Managing Herds......
01-11-2008, 11:30 AM
#151
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: PA
Posts: 8,167
RE: Managing Herds......
The one point that keeps showing up here is the past management plans have been a failure in every state represented here.
Why is it that each and every one of our game managers let our herds get so completely out of whack before changes are made?
Our plan here in PA was to reduce the herd until deer - human conflicts diminish and our forest regenerates into a better habitat.No one said anything about eliminating the whitetail deer from portions of the state. No happy medium seems available.
Horn porn has taken QDM to a new level, we now have two groups of doe hunters in PA The kill all of them and the kill none of them. And neither group is very happy.
For every group ofguys that burn doe tags there is another group that shoots five just to piss the others off.
It's not pretty.[
]
Why is it that each and every one of our game managers let our herds get so completely out of whack before changes are made?
Our plan here in PA was to reduce the herd until deer - human conflicts diminish and our forest regenerates into a better habitat.No one said anything about eliminating the whitetail deer from portions of the state. No happy medium seems available.
Horn porn has taken QDM to a new level, we now have two groups of doe hunters in PA The kill all of them and the kill none of them. And neither group is very happy.
For every group ofguys that burn doe tags there is another group that shoots five just to piss the others off.
It's not pretty.[
]
01-11-2008, 11:39 AM
#154
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Michigan/Ohio
Posts: 11,682
RE: Managing Herds......
ORIGINAL: bawanajim
And if 80% at whacked at 2.5 its not an issue?
ORIGINAL: Germ
Atlas where buck harvest is low TDM is fine.
When 70% bucks are getting wacked are 1.5 it's a issue.
Atlas where buck harvest is low TDM is fine.
When 70% bucks are getting wacked are 1.5 it's a issue.
2.5 and older 50% is what PA states. Yes 2.5 70% them is bad IMO
01-11-2008, 11:39 AM
#155
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: NY
Posts: 4,668
RE: Managing Herds......
Why does everyone have to make things so complex??
I could fix NY in 2 years.
No bucks for 2 years and reduce doe harvesting by 25-50%.
In 2 years you would have the majority of bucks being 3.5 with many many being 4.5 and some even 5.5 or 6.5. This would leave MORE then enough big boys for everyone to chase and have a ball along with a bunch more deer in general to increase the enjoyment of guys who just want to see deer. Everyone wins.
NY hunters killed 96,569 bucks this year (that we know of) make it an even 100,000 for easy math. In 2 years you would have at least 100,000 more bucks out there that are 3.5 or older and many older then that. Along with that you would have more does for everyone to harvest at will to control the population.
Ny usually has somewhere in the ballpark of 700,000 hunters I believe so with this info it appears that 1 in 7 guys is tagging a buck every year (less because we can kill 2 per year)........so we will say 1 in 10 for easy math again. If 10% of hunters kill a buck every year on average then all you have to do is impliment a 1 buck per year tag system on year 3 and you will insure that on average 70,000 bucks will be tagged each year.........this leaves 30,000+ left over in year one assuming all killed are 3.5+ (which of course would not be true) with the young deer no longer targeted because the big boys are now a realistic goal it would indirectly protect them and leave them for the future..........while still leaving someone the freedom to kill a small one if they so choose. A little common sense in doe control and the population would change from young buck heavy to old buck heavy with the numbers higher but still under control. Everyone wins.
What's the catch??.........who is gonna give up hunting bucks for 2 years right?? Easy answer......if you don't continue to buy your license in the 2 year hold period then you can't buy one for 2 years after either. This is a win-win situation for everyone and a license is only $70 for EVERYTHING........$140 to dramatically change hunting in favor of all hunters is not too much to ask IMO.
More big bucks
More deer
Freedom to shoot whatever you want
Enough deer and bucks to insure this does not change
Everyone wins
All this can be done in 2 years.........it will never happen because people are idiots but it's that simple.
I could fix NY in 2 years.
No bucks for 2 years and reduce doe harvesting by 25-50%.
In 2 years you would have the majority of bucks being 3.5 with many many being 4.5 and some even 5.5 or 6.5. This would leave MORE then enough big boys for everyone to chase and have a ball along with a bunch more deer in general to increase the enjoyment of guys who just want to see deer. Everyone wins.
