Anyone ever heard of 97.3fp of KE?
12-20-2007, 10:57 AM
#42
Site Buck Guru
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Racine, Wisconsin
Posts: 5,922
RE: Anyone ever heard of 97.3fp of KE?
ORIGINAL: Arthur P
Yeah! What Sylvan said.Show me the force draw curve, stored energy/peak draw force ratio andstored energy/kenetic energyefficiency. Then I'll decide whetherI'm impressed or not.
Yeah! What Sylvan said.Show me the force draw curve, stored energy/peak draw force ratio andstored energy/kenetic energyefficiency. Then I'll decide whetherI'm impressed or not.
The reason I ask is because many years ago (1994), I was at a shoot where Norb Melaney (sp) was doing draw force curves with peoples bows and shooting through a crono, and my set up had more KE than SE.
My set up was 84 lbs w/ hatchet cams, 550gr arrow, 280fps.
I'll have to look around because I have the sheets somewhere. After meeting Norb, I went and made my own boat winch measuring device and make d/f curves for all my bows.
Thanks
12-20-2007, 11:00 AM
#43
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Northeast Tennessee
Posts: 5,673
RE: Anyone ever heard of 97.3fp of KE?
ORIGINAL: quiksilver
Out of all the smaller/upstart bow companies - I think Elite stands the best chance at taking a real bite out of the top-end bow sales of the big dogs.
HCA is building really awesome bows, but they'll always wear the Scarlet Letter from their collapse a while back. Also, their website looks like a Junior high computer class project, and their customer service (if anyone ever had to use it) would probably be a little sketchy.
Elite has a fantastic site, fantastic worksmanship, top-end components, and(I think) their new warranty willmatch HCA's, or at least be close.They already havea reputation for offering great customer service. In all honesty, I think their 2008 lineup blows everybody else's out of the water right now.
From a corporate perspective - the market leaders now have to look over their shoulder a little more. They have to be more responsible with their pricing, as well as their quality control and service. It's never good news for Mathews, Hoyt, PSE, Bowtech when a company like Elite, HCA, or Ross starts making waves. It's ESPECIALLY bad when you have your top designer jump ship to start his own competing venture and try to start eating your lunch. I'm sure there was some major blood-letting over that little escapade.
From a consumer's perspective - everybody gains when a new big fish is swimming in the pond. That increase in competition drives research, development, pricing, service, etc... We reap the benefits.
And... by going with a smaller company, you get the added bonus of having something that nobody else has. You can't put a pricetag on that. Nobody is ever gonna walk up to a guy with a Guardian and say "Wow! A Guardian! Let me check it out!" Nope. Your guardian is just like ten zillion other peoples' Guardians.
I'ma pretty big attention hore, though, so Iget a bang out of it when I'm at the range and the guy nextto me says "What theheckkind of bow is THAT?!"
Out of all the smaller/upstart bow companies - I think Elite stands the best chance at taking a real bite out of the top-end bow sales of the big dogs.
HCA is building really awesome bows, but they'll always wear the Scarlet Letter from their collapse a while back. Also, their website looks like a Junior high computer class project, and their customer service (if anyone ever had to use it) would probably be a little sketchy.
Elite has a fantastic site, fantastic worksmanship, top-end components, and(I think) their new warranty willmatch HCA's, or at least be close.They already havea reputation for offering great customer service. In all honesty, I think their 2008 lineup blows everybody else's out of the water right now.
From a corporate perspective - the market leaders now have to look over their shoulder a little more. They have to be more responsible with their pricing, as well as their quality control and service. It's never good news for Mathews, Hoyt, PSE, Bowtech when a company like Elite, HCA, or Ross starts making waves. It's ESPECIALLY bad when you have your top designer jump ship to start his own competing venture and try to start eating your lunch. I'm sure there was some major blood-letting over that little escapade.
From a consumer's perspective - everybody gains when a new big fish is swimming in the pond. That increase in competition drives research, development, pricing, service, etc... We reap the benefits.
And... by going with a smaller company, you get the added bonus of having something that nobody else has. You can't put a pricetag on that. Nobody is ever gonna walk up to a guy with a Guardian and say "Wow! A Guardian! Let me check it out!" Nope. Your guardian is just like ten zillion other peoples' Guardians.
