Managing Herds......
01-10-2008, 03:12 PM
#21
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Nashville, Ohio
Posts: 1,109
RE: Managing Herds......
THank you germ we have to finish what WE started. WE caused the problem so WE have to fix it not nature.
Big John I don't think you want to see deer starve or die of disease any more than the next guy, so why say let mother nature do the work?
Big John I don't think you want to see deer starve or die of disease any more than the next guy, so why say let mother nature do the work?
01-10-2008, 03:13 PM
#22
Dominant Buck
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location:
Posts: 21,043
RE: Managing Herds......
John:
Then why go to the doctor the next time you feel chest pains?
(I'm kidding, buddy)
I guess (I can only speak for me).....I look at it like this. If I can do something every year....that mightprevent a big die off.......why not? What's so wrong with this way of thinking?
And to answer your previous question.....here's some fresh off the presses NC figures for 2006-2007.
Whitetail deer harvest report for NC.
154,273 deer reported.
85,458 Antlered Bucks
8,153 BB's
60,662 Does
Then why go to the doctor the next time you feel chest pains?
(I'm kidding, buddy)
I guess (I can only speak for me).....I look at it like this. If I can do something every year....that mightprevent a big die off.......why not? What's so wrong with this way of thinking?
And to answer your previous question.....here's some fresh off the presses NC figures for 2006-2007.
Whitetail deer harvest report for NC.
154,273 deer reported.
85,458 Antlered Bucks
8,153 BB's
60,662 Does
01-10-2008, 03:14 PM
#23
Site Bouncer
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Illinois
Posts: 4,099
RE: Managing Herds......
ORIGINAL: popeandyoungchaser
First off we are the reason that the White-tailed deer is as prolific as it is. We have more deer today on the North American continent than when the europeans first landed. The reason for this is that Mother nature is brutal in her management stratagies. If we were to let "nature run its course" so to say, we would see a boom in poopulation numbers for about 10 years imo. Then once the population reaches or exceeds MCC we would see a rapid decline, no i think genocide is the word, in the population of the white-tailed deer. I think we owe it to the species that we love and admire, to finish what we started.
First off we are the reason that the White-tailed deer is as prolific as it is. We have more deer today on the North American continent than when the europeans first landed. The reason for this is that Mother nature is brutal in her management stratagies. If we were to let "nature run its course" so to say, we would see a boom in poopulation numbers for about 10 years imo. Then once the population reaches or exceeds MCC we would see a rapid decline, no i think genocide is the word, in the population of the white-tailed deer. I think we owe it to the species that we love and admire, to finish what we started.
My question is why the need to "self medicate" when (for the most part)each statesbag limits keep us from killing too many deer?
I don't think there is a state in the Union that has a truly big problem with over population. Yeah in some sections of certain states the numbers are probably higher than they should be but if left to their own demise I don't think the states overall population would be effected too much.
01-10-2008, 03:17 PM
#24
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Michigan/Ohio
Posts: 11,682
RE: Managing Herds......
ORIGINAL: BigJ71
Isn't that what bag limits do? Control the overall population of Whitetail deer in each state and keep hunters from killing of the species (like we almost did in some areas?
My question is why the need to "self medicate" when (for the most part)each statesbag limits keep us from killing too many deer?
I don't think there is a state in the Union that has a truly big problem with over population. Yeah in some sections of certain states the numbers are probably higher than they should be but if left to their own demise I don't think the states overall population would be effected too much.
ORIGINAL: popeandyoungchaser
First off we are the reason that the White-tailed deer is as prolific as it is. We have more deer today on the North American continent than when the europeans first landed. The reason for this is that Mother nature is brutal in her management stratagies. If we were to let "nature run its course" so to say, we would see a boom in poopulation numbers for about 10 years imo. Then once the population reaches or exceeds MCC we would see a rapid decline, no i think genocide is the word, in the population of the white-tailed deer. I think we owe it to the species that we love and admire, to finish what we started.
First off we are the reason that the White-tailed deer is as prolific as it is. We have more deer today on the North American continent than when the europeans first landed. The reason for this is that Mother nature is brutal in her management stratagies. If we were to let "nature run its course" so to say, we would see a boom in poopulation numbers for about 10 years imo. Then once the population reaches or exceeds MCC we would see a rapid decline, no i think genocide is the word, in the population of the white-tailed deer. I think we owe it to the species that we love and admire, to finish what we started.