NY hunters killed 96,569 bucks this year (that we know of
) make it an even 100,000 for easy math. In 2 years you would have at least 100,000 more bucks out there that are 3.5 or older and many older then that. Along with that you would have more does for everyone to harvest at will to control the population.Ny usually has somewhere in the ballpark of 700,000 hunters I believe so with this info it appears that 1 in 7 guys is tagging a buck every year (less because we can kill 2 per year)........so we will say 1 in 10 for easy math again. If 10% of hunters kill a buck every year on average then all you have to do is impliment a 1 buck per year tag system on year 3 and you will insure that on average 70,000 bucks will be tagged each year.........this leaves 30,000+ left over in year one assuming all killed are 3.5+ (which of course would not be true) with the young deer no longer targeted because the big boys are now a realistic goal it would indirectly protect them and leave them for the future..........while still leaving someone the freedom to kill a small one if they so choose. A little common sense in doe control and the population would change from young buck heavy to old buck heavy with the numbers higher but still under control. Everyone wins.
What's the catch??.........who is gonna give up hunting bucks for 2 years right?? Easy answer......if you don't continue to buy your license in the 2 year hold period then you can't buy one for 2 years after either. This is a win-win situation for everyone and a license is only $70 for EVERYTHING........$140 to dramatically change hunting in favor of all hunters is not too much to ask IMO.
More big bucks
More deer
Freedom to shoot whatever you want
Enough deer and bucks to insure this does not change
Everyone wins
All this can be done in 2 years.........it will never happen because people are idiots but it's that simple.
01-11-2008, 11:43 AM
#156
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 19,137
RE: Managing Herds......
Say it ain't so Charlie
I haven't filled a buck tag in three years, between my son and I the freezer is full. I killed two deer this year my son killed five and filled his buck tags with smaller bucks. I don't think the state should tell anyone especiallya kid in his second year of gun hunting or any hunting you have to shoot a deer with three points on one side. Both did meet the requirment but if he had shot a spike so what.
I hunt so many different spots if I decided to shoota 1.5 yr old buck it wouldn't hurt a thing.
Would I have a problem with a one buck system nope, with my luck it would be the year I shoot a nice one with the bow and then have to let Mongo walk with the gun, but I believe that would be better then mandatory AR. which helps to kill off alot of bucks with great potential at an early age.
01-11-2008, 11:44 AM
#157
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Central Minnesota
Posts: 9,445
RE: Managing Herds......
ORIGINAL: atlasman
Why does everyone have to make things so complex??
I could fix NY in 2 years.
No bucks for 2 years and reduce doe harvesting by 25-50%.
In 2 years you would have the majority of bucks being 3.5 with many many being 4.5 and some even 5.5 or 6.5. This would leave MORE then enough big boys for everyone to chase and have a ball along with a bunch more deer in general to increase the enjoyment of guys who just want to see deer. Everyone wins.
NY hunters killed 96,569 bucks this year (that we know of) make it an even 100,000 for easy math. In 2 years you would have at least 100,000 more bucks out there that are 3.5 or older and many older then that. Along with that you would have more does for everyone to harvest at will to control the population.
Ny usually has somewhere in the ballpark of 700,000 hunters I believe so with this info it appears that 1 in 7 guys is tagging a buck every year (less because we can kill 2 per year)........so we will say 1 in 10 for easy math again. If 10% of hunters kill a buck every year on average then all you have to do is impliment a 1 buck per year tag system on year 3 and you will insure that on average 70,000 bucks will be tagged each year.........this leaves 30,000+ left over in year one assuming all killed are 3.5+ (which of course would not be true) with the young deer no longer targeted because the big boys are now a realistic goal it would indirectly protect them and leave them for the future..........while still leaving someone the freedom to kill a small one if they so choose. A little common sense in doe control and the population would change from young buck heavy to old buck heavy with the numbers higher but still under control. Everyone wins.
What's the catch??.........who is gonna give up hunting bucks for 2 years right?? Easy answer......if you don't continue to buy your license in the 2 year hold period then you can't buy one for 2 years after either. This is a win-win situation for everyone and a license is only $70 for EVERYTHING........$140 to dramatically change hunting in favor of all hunters is not too much to ask IMO.
More big bucks
More deer
Freedom to shoot whatever you want
Enough deer and bucks to insure this does not change
Everyone wins
All this can be done in 2 years.........it will never happen because people are idiots but it's that simple.
Why does everyone have to make things so complex??
I could fix NY in 2 years.