I'ma pretty big attention hore, though, so Iget a bang out of it when I'm at the range and the guy nextto me says "What theheckkind of bow is THAT?!"
12-20-2007, 03:05 PM
#45
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Terre Haute, Indiana
Posts: 914
RE: Anyone ever heard of 97.3fp of KE?
Is it possible to have more KE than stored energy?
Absolutely, for sure, no!
Absolutely, for sure, no!
12-20-2007, 04:07 PM
#46
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Upstate New York
Posts: 2,435
RE: Anyone ever heard of 97.3fp of KE?
ORIGINAL: indianahunter83
Well technically if you are shooting with a 400 mph wind behind your back that arrow will have an increased KE on target than the PE you stored upon drawing the bow. Yeah a little far fetched
Is it possible to have more KE than stored energy?
Absolutely, for sure, no!
Absolutely, for sure, no!
It seems that the wind might accelerate the archer more than the arrow, due to his greater surface area, and he could wind up shooting himself! Now I've got that to worry about.
12-20-2007, 04:25 PM
#47
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 9,175
RE: Anyone ever heard of 97.3fp of KE?
Is it possible to have more KE than stored energy?
I don't think it's possible with a 'standard' cam setup. But I'm not going to say it's impossible because some dang engineer will always come up with a way to turn me into a liar. [&:]
12-20-2007, 05:57 PM
#48
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Upstate New York
Posts: 2,435
RE: Anyone ever heard of 97.3fp of KE?
It would be nice if we could get more energy out of a machine than we put in. If it werepossible we could solve all the worlds energy issues in no time. Perpetual motion machines thatactually do work would be everywhere. Sadly it's not possible. Energy can not be created or destroyed, it can only be moved (transferred) around. Think of a bow as nothing more than a simple spring. When you draw the bow you store potential energy by compressing the spring. You've transferred biochemical energy from your body to the limbs. Upon release, thespring decompresses and thestored mechanical energy is transferred to the motion energy (KE) of the arrow. Of course the spring can not release more energy than it has. If the transfer were perfect the arrow (KE) would equal the stored energy (SE). Of course it's not perfect nor will it ever be. Some of that energy is wasted in the form of friction/heat and sound/vibration.
Right now top quality bows shooting heavy arrows can transfer nearly 90% of their stored energy to the arrow. In the future through advances in technology this may increase somewhat but it will never reach reach 100% let alone surpass it.
Note: Cams are actually for the purpose of assisting the transfer of energy from the archer to the bow limbs. In other words they help the archer store more energy in the limbs(spring). They are actually a detriment during the transfer of energy from limbs to arrow as they add virtual mass to the system. It's not incorrect to say that different cams can make a bow shoot faster but it's only indirectly true. The arrow goes faster becasue the archer is able to store more energy in the limbs. I'm sure that was clear as mud!
A recurve bow storing 60 ft/lbs willtheoretically shoot a given arrow faster than a compound storing 60 ft/lbs. because of its lower virtual mass.It is more quiet and doesn't have to waste energy accelerating cams around an axelso all things being equal it should be more efficient. The compound however will of course be much easier t'o draw and that's a big advantage.
Right now top quality bows shooting heavy arrows can transfer nearly 90% of their stored energy to the arrow. In the future through advances in technology this may increase somewhat but it will never reach reach 100% let alone surpass it.
Note: Cams are actually for the purpose of assisting the transfer of energy from the archer to the bow limbs. In other words they help the archer store more energy in the limbs(spring). They are actually a detriment during the transfer of energy from limbs to arrow as they add virtual mass to the system. It's not incorrect to say that different cams can make a bow shoot faster but it's only indirectly true. The arrow goes faster becasue the archer is able to store more energy in the limbs. I'm sure that was clear as mud!
A recurve bow storing 60 ft/lbs willtheoretically shoot a given arrow faster than a compound storing 60 ft/lbs. because of its lower virtual mass.It is more quiet and doesn't have to waste energy accelerating cams around an axelso all things being equal it should be more efficient. The compound however will of course be much easier t'o draw and that's a big advantage.
12-20-2007, 07:50 PM
#50
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Northeast Tennessee
Posts: 5,673
RE: Anyone ever heard of 97.3fp of KE?
ORIGINAL: buckeye
BowTech does
I'd like to find a company that makes left handed stuff in a timely manner. It gets VERY old, lol.