View Poll Results: A poll
Voters: 102. You may not vote on this poll
What is your view on Outfitters?
01-28-2008, 07:50 PM
#81
Typical Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: East Central Illinois
Posts: 660
RE: What is your view on Outfitters?
ORIGINAL: BTBowhunter
Maybe the thing to do is get everyone together that wants to hunt his property and pool your money. Just like any hunting club anywhere else.
My guess is that, all things being equal, most farmers would rather lease to a small group of their neighbors.
Another option is to lease the ground yourself and let a few hunters on for a fee to help you pay your lease. You keep control but the cost stays down. Of course then, technically, you'd be an outfitter yourself....one of the bad guys
ORIGINAL: englum_06
I would absolutely love for you to tell me how one man/family is supposed to pay a farmer more than what an outfitting business can. Must have some pretty deep pockets or something.
I would absolutely love for you to tell me how one man/family is supposed to pay a farmer more than what an outfitting business can. Must have some pretty deep pockets or something.
My guess is that, all things being equal, most farmers would rather lease to a small group of their neighbors.
Another option is to lease the ground yourself and let a few hunters on for a fee to help you pay your lease. You keep control but the cost stays down. Of course then, technically, you'd be an outfitter yourself....one of the bad guys
The land where my issue was, the outfitter came in and tried to by all the neighbors/surrounding property out. He probably tried to buy close to 1000 acres I'd say. I can't say that amount for sure but I can tell you he tried to buy 5 or 6 different properties and each had a couple hudred acres or so with it. But where I am, he BOUGHT it, he's not LEASING it. It's his.
He's put no trespassing signs up all over warning of video surveillance and threatening to prosectue, but what gets me is he thinks he has access to all 200 acres of the land instead of the 100 that he bought. He keeps bringing hunters over onto the side that I hunt, he's used my stand when I wasn't in it, and he's put stands up on our side.
And just so you know, Im not saying all outfitters are bad guys. I've been playing the Devils Advocate role somewhat. I know that outfitters are a necessity- I understand that people not from around here need them to hunt, BUT, I do think that an EXCESS of outfitters is a bad thing. I feel they should limit the amount of outfitters in a state, county and also limit the amount of ground allowed to be outfitted.
01-28-2008, 08:14 PM
#82
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Bradford, Ontario
Posts: 2,205
RE: What is your view on Outfitters?
Hunting is no differnt than any other sport in North America. There will always be some who choose to make a living off it and there is nothing wrong with that. There are golf, tennis, ski pro's and a multitude of other jobs involved with the various sports. Do we hate the golf course owners who charge $100.00 a round for a premium course? No, we either choose to spend the money and play or play elsewhere. There are very few sports today that can be enjoyed without some form of payment. Hunting as populations grow and buy up land is increasingly becoming a pay as you play endeavour. Many complain about the price of Iowa hunts but right now they are the premium hunts with the biggest deer, Saskatchewan hunts are similarly priced. If everybody wasn't obsessed with taking a bigger deer than the next guy they could hunt many other places and hunt smaller deer for way less money. So who is the greedy one really? We have relatively mediocre deer hunting where I live and I have started venturing away for some additional oppurtunities and I don't mind paying, I also don't have the means to hunt Iowa but I don't care. I just like deer hunting, bowhunting them more and more it seems. But I'm just as happy to harvest a doe with my bow as a buck with my rifle, I'm in it for fun not fame. As already said the world is changing and unless you adapt to it it will leave you behind. I'm not going to be left behind.
01-28-2008, 08:17 PM
#83
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Bradford, Ontario
Posts: 2,205
RE: What is your view on Outfitters?
ORIGINAL: englum_06
The land where my issue was, the outfitter came in and tried to by all the neighbors/surrounding property out. He probably tried to buy close to 1000 acres I'd say. I can't say that amount for sure but I can tell you he tried to buy 5 or 6 different properties and each had a couple hudred acres or so with it. But where I am, he BOUGHT it, he's not LEASING it. It's his.
He's put no trespassing signs up all over warning of video surveillance and threatening to prosectue, but what gets me is he thinks he has access to all 200 acres of the land instead of the 100 that he bought. He keeps bringing hunters over onto the side that I hunt, he's used my stand when I wasn't in it, and he's put stands up on our side.
