Hostage Pro Rest
02-13-2008, 08:39 PM
#51
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Jackson, Missouri
Posts: 7,051
RE: Hostage Pro Rest
BigJ... that's a very in-depth and fair review of the Hostage.
But this thread is about the Hostage Pro -- a completely different animal.
All your concerns and reasons you disliked the plain old plastic Hostage have been addressed with the Pro: larger hoop size (to accomodate popular high-profile fletching such as Blazers. That will also allow for a harder offset or helical as well), adjustable ramped bristles and CNC machined out of 6061 aluminum.
But this thread is about the Hostage Pro -- a completely different animal.
All your concerns and reasons you disliked the plain old plastic Hostage have been addressed with the Pro: larger hoop size (to accomodate popular high-profile fletching such as Blazers. That will also allow for a harder offset or helical as well), adjustable ramped bristles and CNC machined out of 6061 aluminum.
02-13-2008, 10:29 PM
#52
Site Bouncer
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Illinois
Posts: 4,099
RE: Hostage Pro Rest
Yeah, I know this thread is about the Hostage Pro and my review was about the original Hostage, that's why I said I "hoped" the Pro was made from Alum. I'm glad it is.
Rob, I do like the idea if being able to adjust the bristles but it does not address the fact that the arrow can fall through the bristles if bumped. Obviously you haven't tried one out yet because if you did you will notice very quickly that it doesn't take much to bump it through even if you have all three bristles adjusted tight around the arrow shaft which I don't believe I'd like anyway. With the Whisker Biscuit there should be plenty of room around the arrow, the only part that is touching the bristles should be the arrow on the bottom.
Now as far as vane clearance, I wasn't talking about clearance to the ring I'm talking about any arrow with more than a 4 deg. offset to the fletching, either the front edge will make contact or the trailing edge will. Again it will only take a few seconds to see this once you guys get them in your hands.
The bristles are cut into a"V" shape to kinda cradle the arrow shaft. There is not a lot of room between the bristles for the vanes to pass and this becomes evenlessthe more you offset your fletch.Now, the bigger the shaft the more offset you can use. but with the standard carbon shafts this will be a problem and you can forget about it with the thin shafts like the Axis ST's.
Guys, thisis VERY easy to prove.....ANYBODY with a helical fletch look at your arrow from straight behind the nock. You don't even need to have a hostage rest, just look at your fletchings. You will notice that there is NO ROOM for the bristles to slide on the shaft and NOT hit the vanes......In fact I'll go one better and post a picture of what I mean.
[align=center]
Straight Fletch ...Does Not Rotate in Flight[/align]
[align=center]
4 Deg Fletch......Rotates Slightly in Flight[/align]
[align=center]
Helical Fletch.....Rotates Dramatically in Flight[/align]
Now look at the arrows above, thetop arrow(straight fletch) has an unobstructed path for the bristles to slide on the arrow shaft. Notice that there is no room for error as the distance between the vanes is about 5mm (I just measured my Axis ST). In themiddle photo there is a 4deg offset, there is still a path but because of the offset the distance between the leading edge of the left vane (in the photo) the the trailing edge of the right vane is only about 3mm. This is the absolute bare minimum and depending on the size of your shafts even a 4deg may be too much as I believe the width of the bristles is wider than that. You're gonna get vane contact but it's not a lot. This is why my arrows still flew ok but again not as good as they did with the W/B
The bottom arrowhowever is a completely different story. There is NO WAY that arrow will slide down the rest without the vanes hitting the bristles, just look for yourself, I'm not making this up. The front edge of the left vane and the rear edge of the right vane are almost directly in line with each other.
The difference between the Hostage and the Whisker Biscuit is the hostage doesn't have all the other bristles the Whisker Biscuit does to stabilize the arrow. That's why the Biscuit works so well, all contact is even, with this rest I believe I was getting erratic arrow flight because there was no consistency with the vane contact. What was happening was the front edge of one vane would hit the bristles then as it moved off of the bristle the back half of the other vane would hit it!
Granted it wasn't like my arrows were flying all over the place but they sure weren't grouping well at all. Especially when I shot the helical fletch.
Hey I liked the idea enough to go out and buy one to test, and I was hoping it would perform at least as well as the W/B but for me it didn't. They can dress it up as much as they want but it still won't change the results until they can address the uneven and inconsistent vane contact. For those of you who don't like the Whisker Biscuit for that very reason (vane contact) you should be just cringing at the thought of this rest...but yet here are some of you singing it's praises when you slam theWhisker Biscuit FOR DOING THE SAMETHING only more consistently. If you don't likevanecontact don't get this rest becausethat's just what you will get!
I hope you guys will be honest with your reviews of this rest because I was. I have no ties to either the Whisker Biscuit nor the Hostage, I'm just an average bow hunter who tested two separate rests, that's all.
In my opinion the Whisker Biscuit out performs this rest hands down. The claim of no vane contact is pure bunk, unless you shoot a straight fletched arrow. So what exactly are you getting you ask? You will be getting what everyone was saying about this rest when it was called theCATAWBA.....and that is, a poor attempt to make a better Whisker Biscuit.
