BTBowhunter

The poll has no acceptable answers for me as well. It most definitely shows the bias of the person writing it. Polls are meaningless when the pollster sets out to get the results he wanted and words the questions that way.

Outfitting is not the problem. The problem is thatour sport is changing andthat change has been a two edged sword.

Lets take Illinois, for example, 15-20 years ago,outfitting was virtually unheard of largely because the quality of the whitetail deer hunting in Illinoiswas not that widely known. In order to go hunting, one simply needed permission from a neighbor. Once the secret was out, it took relatively little time forsome landowners and enterprising entrepeneurs to realize that serious money could be made from hunters willing to come to Illinois and pay big dollars to hunt for deer that were of a quality not to be found at home.In the past 10-12 years, I've watched the cost of land in the golden triangle grow by almost tenfold. The cost of tags has tripled and the cost to lease land or to hunt has also skyrocketed.

It's easy to just blame outfitting. The underlying problem is much more complex. Hunting has always generated big dollars but theaverage joe hunter could participate in his sport close to home with his only expenditures being in gear and maybe some gas.These days, permission to hunt generally costs something. In areas where the quality of the hunting is better than average, that cost will continue to climb as long as the demand continues to grow. How has this happend? Hunting TV has certainly contributed to it. The average hunter 50+ years ago hunted close to home and food was the primary objective. Now very few of us can hunt close to home and, lets face it, with all we spend just on gear and gas, hunting mainly for food is a fallacy. My family and I love venison and we treasureevery ounce, but forwhat I spend hunting vs the meat we get, we could eat lobster and filet mignonevery day.

Hunting has become big business just like many other pastimes. I spent $20 the first time I took my kid to a hockey game. Now it's at least a$200 evening for two people in the cheap seats. Taking a week to go deer hunting used to cost 12 bucks for a license and gas to get to camp.

I got involved in a small Illinois outfitting (more like a club) operation several years ago.
Why? Not because I wanted to make a business out of the sport I love, but because it was the only way I could afford to be able to huntevery year ina deer hunters paradise. Welease enough land to be able to manage it well and take enoughhunters each year to get the bills paid. We have agood relationship with all our neighbors and with the landowners. Our hunters pay a fair price well under what others in the area charge and everyone is happy. Not all outfitting operations are like your neighbor.

Blaming outfitters for the rising costs of huntingis like blaming the guy behind the window at the gas station for the cost of a gallon of gas.

Charlie P

I can't fault a guy for making money of his land. The guy's saying they lost land, no you didn't you never owned it. With the way things are now why not approach theland owner and make a deal,so you don't loose the permission to hunt. Let's say you have something someone is willing to pay for or someone wants it for free which way would you chose. The landowner usually has mouths to feed alway's has taxes to pay and might want something to retire on some day too.

Most of the leases in our area are from logging companies, in the lease on most it states you cannot use their land as an outfitter, but for a guy that owns his property he would be crazy not to lease,instead ofletting people on it for free if he has the chance to do it.

Splitear_Leland

I will never lease ground, nor will I hunt on leased ground. Just the same as most of you will never hunt high fence, I do not agree with it's principals. I refuse to do this not so I can make a statement, I refuse to do it becauseI disagree with doing it. I will someday hopefully be able to buy property, but as long as I am hunting on other landowners, I will let others hunt on my property. I refuse to become part of this epidemic, and shun those of you who take part in it.
As for you outfitters who claim to not do it for the money, WTF! You tell me that, and unless you are not charging for you hunts I will call you a liar.
When I say "lost property" I mean for instance, you hunt a piece of property, and have hunted if for years, and in my case killed your first deer with a bow off of this property. Now this year the landowners says that someone has offerd him $200 an acre for a lease and he couldn't turn it down. He asks you to remove all of your treestands, and tells you that you will not be allowed on his property. Now that is what I mean by losing property to hunt.

TerryM

2 out of 8 of the questions don't exactly paint a positive picture do they? A 50/50 choice would have been more fair a statistically valid in the poll.

BTBowhunter

Let me get this straight...Unless you can hunt for free on land that someone else worked (probably pretty hard) to pay for, pays taxes on every year and is responsible for insuring every year, you won't hunt it. I guess all the landowners out there should just let you hunt simply because you believe you're entitled to something for nothing? It'sno surprise that the landowners that I know that now lease their property out all have a similar attitude towards the hunters who they used to let on their place. Many farmers I talk to tell of hunters who showed up onlywhen it was time to hunt, took the prime spots and offered not even a thank you in return. No wonder these farmers are eager to lease their ground!