And just so you know, Im not saying all outfitters are bad guys. I've been playing the Devils Advocate role somewhat. I know that outfitters are a necessity- I understand that people not from around here need them to hunt, BUT, I do think that an EXCESS of outfitters is a bad thing. I feel they should limit the amount of outfitters in a state, county and also limit the amount of ground allowed to be outfitted.
ORIGINAL: BTBowhunter
Maybe the thing to do is get everyone together that wants to hunt his property and pool your money. Just like any hunting club anywhere else.
My guess is that, all things being equal, most farmers would rather lease to a small group of their neighbors.
Another option is to lease the ground yourself and let a few hunters on for a fee to help you pay your lease. You keep control but the cost stays down. Of course then, technically, you'd be an outfitter yourself....one of the bad guys
ORIGINAL: englum_06
I would absolutely love for you to tell me how one man/family is supposed to pay a farmer more than what an outfitting business can. Must have some pretty deep pockets or something.
I would absolutely love for you to tell me how one man/family is supposed to pay a farmer more than what an outfitting business can. Must have some pretty deep pockets or something.
My guess is that, all things being equal, most farmers would rather lease to a small group of their neighbors.
Another option is to lease the ground yourself and let a few hunters on for a fee to help you pay your lease. You keep control but the cost stays down. Of course then, technically, you'd be an outfitter yourself....one of the bad guys
The land where my issue was, the outfitter came in and tried to by all the neighbors/surrounding property out. He probably tried to buy close to 1000 acres I'd say. I can't say that amount for sure but I can tell you he tried to buy 5 or 6 different properties and each had a couple hudred acres or so with it. But where I am, he BOUGHT it, he's not LEASING it. It's his.
He's put no trespassing signs up all over warning of video surveillance and threatening to prosectue, but what gets me is he thinks he has access to all 200 acres of the land instead of the 100 that he bought. He keeps bringing hunters over onto the side that I hunt, he's used my stand when I wasn't in it, and he's put stands up on our side.
And just so you know, Im not saying all outfitters are bad guys. I've been playing the Devils Advocate role somewhat. I know that outfitters are a necessity- I understand that people not from around here need them to hunt, BUT, I do think that an EXCESS of outfitters is a bad thing. I feel they should limit the amount of outfitters in a state, county and also limit the amount of ground allowed to be outfitted.
01-28-2008, 08:39 PM
#84
Typical Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: East Central Illinois
Posts: 660
RE: What is your view on Outfitters?
ORIGINAL: TerryM
Based on what you are saying the outfitter is doing which is plain old tresspassing and breaking the law, this guy is not really typical of an outfitter now is he? If they as a proffession all acted like that slob then there would be no outfitter industry to speak of.
ORIGINAL: englum_06
The land where my issue was, the outfitter came in and tried to by all the neighbors/surrounding property out. He probably tried to buy close to 1000 acres I'd say. I can't say that amount for sure but I can tell you he tried to buy 5 or 6 different properties and each had a couple hudred acres or so with it. But where I am, he BOUGHT it, he's not LEASING it. It's his.
He's put no trespassing signs up all over warning of video surveillance and threatening to prosectue, but what gets me is he thinks he has access to all 200 acres of the land instead of the 100 that he bought. He keeps bringing hunters over onto the side that I hunt, he's used my stand when I wasn't in it, and he's put stands up on our side.
And just so you know, Im not saying all outfitters are bad guys. I've been playing the Devils Advocate role somewhat. I know that outfitters are a necessity- I understand that people not from around here need them to hunt, BUT, I do think that an EXCESS of outfitters is a bad thing. I feel they should limit the amount of outfitters in a state, county and also limit the amount of ground allowed to be outfitted.
ORIGINAL: BTBowhunter
Maybe the thing to do is get everyone together that wants to hunt his property and pool your money. Just like any hunting club anywhere else.
My guess is that, all things being equal, most farmers would rather lease to a small group of their neighbors.
Another option is to lease the ground yourself and let a few hunters on for a fee to help you pay your lease. You keep control but the cost stays down. Of course then, technically, you'd be an outfitter yourself....one of the bad guys
ORIGINAL: englum_06
I would absolutely love for you to tell me how one man/family is supposed to pay a farmer more than what an outfitting business can. Must have some pretty deep pockets or something.
