often exaggerates the fullness of his stomach. Often how a buck postures with his head held high from straight-on can make him appear heavier and older. I have seen some big 4 1/2-year-olds from the frontal view that could trigger a wrong decision if a split second was all the time available. The frontal view can be useful to judge facial characteristics relative to age, but the best angle is from the side. The side angle is best for observing how the neck and brisket join, how full the stomach area is, and if the back is straight or sagging. However, it is always best to view the buck from multiple angles.
Distance is a variable that has a way of creating ground shrinkage once the trigger has been pulled. The closer you can observe deer the better. A good spotting scope and the best pair of binoculars you can afford are extremely important if you desire to minimize mistakes. High-quality optics will enable you to see the subtle details such as wrinkles under the chin, age in the face, thickening and graying of hair on the forehead, dimples in the neck and body, and the condition of the hocks. In recent times, there has been an increasing emphasis on shooting deer at longer distances. Attempting to judge deer at 200 yards or more without extremely good optics is poor judgment.
What follows are some characteristics to look for in aging bucks on the hoof. For more detail, including discussion of bucks aged 6 1/2, 7 1/2 and up, plus many more photo examples of each age class than we can include here, refer to Observing & Evaluating Whitetails.
Buck Fawns
It is important not to mistake buck fawns for mature does. They are this year’s fawns and usually still with their mothers early in the season. Note the small nubs barely visible on their heads. Look at the length of the head — it will be shorter and more compact than older deer. Also, look at the shape of the forehead. Buck fawns have flat foreheads while does have rounded foreheads. This feature becomes more pronounced later in the season. Buck fawns often are separated from their mothers during the breeding season and commonly observed traveling and feeding alone. These young bucks are often the first deer to appear at a feeding area or food plot. Thus, it is wise to never shoot a lone antlerless deer, especially at long distances. Always ensure other antlerless deer are present to allow a size comparison.
1 1/2-Year-Olds
As you can see, 1 1/2-year-old bucks appear dainty with baby faces and thin necks. Their legs appear long and slender, and their torso is slim like a doe’s. In a photo of a 1 1/2-year-old buck, cover the antlers with your thumb and you will see that the body resembles a doe. Yearling buck antler development is highly variable, ranging from tiny spikes to 10 or more points. But, even super 1 1/2-year-old bucks with multiple points will have small, thin antlers. Likewise, regardless of the number of points, the length of their main beams will be short compared to older bucks. Their tarsal area will be small and lightly colored.
2 1/2-Year-Olds
The best way to describe the bodies of 2 1/2-year-old bucks is gangly and awkward. Their legs appear to be growing too fast for their body. Their bodies, while thicker than those of 1 1/2-year-olds, still have legs and necks that appear stretched in proportion. Their back and stomach area will appear very taut, and their face appears larger than their thin neck from a frontal view. The head will appear long from the side. For the first time, their antlers will begin to catch your eye, which is probably why 2 1/2 is the average age of whitetail bucks harvested in many areas. The truth is their antlers are just starting to grow. During the rut their tarsal glands may be dark, but the very darkest area is usually very small and round in appearance.
3 1/2-Year-Olds
A fuller neck and deeper chest are characteristics of a 3 1/2-year-old. Their neck muscles are expanding from increased hormones and use during the rut but are still not as large or thick as a fully-mature buck. Their chest is beginning to appear larger than their rump, but their back and stomach are still straight and taut. Also, their neck is still distinct by four or five inches from their brisket. Their tarsals will be dark during the rut but usually will appear small, and the dark staining from urine usually does not extend down the leg to the hoof.
4 1/2-Year-Olds
When bucks reach 4 1/2 they attain skeletal maturity and begin exhibiting many characteristics of full maturity. Their rump will appear full and rounded. Their neck will be more muscular and their body thicker and fuller but still trim. Their stomach and back will not appear to sag, and their jaw skin will be tight. This is the first time their legs do not appear longer than they should for their body. Their legs may even appear slightly short for the thickened body. During the rut, their tarsals will be noticeably large and dark due to repeated urinating and rubbing. In many respects, 4 1/2-year-old bucks are similar to young athletes in their early 20s. Their bodies have reached full size but are muscular and lean. Bucks at this age can grow very respectable antlers making them difficult for hunters to pass. Focus your attention on the body and face when aging, especially if the buck has very good antlers.