My question is why the need to "self medicate" when (for the most part)each statesbag limits keep us from killing too many deer?
I don't think there is a state in the Union that has a truly big problem with over population. Yeah in some sections of certain states the numbers are probably higher than they should be but if left to their own demise I don't think the states overall population would be effected too much.
Mainly because the DNR tag system is a complete failure IMO based on results
01-10-2008, 03:21 PM
#25
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Nashville, Ohio
Posts: 1,109
RE: Managing Herds......
Germ you are correct about the state of MI i hunt here through the school year and its bad, i never realized how good ohio has it. They really need to do something about the tagging system.
01-10-2008, 03:26 PM
#26
Site Bouncer
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Illinois
Posts: 4,099
RE: Managing Herds......
ORIGINAL: GregH
1) Bucks have a naturally higher mortality rate than does. In time, the buck/doe ratio would be really out of whack causing more stress on the bucks and lesser bucks would be doing moe and more of the breeding.
2) The effects of letting deer self populate would be disasterous to the land. Deer are like rabbits, very prolific. Have you ever seen a totally over browsed area? The food sources would become depleted, the deer would begin to deteriorate and starve and we'd have a real mess on our hands. Possibly something that would take at least a decade to recover from. It could possibly lead to a closed season(s) for a while.
In this day and age with people and developement, deer need to be managed.They need to be managed by people not by themselves. Since we'll be managing them why not do it for the optimum herd?
1) Bucks have a naturally higher mortality rate than does. In time, the buck/doe ratio would be really out of whack causing more stress on the bucks and lesser bucks would be doing moe and more of the breeding.
2) The effects of letting deer self populate would be disasterous to the land. Deer are like rabbits, very prolific. Have you ever seen a totally over browsed area? The food sources would become depleted, the deer would begin to deteriorate and starve and we'd have a real mess on our hands. Possibly something that would take at least a decade to recover from. It could possibly lead to a closed season(s) for a while.
In this day and age with people and developement, deer need to be managed.They need to be managed by people not by themselves. Since we'll be managing them why not do it for the optimum herd?
Here in Illinois (as you know) a resident can only kill two bucks a year but can kill as many does as they want (archery equipment). Ithink the Illinois DNR is doing a pretty good job to date.
So why am I killing extradoes on the property(s)I hunt??
01-10-2008, 03:29 PM
#27
Site Bouncer
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Illinois
Posts: 4,099
RE: Managing Herds......
ORIGINAL: Germ
In MI SLP we are 5-10 years from having a very serious problem IMO.
Mainly because the DNR tag system is a complete failure IMO based on results
ORIGINAL: BigJ71
Isn't that what bag limits do? Control the overall population of Whitetail deer in each state and keep hunters from killing of the species (like we almost did in some areas?
My question is why the need to "self medicate" when (for the most part)each statesbag limits keep us from killing too many deer?
I don't think there is a state in the Union that has a truly big problem with over population. Yeah in some sections of certain states the numbers are probably higher than they should be but if left to their own demise I don't think the states overall population would be effected too much.
ORIGINAL: popeandyoungchaser
First off we are the reason that the White-tailed deer is as prolific as it is. We have more deer today on the North American continent than when the europeans first landed. The reason for this is that Mother nature is brutal in her management stratagies. If we were to let "nature run its course" so to say, we would see a boom in poopulation numbers for about 10 years imo. Then once the population reaches or exceeds MCC we would see a rapid decline, no i think genocide is the word, in the population of the white-tailed deer. I think we owe it to the species that we love and admire, to finish what we started.
First off we are the reason that the White-tailed deer is as prolific as it is. We have more deer today on the North American continent than when the europeans first landed. The reason for this is that Mother nature is brutal in her management stratagies. If we were to let "nature run its course" so to say, we would see a boom in poopulation numbers for about 10 years imo. Then once the population reaches or exceeds MCC we would see a rapid decline, no i think genocide is the word, in the population of the white-tailed deer. I think we owe it to the species that we love and admire, to finish what we started.
My question is why the need to "self medicate" when (for the most part)each statesbag limits keep us from killing too many deer?
