Germ

Exactly Jeff Iowa has been managing their herd, not just bucks for a long time now.

Ask yourself this

If NC pratice Iowa deer mangement in 10 years would NC have more older bucksthan before?

GMMAT

We'd have so damned many they would eat us out of house and home.

Gary.....we have the liberal limits we have....because we HAVE TO. We HAVE to kill deer, here....or they'd overrun us.

If we had Iowa's population.....we'd have bigger deer. It stands to reason that 500,000 deer can grow bigger than 1,000,000 if they're competing for the exact same food sources.

But look at FL. What's their deer population? Are you saying if FL implemented Iowa regs they'd have deer as big as Iowa?

GregH

Germ is absolutely correct. Dr. James Kroll is a well known whitetail biologist for over 30 years, I think. He may know a thing or 2 about healthy herds, not just population control.

After reading all these posts and topics the last few days, it makes me wonder if anybody ever reads any info or studies by these guys??!! Not many people seem to know about Kroll, Ozunga or others, or even the publications like North American Whitetail or Deer& Deer Hunting where their articles can be found.

It seems like a lot of guys are being amateur, arm chair whitetail biologists and giving their uneducated opinions.[:-]

Therelationship of harvesting does and herd health has been published for years. Doesen't anybody believe the biologists!!??

GMMAT

Anybody????

Double Creek

Jeff,

Like Germ pointed out, the deer would never be as big in FL, but you would have just as many Mature deer

GregH

That's pretty rediculous and you know it.


If Fl had population problems and out of wack buck/doe ratios, with sound management practices they would increase herd helth and deer size (including antlers) would go up. Not to the extent of its northern brothers though.

GMMAT

Sure you would! BUT....we aren't blessed with having the herd dynmics they have....due to our deer population.

They (NCWRC) are fighting their first battle, first......which is controlling the population. They could give a rat's ass how many mature deer we have. They just know we have too many of all of them.

It bothers me when someone says....if we'd do what Iowa does....we'd have what Iowa has.

That's ludicrous.

GMMAT

If you're a NCWRC.....and all you know is....you have a population problem.......aren't you going to be a little leary of implementing regs that would thwart the overall kill #'s?

THAT is what we're up against.

GregH

If you did what Iowa does, you'd have better deer.

Do you blindly take everything literally?

atlasman

Not true.........they may crack a bunch of does but one has nothing to do with the other.


Genetics, nutrition and decreased hunting pressure.


Less hunting pressure..........short shotgun season vs long rifleseason


I don't think so..........and certainly not "without a doubt".

You may look at it at that way...........I don't...........all I see is a bunch of states trying to protect what they already have by not letting the bucks get over hunted.........the liberal doe tags are to control such things as crop damage andcar accidents........tools to sooth public relations that have little to do with improving hunting. What so many people fail to consider is how many bucks are lost through crushing the does.........everyone cries when a BB gets shot and they all celebrate when a big mature doe falls. Killing the doe potentially removes multiple bucks from the herd while the BB is only one lost.


How many more hunters are in MI??


Works to control numbers...........has no effect on quality of hunting. I have seen the deer numbers in NY rise and fall (sometimes dramatic) over the past 20 years. You used to need 5 guys just to get one doetag..........now you can kill them by the truck load and hunting is no better.......in factit is likely worse in many areas.


Once again..........you are falling victim to the "lottery" mentality......you are basing your view of PA on a few good deer shot in PA (most of which were on private land). This board is no where near a good sample of an entire state (either way). I was in PA this year and what I witnessed was a much less rosey picture.


I don't think it is the "way"...........I think it is "how many" of us hunt more then anything.


The 3 most stunning examples of land management I have witnessed first hand in NY all have one thing in common.........They didnot kill a single deer for 5 years.

Ask yourselfthis...............if someone told you they would give you access to 500 acres of landthat had not seen a hunter for 10 years would you be happy or sad??

What I saw out of state this year TOTALLY changed my opinion on the myth that you need toblast the does to have good hunting........it's just not true, and in my opinion is actually counter productive.