No bucks for 2 years and reduce doe harvesting by 25-50%.
In 2 years you would have the majority of bucks being 3.5 with many many being 4.5 and some even 5.5 or 6.5. This would leave MORE then enough big boys for everyone to chase and have a ball along with a bunch more deer in general to increase the enjoyment of guys who just want to see deer. Everyone wins.
NY hunters killed 96,569 bucks this year (that we know of
) make it an even 100,000 for easy math. In 2 years you would have at least 100,000 more bucks out there that are 3.5 or older and many older then that. Along with that you would have more does for everyone to harvest at will to control the population.Ny usually has somewhere in the ballpark of 700,000 hunters I believe so with this info it appears that 1 in 7 guys is tagging a buck every year (less because we can kill 2 per year)........so we will say 1 in 10 for easy math again. If 10% of hunters kill a buck every year on average then all you have to do is impliment a 1 buck per year tag system on year 3 and you will insure that on average 70,000 bucks will be tagged each year.........this leaves 30,000+ left over in year one assuming all killed are 3.5+ (which of course would not be true) with the young deer no longer targeted because the big boys are now a realistic goal it would indirectly protect them and leave them for the future..........while still leaving someone the freedom to kill a small one if they so choose. A little common sense in doe control and the population would change from young buck heavy to old buck heavy with the numbers higher but still under control. Everyone wins.
What's the catch??.........who is gonna give up hunting bucks for 2 years right?? Easy answer......if you don't continue to buy your license in the 2 year hold period then you can't buy one for 2 years after either. This is a win-win situation for everyone and a license is only $70 for EVERYTHING........$140 to dramatically change hunting in favor of all hunters is not too much to ask IMO.
More big bucks
More deer
Freedom to shoot whatever you want
Enough deer and bucks to insure this does not change
Everyone wins
All this can be done in 2 years.........it will never happen because people are idiots but it's that simple.
01-11-2008, 11:45 AM
#158
Dominant Buck
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location:
Posts: 21,043
RE: Managing Herds......
I thought you weren't a proponent of people telling you what to shoot? I'm serious!
The guys here wouldn't stand for it. Hell no. I wanna shoot me a buck and by God nobody's going to tell me I can't.
I happen to agree with everything you said.....but it would have MANY opponents, here.....because these guys just HAVE to kill "their" bucks every year.
I, personally, would love it.
The guys here wouldn't stand for it. Hell no. I wanna shoot me a buck and by God nobody's going to tell me I can't.
I happen to agree with everything you said.....but it would have MANY opponents, here.....because these guys just HAVE to kill "their" bucks every year.
I, personally, would love it.
01-11-2008, 11:51 AM
#159
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 19,137
RE: Managing Herds......
Atlas, You can do samething with a little bit longer time peroid by just allowing one buck to be shot,even if it's a BB.
Let's face it I would love to see bigger racked deer consistently, but I don't ever want to do it by decreasing hunter numbers or mandating a AR system.
I honestly believe if a hunter knows
[ol][*]That there are some nice bucks running around.[*]That if I whack this smaller buck I won't get a chance to shoot a bigger one.[*]He will get more selective about what he shoots.[/ol]
This also will still allow the choice for the guy that really doesn't care about racks to shoot what he wants.
Let's face it I would love to see bigger racked deer consistently, but I don't ever want to do it by decreasing hunter numbers or mandating a AR system.
I honestly believe if a hunter knows
[ol][*]That there are some nice bucks running around.[*]That if I whack this smaller buck I won't get a chance to shoot a bigger one.[*]He will get more selective about what he shoots.[/ol]
This also will still allow the choice for the guy that really doesn't care about racks to shoot what he wants.
01-11-2008, 11:55 AM
#160
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: NY
Posts: 4,668
RE: Managing Herds......
ORIGINAL: GMMAT
I thought you weren't a proponent of people telling you what to shoot? I'm serious!
I thought you weren't a proponent of people telling you what to shoot? I'm serious!
I'm not.........my plan lets people shoot whatever they want.......after year 2. I see this as no different then the doetag system. They hold doe tags all the time, why should buck tags be any different?
Besides when someone knows no one else gets to shoot a buck either it will sting less..........heck, just go out of state for 2 years and drill something in PA and/or Ohio and then come home to a whole new canvas. If you HAVE to get your buck kill jones fix then burn some gas.