5 1/2-Year-Olds
At 5 1/2 years old, most bucks will be carrying the largest set of antlers they have ever grown. Their bodies also exhibit some noticeable changes. Typically, their stomach and back have a noticeable sag. Their neck will swell considerably during the rut, making the neck and brisket appear to be one continuous muscle. Also, their neck, while being very big, will appear muscular and firm and not flabby. The tarsals will be noticeably large and very dark with many bucks having staining down the inside of the leg to the hoof. Late in the rut their legs may even appear slightly white under the tarsals where the urine has scalded their hide. Also at 5 1/2, the forehead gland appears noticeably thicker and darker because of increased secretions from the glands underneath. Finally, 5 1/2-year-old bucks’ legs will appear short almost to an exaggerated extent due to fuller and fatter bodies.
Spend time getting to know the bucks in your woods. Pay attention to their bodies, and remember factors that can affect a buck’s body size, such as lighting, distance, angle and nutrition. With practice, you will become skilled at aging and judging bucks in the field.
Under the best of circumstances, aging white-tailed deer on the hoof is a calculated guess. Even when all proper methods have been utilized and all available information analyzed, you will still make mistakes. It is also important to understand that every deer herd is unique and that numerous variables must be considered before you can consistently age deer on a particular property.
One factor to consider is how nutrition, or lack thereof, has affected the deer you are trying to age. Has there been an extended drought or periods of above-average rainfall that could have affected body and antler development? Different nutritional levels affect deer body growth and can cause variations among deer from different properties. In most situations, deer herds provided high-quality food plots and supplemental feeds have heavier body weights and larger antlers at younger ages than those relying solely on natural habitat.
Another major consideration is time of year. A buck’s body is on a physical roller coaster throughout the year, which greatly affects how old he appears. During the summer months, much of a mature buck’s nutritional intake is directed to antler development and body growth, though his neck remains quite thin. In the fall, about the time he rubs the velvet from his antlers, his nutritional intake is directed to increasing muscle mass, particularly in his neck and chest as he prepares for the rut. This weight and muscle mass gain takes place in just eight to 10 weeks and can drastically alter how a buck appears. Later, as a buck participates in the rut by chasing does and fighting, he will lose the recently gained weight. By mid-January he will appear thin and often gaunt. Thus, the buck you got a glimpse of in mid-December that looked like a muscle-bound, 5 1/2-year-old super buck may look like a typical 4 1/2-year-old by mid-January.
With the numerous variables involved, it is clear that trying to age a buck in a few critical seconds during a hunt is not a simple matter, and sometimes mistakes will occur. There are definitely bucks that are mature shooters and some that are immature nonshooters. However, there are a lot of 3 1/2- to 5 1/2-year-old bucks that, depending on season, lighting, distance, behavior, and body angle, can appear older than they really are. I have taken photographs of the same buck only seconds apart. Sometimes these photographs are only a few steps apart, and because of the lighting and the buck’s hair being raised in response to another buck’s presence, you would say he is a shooter. Then a few steps later he is a nonshooter. First impressions are why many bucks are taken before their time. Light, angle, and behavior affect how a buck appears. Often minute-by-minute changes in perception occur, especially if other bucks are present. If you are in a rush while hunting, time will be your enemy, because you may rush the shot before making a fair judgment. However, if possible, allow time for the buck to approach closer and your adrenaline to slow. Then, start analyzing him, comparing him to other deer by body, antler characteristics, and behavior toward them. By doing so, the odds of making a correct decision turn rapidly in your favor.
The angle from which you are viewing a particular buck also can lead to an aging mistake. Most hunters are familiar with the statement, “You never age or judge a buck as he is going away from you.” This angle makes a buck appear much bigger than he really is. However, going away is not the only angle that can deceive you. The angle that occurs when a buck’s head is down and feeding often exaggerates the fullness of his stomach. Often how a buck postures with his head held high from straight-on can make him appear heavier and older. I have seen some big 4 1/2-year-olds from the frontal view that could trigger a wrong decision if a split second was all the time available. The frontal view can be useful to judge facial characteristics relative to age, but the best angle is from the side. The side angle is best for observing how the neck and brisket join, how full the stomach area is, and if the back is straight or sagging. However, it is always best to view the buck from multiple angles.
Distance is a variable that has a way of creating ground shrinkage once the trigger has been pulled. The closer you can observe deer the better. A good spotting scope and the best pair of binoculars you can afford are extremely important if you desire to minimize mistakes. High-quality optics will enable you to see the subtle details such as wrinkles under the chin, age in the face, thickening and graying of hair on the forehead, dimples in the neck and body, and the condition of the hocks. In recent times, there has been an increasing emphasis on shooting deer at longer distances. Attempting to judge deer at 200 yards or more without extremely good optics is poor judgment.