Only now it's got the backing of a big bow company and a new name....I have a sneaky feeling now it'sreviews will be somewhat kinder.
Rob, I do like the idea if being able to adjust the bristles but it does not address the fact that the arrow can fall through the bristles if bumped. Obviously you haven't tried one out yet because if you did you will notice very quickly that it doesn't take much to bump it through even if you have all three bristles adjusted tight around the arrow shaft which I don't believe I'd like anyway. With the Whisker Biscuit there should be plenty of room around the arrow, the only part that is touching the bristles should be the arrow on the bottom.
Now as far as vane clearance, I wasn't talking about clearance to the ring I'm talking about any arrow with more than a 4 deg. offset to the fletching, either the front edge will make contact or the trailing edge will. Again it will only take a few seconds to see this once you guys get them in your hands.
The bristles are cut into a"V" shape to kinda cradle the arrow shaft. There is not a lot of room between the bristles for the vanes to pass and this becomes evenlessthe more you offset your fletch.Now, the bigger the shaft the more offset you can use. but with the standard carbon shafts this will be a problem and you can forget about it with the thin shafts like the Axis ST's.
Guys, thisis VERY easy to prove.....ANYBODY with a helical fletch look at your arrow from straight behind the nock. You don't even need to have a hostage rest, just look at your fletchings. You will notice that there is NO ROOM for the bristles to slide on the shaft and NOT hit the vanes......In fact I'll go one better and post a picture of what I mean.
[align=center]
Straight Fletch ...Does Not Rotate in Flight[/align]
[align=center]
4 Deg Fletch......Rotates Slightly in Flight[/align]
[align=center]
Helical Fletch.....Rotates Dramatically in Flight[/align]
Now look at the arrows above, thetop arrow(straight fletch) has an unobstructed path for the bristles to slide on the arrow shaft. Notice that there is no room for error as the distance between the vanes is about 5mm (I just measured my Axis ST). In themiddle photo there is a 4deg offset, there is still a path but because of the offset the distance between the leading edge of the left vane (in the photo) the the trailing edge of the right vane is only about 3mm. This is the absolute bare minimum and depending on the size of your shafts even a 4deg may be too much as I believe the width of the bristles is wider than that. You're gonna get vane contact but it's not a lot. This is why my arrows still flew ok but again not as good as they did with the W/B
The bottom arrowhowever is a completely different story. There is NO WAY that arrow will slide down the rest without the vanes hitting the bristles, just look for yourself, I'm not making this up. The front edge of the left vane and the rear edge of the right vane are almost directly in line with each other.
The difference between the Hostage and the Whisker Biscuit is the hostage doesn't have all the other bristles the Whisker Biscuit does to stabilize the arrow. That's why the Biscuit works so well, all contact is even, with this rest I believe I was getting erratic arrow flight because there was no consistency with the vane contact. What was happening was the front edge of one vane would hit the bristles then as it moved off of the bristle the back half of the other vane would hit it!
Granted it wasn't like my arrows were flying all over the place but they sure weren't grouping well at all. Especially when I shot the helical fletch.
Hey I liked the idea enough to go out and buy one to test, and I was hoping it would perform at least as well as the W/B but for me it didn't. They can dress it up as much as they want but it still won't change the results until they can address the uneven and inconsistent vane contact. For those of you who don't like the Whisker Biscuit for that very reason (vane contact) you should be just cringing at the thought of this rest...but yet here are some of you singing it's praises when you slam theWhisker Biscuit FOR DOING THE SAMETHING only more consistently. If you don't likevanecontact don't get this rest becausethat's just what you will get!
I hope you guys will be honest with your reviews of this rest because I was. I have no ties to either the Whisker Biscuit nor the Hostage, I'm just an average bow hunter who tested two separate rests, that's all.
In my opinion the Whisker Biscuit out performs this rest hands down. The claim of no vane contact is pure bunk, unless you shoot a straight fletched arrow. So what exactly are you getting you ask? You will be getting what everyone was saying about this rest when it was called theCATAWBA.....and that is, a poor attempt to make a better Whisker Biscuit.
Only now it's got the backing of a big bow company and a new name....I have a sneaky feeling now it'sreviews will be somewhat kinder.
02-14-2008, 03:59 AM
#53
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: The OH-IO
Posts: 7,103
RE: Hostage Pro Rest
BigJ
Can you explain to us what happens to the hen vanes on a helical arrow as it passes thru the WB?
Nock an arrow with a WB and look down the shaft..... The leading end of one and the tail end of the other will both come in contact with the stiff black bristles and not pass thru with the same uniformity as they will contact those bristles at different moments of the power stroke.
[/align]
Can you explain to us what happens to the hen vanes on a helical arrow as it passes thru the WB?
Nock an arrow with a WB and look down the shaft..... The leading end of one and the tail end of the other will both come in contact with the stiff black bristles and not pass thru with the same uniformity as they will contact those bristles at different moments of the power stroke.
[/align]
02-14-2008, 05:35 AM
#54
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Illinois
Posts: 338
RE: Hostage Pro Rest
ORIGINAL: Greg / MO
BigJ... that's a very in-depth and fair review of the Hostage.