When you get something for nothing, don't expect it to last too long. Someone will come along thats willing to pay their fair share.If you had been giving something of value ( not necessarily money) in return for your hunting priveleges, maybe you wouldn't have "lost" that land that wasn't yours anyway.

Splitear_Leland

I believe you have mistaken what I said, therefore you are not straight. I will hopefully someday buy ground, to hunt, but will let others hunt there as long as I am hunting on other landowners. As far as something for nothing, you have no idea what I do for the landowners that I hunt on, so you can pretty much quit your preaching. I've helped them cut firewood off of their ground, I've helped bale hay, we've even spent $200 dollars and a bunch of time fixing one of the landowners trucks. And I don't do this because they let me hunt, I do it because first of all I like the guys, and second of all, I feel I do owe it to them to help them out, because they help me out by letting me hunt. Then somebody comes along, who none of us know from Adam, waving a bunch of cash in front of the landowners face. I don't blame the landowner for taking it. But if you want to start preaching your greed driven ethics to me, you're wasting your breath. Tell me BT, have you ever lost hunting ground to an outfitter? No, because according to your sig, you are the problem. Tell me, do you see a problem with in the future outfitters controlling hypothetically 90% of the property. Do you see a problem with average joe hunters having to pay thousands of dollars to hunt a deer. It is a "free market" as is said. Well, if that is what hunting is going to come to, an outdoor Wal-Mart, then I will be happy to bow out of the sport. Until then I'll keep speaking out against you guys pimping out wildlife and the sport of hunting.

BTBowhunter

Unless I am mistaken, when you have land, you will let others hunt as long as you get something in return. Kinda sounds like whats happpening now. Just because money doesnt change hands doesntmean your land doesnt have a price.You just said so.


First of all, you assume too much. I too have lost hunting ground to outfitters and or clubs. It's one of the reasons I took the bull by the horns and got involved. No I don't make a money profit at it, but I do get to hunt at no cost. That is my profit and I won'tever apologize for it.It's all a matter of what you are willing to do to enjoy your sport.

You say you did things for your landowner...well it obviously wasn't enough. If your boss cut some firewood for you and maybe fixed your truck, should he be able to pay you less ? maybe he ought to be able to pay you less cause he likes you? The farmer is simply making a living with his land.The outfitter is part of it too but if there wasn't a market for it, neither would get any money. Your anger is misdirected. If the demand wasnt there, outfitting wouldnt exist. Outfitters didnt create the demand.BTW, Most situations I've seen with Illinois landowners is that they give the folks who presently huntfirst chance to match any offers they get.

You obviously missed my point. I would rather see everyone being able to hunt where they want for free but thats not the real world any more. When the real world changes, you can change with it or you can get left behind. I dont like it either, but it's the cards we've beendealt.

The average Joe doesnt have to pay thousands to hunt a deer. There are many places where anyone can deer hunt for free but the deer may not be a big or as plentiful as in most of Illinois. You live in prime deer country and expect those of us who don't to feel sorry for you because you may have to pay like the rest of us do.

Have you ever hunted anywhere but for something you cant hunt at home? If you never have and never will go somewhere other than home, you have the right not to like whats going. But your rights stop there. If, on the other hand, you have or will someday, go out of your area to hunt andare willing pay for the privelege then you are simply a jealous NIMBY ( stands for: Not In My Back Yard) and a hypocrite.

Splitear_Leland

BT, I am going to bow out of this argument, because no matter how much we fight and bicker, neither of us are going to agree. I hold nothing against you, I may disagree with your occupation, but what can I do about it. I do however believe that turning hunting into an enterprise is going to kill this sport. Greed is what drives these operations. No matter how much you want to say that you don't do it for the profit, you do it because you love it, if you did it just because you love it you would do it for free. I do have a question though, does the back of your red vest say "Ask Me For Help"?

Cougar Mag

We are getting off subject because this is about outfitters but, if someone leases to hunt fine and if someone hunts by permission then fine too.

But what I find funny is how things have become twisted the last 10 years or so. By twisted I mean some of you think its not fair to hunt by permission if that is what the landowner prefers? Amazing!

kevin1

Outfitting is acceptable to me, there are some places where you just shouldn't try to hunt without guidance, but I feel they should never get preferential treatment when it comes to licenses and tags. Stand in line like everyone else or tell your customers to apply for their own licenses well before they arrive and show them how to do it.