I would absolutely love for you to tell me how one man/family is supposed to pay a farmer more than what an outfitting business can. Must have some pretty deep pockets or something.
My guess is that, all things being equal, most farmers would rather lease to a small group of their neighbors.
Another option is to lease the ground yourself and let a few hunters on for a fee to help you pay your lease. You keep control but the cost stays down. Of course then, technically, you'd be an outfitter yourself....one of the bad guys
The land where my issue was, the outfitter came in and tried to by all the neighbors/surrounding property out. He probably tried to buy close to 1000 acres I'd say. I can't say that amount for sure but I can tell you he tried to buy 5 or 6 different properties and each had a couple hudred acres or so with it. But where I am, he BOUGHT it, he's not LEASING it. It's his.
He's put no trespassing signs up all over warning of video surveillance and threatening to prosectue, but what gets me is he thinks he has access to all 200 acres of the land instead of the 100 that he bought. He keeps bringing hunters over onto the side that I hunt, he's used my stand when I wasn't in it, and he's put stands up on our side.
And just so you know, Im not saying all outfitters are bad guys. I've been playing the Devils Advocate role somewhat. I know that outfitters are a necessity- I understand that people not from around here need them to hunt, BUT, I do think that an EXCESS of outfitters is a bad thing. I feel they should limit the amount of outfitters in a state, county and also limit the amount of ground allowed to be outfitted.
01-28-2008, 08:52 PM
#85
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Bradford, Ontario
Posts: 2,205
RE: What is your view on Outfitters?
ORIGINAL: englum_06
Im not saying all outfitters are bad guys. I've been playing the Devils Advocate role somewhat. I know that outfitters are a necessity- I understand that people not from around here need them to hunt, BUT, I do think that an EXCESS of outfitters is a bad thing. I feel they should limit the amount of outfitters in a state, county and also limit the amount of ground allowed to be outfitted
ORIGINAL: TerryM
Based on what you are saying the outfitter is doing which is plain old tresspassing and breaking the law, this guy is not really typical of an outfitter now is he? If they as a proffession all acted like that slob then there would be no outfitter industry to speak of.
ORIGINAL: englum_06
The land where my issue was, the outfitter came in and tried to by all the neighbors/surrounding property out. He probably tried to buy close to 1000 acres I'd say. I can't say that amount for sure but I can tell you he tried to buy 5 or 6 different properties and each had a couple hudred acres or so with it. But where I am, he BOUGHT it, he's not LEASING it. It's his.
He's put no trespassing signs up all over warning of video surveillance and threatening to prosectue, but what gets me is he thinks he has access to all 200 acres of the land instead of the 100 that he bought. He keeps bringing hunters over onto the side that I hunt, he's used my stand when I wasn't in it, and he's put stands up on our side.
And just so you know, Im not saying all outfitters are bad guys. I've been playing the Devils Advocate role somewhat. I know that outfitters are a necessity- I understand that people not from around here need them to hunt, BUT, I do think that an EXCESS of outfitters is a bad thing. I feel they should limit the amount of outfitters in a state, county and also limit the amount of ground allowed to be outfitted.
ORIGINAL: BTBowhunter
Maybe the thing to do is get everyone together that wants to hunt his property and pool your money. Just like any hunting club anywhere else.
My guess is that, all things being equal, most farmers would rather lease to a small group of their neighbors.
Another option is to lease the ground yourself and let a few hunters on for a fee to help you pay your lease. You keep control but the cost stays down. Of course then, technically, you'd be an outfitter yourself....one of the bad guys
ORIGINAL: englum_06
I would absolutely love for you to tell me how one man/family is supposed to pay a farmer more than what an outfitting business can. Must have some pretty deep pockets or something.
I would absolutely love for you to tell me how one man/family is supposed to pay a farmer more than what an outfitting business can. Must have some pretty deep pockets or something.
My guess is that, all things being equal, most farmers would rather lease to a small group of their neighbors.