But this thread is about the Hostage Pro -- a completely different animal.
BigJ... that's a very in-depth and fair review of the Hostage.
But this thread is about the Hostage Pro -- a completely different animal.
02-14-2008, 07:33 AM
#55
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Oct 1998
Location: Hughesville, PA USA
Posts: 18,322
RE: Hostage Pro Rest
Rob, I do like the idea if being able to adjust the bristles but it does not address the fact that the arrow can fall through the bristles if bumped. Obviously you haven't tried one out yet because if you did you will notice very quickly that it doesn't take much to bump it through even if you have all three bristles adjusted tight around the arrow shaft which I don't believe I'd like anyway.
The Orginal Hostage is too big for my ACC's.
I think you can see it there:
02-14-2008, 08:11 AM
#56
Spike
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: NNY
Posts: 41
RE: Hostage Pro Rest
ORIGINAL: Germ
Anybody shoot one yet? How noise is it?
Anybody shoot one yet? How noise is it?
I'm now shooting a limbdriver and couldn't be happier. The way I have mine set up it's completely quiet on the draw and super quiet on the shot. I've never shot more consistent groups like I do now but that's probably just me. I know longer get the occasional flyer like I did with the whisker biscuit but I like to shoot full helical on blazers too.
I don't find the cord on the limbdriver to be an issue at all. I walk through thick stuff all the time and have never had an issue with it. The loop cord used on it is super tough and you're more likely to mess something else up on your bow before you would mess this thing up.
Hope this helps and good luck with whatever you choose.
02-14-2008, 09:56 AM
#58
Site Bouncer
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Illinois
Posts: 4,099
RE: Hostage Pro Rest
ORIGINAL: buckeye
BigJ
Can you explain to us what happens to the hen vanes on a helical arrow as it passes thru the WB?
Nock an arrow with a WB and look down the shaft..... The leading end of one and the tail end of the other will both come in contact with the stiff black bristles and not pass thru with the same uniformity as they will contact those bristles at different moments of the power stroke.
[/align]
BigJ
Can you explain to us what happens to the hen vanes on a helical arrow as it passes thru the WB?
Nock an arrow with a WB and look down the shaft..... The leading end of one and the tail end of the other will both come in contact with the stiff black bristles and not pass thru with the same uniformity as they will contact those bristles at different moments of the power stroke.
[/align]
Buckeye, what's your opinion on fletch contact?
02-14-2008, 10:01 AM
#59
Typical Buck
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Belgium
Posts: 996
RE: Hostage Pro Rest
I glued my blazers as far out as my bitz permits to go, topnotch is a far to the left and bottum as far to the right as possible, so you can say they're offset.
I noticed the same thing, my vanes hit the black bristles when they went through the WB. I took my arrows and let them drop through the WB which I mounted on the side of a table, I simply turned my nocks untill the arrows fell straight through without getting bumped by the black hairs in the WB.
When you look at the vanes they are parallel to the ends of the black bristles at the startand when the arrow starts turning the black hairs stay nicely inbetween the length of my vanes....
All you need to find out is how your offset spins, to the left or the right.....
Frank
But I too am tempted by the new hostage design, I might try one out as well.....
I noticed the same thing, my vanes hit the black bristles when they went through the WB. I took my arrows and let them drop through the WB which I mounted on the side of a table, I simply turned my nocks untill the arrows fell straight through without getting bumped by the black hairs in the WB.
When you look at the vanes they are parallel to the ends of the black bristles at the startand when the arrow starts turning the black hairs stay nicely inbetween the length of my vanes....
All you need to find out is how your offset spins, to the left or the right.....
Frank
But I too am tempted by the new hostage design, I might try one out as well.....
02-14-2008, 10:07 AM
#60
Site Bouncer
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Illinois
Posts: 4,099
RE: Hostage Pro Rest
ORIGINAL: Rob/PA Bowyer
Ah, Big guy, I have the Hostage on my Marquis and yes, I have noticed this, this is why I'm excited about adjusting the bristles on the Hostage Pro to solve the issue. I won't speculate on the arrow following through the Hostage Pro when properly adjusted til I have one.
The Orginal Hostage is too big for my ACC's.
I think you can see it there:
Rob, I do like the idea if being able to adjust the bristles but it does not address the fact that the arrow can fall through the bristles if bumped. Obviously you haven't tried one out yet because if you did you will notice very quickly that it doesn't take much to bump it through even if you have all three bristles adjusted tight around the arrow shaft which I don't believe I'd like anyway.
The Orginal Hostage is too big for my ACC's.
I think you can see it there:
You have however noticedon the original Hostage, the arrow will fall through with pretty much little effort though no? I believe the Pro will address thiswith being able to adjust the bristles....but at what cost. I'm interested to see how the arrow will fly when the rest has to be clamped down around it to hold it secure. if it works I might even pick one up to put it through it's paces, I just don't see that happening. I think you will need to have some play in order to get good arrow flight, but then you will have the same issues with the arrow being bumped through the rest. Let me know, I'm interested.
Rob,how do you feel about fletch contact?