Matt / PA

No it really doesn't.........you guys want to equate ballistic gelatin to the inside of an animal and you can't do that. Ballistic gel is something that will stop a BULLET. It is designed to constrict the projectile from the second it enters the medium. To slow it down and eventually stop it while providing a measurable depth.

A an animal doesn't work that way and it's maybe where teh Grim reaper is getting its advanatage with a ferrule of a higher "Ballistic cooefficient" if you will...........the slimmer design slides easier through that specific medium.

An animal is basically hide over muscle and bone , when you break the hide of a living animal which is under tension you wind up with a hole that is greater than the diameter of it's ferrule especially if the head has a cut on contact tip, and when the blade edges engage the hide the hole is widened further and the ferrule simply goes along for the ride offering no frictional component. All the friction and forces trying to stop the head are applied to the blades as they continue to cut all the way through.
The inside of a deer is like shooting through a bowl of soup.........once you're in your in and how far you go is dictated by how much energy you needed to get through the near side, how much you had to start with and at point of impact, how wide the blades were, if your arrow was going in a straight line at impact, not to mention contact with bones on the way, thickness of any muscle group andto what degree and what angle.

There are too many variables in shooting live animals that you can't equate to shooting a constant friction imparting medium like ballistic gel.

And don't get me wrong I'm not saying anywhere that the Grim reaper won't work great on game.........I've probably killed more animals with that style head than any made. Just don't get hung up on ballistic gel and the telling factor as to why one is better than the other. I don't know of a hunting season for ballistic gel blocks.

I shoot mechanical heads personally for one reason..........OVERKILL. I can get wider lateral wound channels than I can get with fixed heads. I want to damage as much stuff as I can over as wide of an area. Penertation means very little to me because there really isn't a head made that I am going to have a problem with driving through deer sized game consistently and reliably.
I don't care about large bone contact, that's the exception rather than the rule. I want the head that will damage the most and give me the best blood trails for 99% of the shots I'm going to encounter. (and they're still gonna work fine if a deer drops and I hit the spine) shooting through shoulder blades and that as a marketing tool is a bunch of baloney.

All that said, just because something wroks for me doesn't mean it works for Joe, Bob or Billy..........everyone needs to tailor their arrow and broadhead choices to the game they are pursuing and the amount of energy and momentum that their personal set up has to offer. If a small 2 blade cut on contact head is the best compliment to someones set up to get them relaible penetrtaion then that's what they should be shooting.
Conversely I cringe when I hear guys shooting a head of a similar small cutting diameter but possess a bow set up that is providing them with ample energy to consistently use larger cutting diameter fixed or mechanical heads.

Use excess energy to your advantage.........the energy expended jamming a small fixed head through and into the dirt 10" can be better used by shooting something larger and more lethal through and only 6" into the dirt.

Understand your bow and what it can do to it's fullest, think about why things should or shouldn't work and make smart choices.

greenboy

This is why I like to stick too just regular cut on contact broadheads, they are simple you shoot, they hit, and they keep going. It seems to me that mechanicals cause alot of problemsbut that is just my .2

LittleChief

The total cutting surface is the only issue that I've concerned myself with in this thread.





To me, the rest just doesn't matter. The Rage is a great broadhead. So is the Grim Reaper and the list goes on and on. I'm convinced that since I'm shooting a 477 TW arrow at 270 FPS with a 14.75 FOC %, I can take any decent broadhead, make sure it's tuned and if I execute a well placed shot, it'll do the job anything I'll ever hunt in North America.

Matt / PA

LOL, Who are they causing problems for? They cause problems for the people who shouldn't be using them because they aren't the wisest choice for their individual set up or the game they are after.
For a guy like me who understands them, and what I can and can't do with them they are a marked advantage.

Like I said they aren't for everyone.......and you're probably smart to stick with what you know works for you reliably and consistently but also ask yourself WHY they should or shouldn't work for you. Don't just close your mind based upon someone elses experiences

I'm 6'3" and 215lbs and played baseball or softball my entire life, I swing a 34", 34oz. softball bat.........should I expect someone 5'7" and 160lbs to want to swing the same bat I do?

Understand WHY you use what you use.

centurion

This is funny, all this "drag" that you speak about does not come into play when penetrating flesh. If it were an airplane travelling mach 3 maybe, if any limiting factor in penetration its the 2" blades that would do it.

The physics in your head make no sense, an animals body does not consists of shear solid anything. Once a broadhead penetrates a chest cavity, note cavity, there is multiple levels of density and even air. Like i said its the 2" diameter that would slow down penetration, especially if it catches some bone.

You are comparing apples to oranges, a 2" cutting path to a 1-3/8", two blades to three, not even close playing field. I shoot neither BH so i have no dog in this hunt, i just think your "theory" is very flawed at best.

Hoytail Hunter

I don't think I'm comparing apples to oranges. I know I'm just comparing total cutting surface to total cutting surface.

Yes,I know my theory is flawed somewhere. It's why I said I think and not I know. At least I'm thinking first and not wagon jumping without. It's always refreshing to see someone downing someone else's theoryyet not having one of their own.

Do you have an opinion on which of the two would penetrate better? Heck, I might as well ask you then... Which of the two broadheads "pictured" will penetrate deeper if shot into say like a buffalo? And more importantly, why exactly?

centurion

Oh yeah, one more thing, shooting a block of ballistic gelatin covered with fresh deer hide, even with a fresh scapula inside still does not equate shooting a live animal. First, there are different consistencies of ballistic gelatin, some represent human flesh and others animal flesh which is denser. Of course this information was not relayed in the grim reaper test.

Ballistic gelatin is a representation of flesh or muscle, how much muscle must be penetrated to kill the average whitetail deer? There are so many variables and different densities of flesh that must be penetrated that no test in the world can be an accurate representation.

If a cutting tip is used on any broadhead the ferrule shape and design does not come into play as the tip has cut a path for penetration. All of this stuff is just mental gymnastics and really a waste of time.

Shoot a head that is very accurate in YOUR rig, make sure the blades are scalpel sharp and then put the arrow where it counts, simple.....

centurion

Your thinking about things that do not matter, no one, and i repeat no one could tell you which head would penetrate a buffalo better as there are way too many variables. Its as difficult as YOU want to make it, this stuff is not rocket science unless you want it to be.

Its my opinion that a good fixed head leaves less variables to count on, like blade deployment, but that just my opinion, if its sharp and its accurate what more could you want?

Hoytail Hunter

What would it matter? It's not like they shot the Rage into one block of gelatin then the Grim Reaper into another one. They were both shot into the same block.

I agree, but that's not the discussion topic intended. Keep it simple and answer what I asked you - which would penetrate further and why? That's all I'm asking.

GMMAT

I think he's saying.....if you'd make the test more realistic.....you'd see how pointless the test was to begin with.

"Overkill" is the word I think he used.