Another option is to lease the ground yourself and let a few hunters on for a fee to help you pay your lease. You keep control but the cost stays down. Of course then, technically, you'd be an outfitter yourself....one of the bad guys
The land where my issue was, the outfitter came in and tried to by all the neighbors/surrounding property out. He probably tried to buy close to 1000 acres I'd say. I can't say that amount for sure but I can tell you he tried to buy 5 or 6 different properties and each had a couple hudred acres or so with it. But where I am, he BOUGHT it, he's not LEASING it. It's his.
He's put no trespassing signs up all over warning of video surveillance and threatening to prosectue, but what gets me is he thinks he has access to all 200 acres of the land instead of the 100 that he bought. He keeps bringing hunters over onto the side that I hunt, he's used my stand when I wasn't in it, and he's put stands up on our side.
And just so you know, Im not saying all outfitters are bad guys. I've been playing the Devils Advocate role somewhat. I know that outfitters are a necessity- I understand that people not from around here need them to hunt, BUT, I do think that an EXCESS of outfitters is a bad thing. I feel they should limit the amount of outfitters in a state, county and also limit the amount of ground allowed to be outfitted.
01-28-2008, 08:58 PM
#86
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: SW PA USA
Posts: 7,220
RE: What is your view on Outfitters?
ORIGINAL: englum_06
The land where my issue was, the outfitter came in and tried to by all the neighbors/surrounding property out. He probably tried to buy close to 1000 acres I'd say. I can't say that amount for sure but I can tell you he tried to buy 5 or 6 different properties and each had a couple hudred acres or so with it. But where I am, he BOUGHT it, he's not LEASING it. It's his.
He's put no trespassing signs up all over warning of video surveillance and threatening to prosectue, but what gets me is he thinks he has access to all 200 acres of the land instead of the 100 that he bought. He keeps bringing hunters over onto the side that I hunt, he's used my stand when I wasn't in it, and he's put stands up on our side.
And just so you know, Im not saying all outfitters are bad guys. I've been playing the Devils Advocate role somewhat. I know that outfitters are a necessity- I understand that people not from around here need them to hunt, BUT, I do think that an EXCESS of outfitters is a bad thing. I feel they should limit the amount of outfitters in a state, county and also limit the amount of ground allowed to be outfitted.
ORIGINAL: BTBowhunter
Maybe the thing to do is get everyone together that wants to hunt his property and pool your money. Just like any hunting club anywhere else.
My guess is that, all things being equal, most farmers would rather lease to a small group of their neighbors.
Another option is to lease the ground yourself and let a few hunters on for a fee to help you pay your lease. You keep control but the cost stays down. Of course then, technically, you'd be an outfitter yourself....one of the bad guys
ORIGINAL: englum_06
I would absolutely love for you to tell me how one man/family is supposed to pay a farmer more than what an outfitting business can. Must have some pretty deep pockets or something.
I would absolutely love for you to tell me how one man/family is supposed to pay a farmer more than what an outfitting business can. Must have some pretty deep pockets or something.
My guess is that, all things being equal, most farmers would rather lease to a small group of their neighbors.
Another option is to lease the ground yourself and let a few hunters on for a fee to help you pay your lease. You keep control but the cost stays down. Of course then, technically, you'd be an outfitter yourself....one of the bad guys
The land where my issue was, the outfitter came in and tried to by all the neighbors/surrounding property out. He probably tried to buy close to 1000 acres I'd say. I can't say that amount for sure but I can tell you he tried to buy 5 or 6 different properties and each had a couple hudred acres or so with it. But where I am, he BOUGHT it, he's not LEASING it. It's his.
He's put no trespassing signs up all over warning of video surveillance and threatening to prosectue, but what gets me is he thinks he has access to all 200 acres of the land instead of the 100 that he bought. He keeps bringing hunters over onto the side that I hunt, he's used my stand when I wasn't in it, and he's put stands up on our side.
And just so you know, Im not saying all outfitters are bad guys. I've been playing the Devils Advocate role somewhat. I know that outfitters are a necessity- I understand that people not from around here need them to hunt, BUT, I do think that an EXCESS of outfitters is a bad thing. I feel they should limit the amount of outfitters in a state, county and also limit the amount of ground allowed to be outfitted.