What follows are some characteristics to look for in aging bucks on the hoof. For more detail, including discussion of bucks aged 6 1/2, 7 1/2 and up, plus many more photo examples of each age class than we can include here, refer to Observing & Evaluating Whitetails.
Buck Fawns
It is important not to mistake buck fawns for mature does. They are this year’s fawns and usually still with their mothers early in the season. Note the small nubs barely visible on their heads. Look at the length of the head — it will be shorter and more compact than older deer. Also, look at the shape of the forehead. Buck fawns have flat foreheads while does have rounded foreheads. This feature becomes more pronounced later in the season. Buck fawns often are separated from their mothers during the breeding season and commonly observed traveling and feeding alone. These young bucks are often the first deer to appear at a feeding area or food plot. Thus, it is wise to never shoot a lone antlerless deer, especially at long distances. Always ensure other antlerless deer are present to allow a size comparison.
1 1/2-Year-Olds
As you can see, 1 1/2-year-old bucks appear dainty with baby faces and thin necks. Their legs appear long and slender, and their torso is slim like a doe’s. In a photo of a 1 1/2-year-old buck, cover the antlers with your thumb and you will see that the body resembles a doe. Yearling buck antler development is highly variable, ranging from tiny spikes to 10 or more points. But, even super 1 1/2-year-old bucks with multiple points will have small, thin antlers. Likewise, regardless of the number of points, the length of their main beams will be short compared to older bucks. Their tarsal area will be small and lightly colored.
2 1/2-Year-Olds
The best way to describe the bodies of 2 1/2-year-old bucks is gangly and awkward. Their legs appear to be growing too fast for their body. Their bodies, while thicker than those of 1 1/2-year-olds, still have legs and necks that appear stretched in proportion. Their back and stomach area will appear very taut, and their face appears larger than their thin neck from a frontal view. The head will appear long from the side. For the first time, their antlers will begin to catch your eye, which is probably why 2 1/2 is the average age of whitetail bucks harvested in many areas. The truth is their antlers are just starting to grow. During the rut their tarsal glands may be dark, but the very darkest area is usually very small and round in appearance.
3 1/2-Year-Olds
A fuller neck and deeper chest are characteristics of a 3 1/2-year-old. Their neck muscles are expanding from increased hormones and use during the rut but are still not as large or thick as a fully-mature buck. Their chest is beginning to appear larger than their rump, but their back and stomach are still straight and taut. Also, their neck is still distinct by four or five inches from their brisket. Their tarsals will be dark during the rut but usually will appear small, and the dark staining from urine usually does not extend down the leg to the hoof.
4 1/2-Year-Olds
When bucks reach 4 1/2 they attain skeletal maturity and begin exhibiting many characteristics of full maturity. Their rump will appear full and rounded. Their neck will be more muscular and their body thicker and fuller but still trim. Their stomach and back will not appear to sag, and their jaw skin will be tight. This is the first time their legs do not appear longer than they should for their body. Their legs may even appear slightly short for the thickened body. During the rut, their tarsals will be noticeably large and dark due to repeated urinating and rubbing. In many respects, 4 1/2-year-old bucks are similar to young athletes in their early 20s. Their bodies have reached full size but are muscular and lean. Bucks at this age can grow very respectable antlers making them difficult for hunters to pass. Focus your attention on the body and face when aging, especially if the buck has very good antlers.
5 1/2-Year-Olds
At 5 1/2 years old, most bucks will be carrying the largest set of antlers they have ever grown. Their bodies also exhibit some noticeable changes. Typically, their stomach and back have a noticeable sag. Their neck will swell considerably during the rut, making the neck and brisket appear to be one continuous muscle. Also, their neck, while being very big, will appear muscular and firm and not flabby. The tarsals will be noticeably large and very dark with many bucks having staining down the inside of the leg to the hoof. Late in the rut their legs may even appear slightly white under the tarsals where the urine has scalded their hide. Also at 5 1/2, the forehead gland appears noticeably thicker and darker because of increased secretions from the glands underneath. Finally, 5 1/2-year-old bucks’ legs will appear short almost to an exaggerated extent due to fuller and fatter bodies.
Spend time getting to know the bucks in your woods. Pay attention to their bodies, and remember factors that can affect a buck’s body size, such as lighting, distance, angle and nutrition. With practice, you will become skilled at aging and judging bucks in the field.
03-08-2008, 02:31 PM
#18
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: North Lima Ohio & Clarion Pa
Posts: 6,453
RE: Score...
ORIGINAL: buckeye
No matter how many times Ilook athim up I come up just short of 125. I got him at 123.
No matter how many times Ilook athim up I come up just short of 125. I got him at 123.