I don't think there is a state in the Union that has a truly big problem with over population. Yeah in some sections of certain states the numbers are probably higher than they should be but if left to their own demise I don't think the states overall population would be effected too much.
Mainly because the DNR tag system is a complete failure IMO based on results
There is no way this can be turned around by individual efforts, it's not structured or wide spread enough to have an effect.
01-10-2008, 03:34 PM
#28
Site Bouncer
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Illinois
Posts: 4,099
RE: Managing Herds......
ORIGINAL: GMMAT
John:
Then why go to the doctor the next time you feel chest pains?
(I'm kidding, buddy)
I guess (I can only speak for me).....I look at it like this. If I can do something every year....that mightprevent a big die off.......why not? What's so wrong with this way of thinking?
And to answer your previous question.....here's some fresh off the presses NC figures for 2006-2007.
Whitetail deer harvest report for NC.
154,273 deer reported.
85,458 Antlered Bucks
8,153 BB's
60,662 Does
John:
Then why go to the doctor the next time you feel chest pains?
(I'm kidding, buddy)
I guess (I can only speak for me).....I look at it like this. If I can do something every year....that mightprevent a big die off.......why not? What's so wrong with this way of thinking?
And to answer your previous question.....here's some fresh off the presses NC figures for 2006-2007.
Whitetail deer harvest report for NC.
154,273 deer reported.
85,458 Antlered Bucks
8,153 BB's
60,662 Does
Hows the overall herd in NC doing?
BTW, there is nothing wrong with your way of thinking (I still do it to) but I wonder just as in my situation, what impact to the overall state population would it have, by you or I NOT killing those does? This of course is assuming the state regs and bag limits etc...are working like in Illinois and not like Michigan.
01-10-2008, 03:37 PM
#29
Site Buck Guru
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Racine, Wisconsin
Posts: 5,922
RE: Managing Herds......
ORIGINAL: BigJ71
Yeah Greg, I see your point and I have seen the results of over population. I agree, we shouldn't just let the deer do as they please. I believe in bag limits to control the overall populations and the restriction on the number of bucks that one person can kill.
Here in Illinois (as you know) a resident can only kill two bucks a year but can kill as many does as they want (archery equipment). Ithink the Illinois DNR is doing a pretty good job to date.
So why am I killing extradoes on the property(s)I hunt??
ORIGINAL: GregH
1) Bucks have a naturally higher mortality rate than does. In time, the buck/doe ratio would be really out of whack causing more stress on the bucks and lesser bucks would be doing moe and more of the breeding.
2) The effects of letting deer self populate would be disasterous to the land. Deer are like rabbits, very prolific. Have you ever seen a totally over browsed area? The food sources would become depleted, the deer would begin to deteriorate and starve and we'd have a real mess on our hands. Possibly something that would take at least a decade to recover from. It could possibly lead to a closed season(s) for a while.
In this day and age with people and developement, deer need to be managed.They need to be managed by people not by themselves. Since we'll be managing them why not do it for the optimum herd?
1) Bucks have a naturally higher mortality rate than does. In time, the buck/doe ratio would be really out of whack causing more stress on the bucks and lesser bucks would be doing moe and more of the breeding.
2) The effects of letting deer self populate would be disasterous to the land. Deer are like rabbits, very prolific. Have you ever seen a totally over browsed area? The food sources would become depleted, the deer would begin to deteriorate and starve and we'd have a real mess on our hands. Possibly something that would take at least a decade to recover from. It could possibly lead to a closed season(s) for a while.
In this day and age with people and developement, deer need to be managed.They need to be managed by people not by themselves. Since we'll be managing them why not do it for the optimum herd?
Here in Illinois (as you know) a resident can only kill two bucks a year but can kill as many does as they want (archery equipment). Ithink the Illinois DNR is doing a pretty good job to date.
So why am I killing extradoes on the property(s)I hunt??
)
01-10-2008, 03:39 PM
#30
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Nashville, Ohio
Posts: 1,109
RE: Managing Herds......
Big John the states set the bag limits the best way that they see fit to get the population to and maintain the Maximum Sustained Yield or the point on the population bell curve were the yearling body wieghtsare as good as they will get, fown recruitment is good, body sizes are good as well as the trophy potential is good. The seasos are what keep us from driving the whitetail to exticntion.