I personally hope you nail this slimeball to the wall. If he gets nailed for enough of his bad deeds, he could lose his outfitters license and it sounds like justice would be served!
Oh, and thank you for recognizing that we're not all bad guys
01-28-2008, 09:28 PM
#87
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Illinois
Posts: 2,466
RE: What is your view on Outfitters?
i dont mean to get off topic or anything but, englum 06 you NEED to empty yourPM box!i have been trying to reply to you but your box is fulland i have no other way to let you know!
01-28-2008, 10:45 PM
#88
Typical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Albion Illinois
Posts: 758
RE: What is your view on Outfitters?
ORIGINAL: huntingson
First off, Illinois is overpopulated with deer, but that has nothing to do with what I was talking about. Wouldn't an overpopulation be another sign that the management practices are not working? Thanks for helping me make my point.
I also said outfitters AND private land owners, which, and correct me if I am wrong, is the land that is leasedI have never heard of a hunter leasing public land, but who knows what you goofy people do
If by funny papers you mean the main publications that release whitetail research studies, then I don't know what to tell you. You are in denial because THE MAN came and stole "your" precious hunting land.
It isn't like I am gaining anything by saying that Illinois management is doing poorly. Do some research and by all means correct me if you find valid information.
One good resource for this is the November 2007 issue of Deer & Deer Hunter.
Lastly, do you hate all outfitters or just white tail outfitters in Illinois? Serious question.
ORIGINAL: Splitear_Leland
There you have it everyone, directly from the mouth of an Illinois resident. Unless you hunt with an outfitter you are wasting your money. No need to lease any ground, it all sucks. Just pay an outfitter, they are responsible for the rebound of the whitetail deer in Illinois, the very species that 20 years ago was all but extricated. Then the outfitters being the saviors they are came to Illinois, and said, "this place is a joke!". Then they waved their magic wand and said "let there be deer". And from that moment on Illinois has become one of the most populated, if not over populated deer states anywhere. Give me a break. Try not to believe everything you read in the funny papers dude.
P.S. The abbrev. for Illinois is IL.
ORIGINAL: huntingson
Lastly, in Illinois, if it wasn't for the outfitters, your state would be a joke right now due to the horrible management that the state DNR has done. It has been the outfitters and private land owners keeping that state in the topslot for B&C whitetails.
Lastly, in Illinois, if it wasn't for the outfitters, your state would be a joke right now due to the horrible management that the state DNR has done. It has been the outfitters and private land owners keeping that state in the topslot for B&C whitetails.
P.S. The abbrev. for Illinois is IL.
I also said outfitters AND private land owners, which, and correct me if I am wrong, is the land that is leased
I have never heard of a hunter leasing public land, but who knows what you goofy people do If by funny papers you mean the main publications that release whitetail research studies, then I don't know what to tell you. You are in denial because THE MAN came and stole "your" precious hunting land. It isn't like I am gaining anything by saying that Illinois management is doing poorly. Do some research and by all means correct me if you find valid information.
One good resource for this is the November 2007 issue of Deer & Deer Hunter.
Lastly, do you hate all outfitters or just white tail outfitters in Illinois? Serious question.
As far as disapproving outfitters other than those that are affecting me, if they have the same principals, and if they cause the same problems to HUNTERS like myself, I disapprove of them yes. But again, WITHOUT FIRST HAND EXPERIENCE, I cannot cast judgement.
01-28-2008, 11:06 PM
#89
Typical Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: East Central Illinois
Posts: 660
RE: What is your view on Outfitters?
ORIGINAL: Splitear_Leland
Illinois is what some people would call over populated with deer. This by no means has anything to do with how managment practices are done here in Illinois. It surprises me how an out of stater can read an article, probably written by another out of stater, and all of the sudden is an expert in Illinois deer managment faliure. The biggest reason I can see for an overpopulation is caused by outfitting and out of state leases. If a guy pays $200 an acre on a 100 acre lease that he gets to hunt two weeks out of the year, is said hunter going to do much to cut down on the deer herd on said lease. Probably not, he is probably going to wait for a buck to come by, and if one doesn't, maybe harvest 1 doe before he leaves. Where as in some years past I have harvested over 10 deer in 1 season. Now tell me who is the one helping cut down on overpopulation. So keep reading your "deer research", but until you can give someone who has lived here, and has been around what is going on, someone who hunts Illinois every year, someone who drives to work in Illinois everyday some first hand knowledge of whats going on, not just some biased researsh bullcrap, you probably need to keep your mouth shut.
As far as disapproving outfitters other than those that are affecting me, if they have the same principals, and if they cause the same problems to HUNTERS like myself, I disapprove of them yes. But again, WITHOUT FIRST HAND EXPERIENCE, I cannot cast judgement.
ORIGINAL: huntingson
First off, Illinois is overpopulated with deer, but that has nothing to do with what I was talking about. Wouldn't an overpopulation be another sign that the management practices are not working? Thanks for helping me make my point.
I also said outfitters AND private land owners, which, and correct me if I am wrong, is the land that is leasedI have never heard of a hunter leasing public land, but who knows what you goofy people do If by funny papers you mean the main publications that release whitetail research studies, then I don't know what to tell you. You are in denial because THE MAN came and stole "your" precious hunting land.
It isn't like I am gaining anything by saying that Illinois management is doing poorly. Do some research and by all means correct me if you find valid information.
One good resource for this is the November 2007 issue of Deer & Deer Hunter.
Lastly, do you hate all outfitters or just white tail outfitters in Illinois? Serious question.
ORIGINAL: Splitear_Leland
There you have it everyone, directly from the mouth of an Illinois resident. Unless you hunt with an outfitter you are wasting your money. No need to lease any ground, it all sucks. Just pay an outfitter, they are responsible for the rebound of the whitetail deer in Illinois, the very species that 20 years ago was all but extricated. Then the outfitters being the saviors they are came to Illinois, and said, "this place is a joke!". Then they waved their magic wand and said "let there be deer". And from that moment on Illinois has become one of the most populated, if not over populated deer states anywhere. Give me a break. Try not to believe everything you read in the funny papers dude.
P.S. The abbrev. for Illinois is IL.
ORIGINAL: huntingson
Lastly, in Illinois, if it wasn't for the outfitters, your state would be a joke right now due to the horrible management that the state DNR has done. It has been the outfitters and private land owners keeping that state in the topslot for B&C whitetails.
Lastly, in Illinois, if it wasn't for the outfitters, your state would be a joke right now due to the horrible management that the state DNR has done. It has been the outfitters and private land owners keeping that state in the topslot for B&C whitetails.
P.S. The abbrev. for Illinois is IL.
I also said outfitters AND private land owners, which, and correct me if I am wrong, is the land that is leased
I have never heard of a hunter leasing public land, but who knows what you goofy people do If by funny papers you mean the main publications that release whitetail research studies, then I don't know what to tell you. You are in denial because THE MAN came and stole "your" precious hunting land. It isn't like I am gaining anything by saying that Illinois management is doing poorly. Do some research and by all means correct me if you find valid information.
One good resource for this is the November 2007 issue of Deer & Deer Hunter.
Lastly, do you hate all outfitters or just white tail outfitters in Illinois? Serious question.
As far as disapproving outfitters other than those that are affecting me, if they have the same principals, and if they cause the same problems to HUNTERS like myself, I disapprove of them yes. But again, WITHOUT FIRST HAND EXPERIENCE, I cannot cast judgement.
In fact this year with shotgun, Ipassed on every buck I saw because I wanted to save my tags for the late doe only season. Tell me how many out of state hunters would do that? NONE
01-29-2008, 01:35 AM
#90
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: NY
Posts: 4,668
RE: What is your view on Outfitters?
Why do people always say they "lost" land to an outfitter or a lease??
If it was your land then you either sold it or leased it..........if it wasn't your land then you didn't lose anything because it was never yours.
I have found this mind set to be very common among hunters who gain permission to hunt an area of land.......I have been approached before and asked "What are you doing on MY land??".......from someone I KNOW is not the landowner.
If it was your land then you either sold it or leased it..........if it wasn't your land then you didn't lose anything because it was never yours.
I have found this mind set to be very common among hunters who gain permission to hunt an area of land.......I have been approached before and asked "What are you doing on MY land??".......from someone I KNOW is not the landowner.