GrumpyTom

Schultzy it is not up to me to "draw the line" or set the age, that is for your government and the people that they govern, But I honestly think that crossbows should be open to everyine, to do for only the disabled or the physically weak .......... well that is a discriminatory act.

I see your a Pope & young member so lets back up to about the late 1960's. This was when compounds were developed and started to come into the hunting worlld (BTW ..... crossbows had been around for a long time even then). Compound gave the shooter extreem advantages over the recurve and lonbow. What you are complaining about today, with the crossbow, were argued then about the compound. The crossbow is more traditional then any compound, just check out the history of archery. YEs crossbows do give the shooters an advantage over the longbow and the recurve, but not any more of an advantage then the compound does. The advantages are different between the compound and crossbow, but they are generally equal.

Now the turm CROSSGUN is a SLANG TERM used by the ANTI-CROSSBOW groups to scare people and to intentally mislead people on crossbows. A gun is an instrument or device that projects an object by a means of fire. Where a bow is an object or device which projects an object by a means of limbs and string. I am sorry but the crossbow uses limbs and strings to project an arrow not by the use of fire.

BUt again, this is not a bashing crossbow thread, if you want an education on crossbows, start another thread and I will give you REAL DATA, not reterick or whims that the anti-crossbow croud puts forth. Again this thread was about choice, choce one if you want and chooce not to use one if that is what you want.

Sliverflicker

Fact is you can copy these forms in most states right off your home PC.
Another fact is, if you can afford a 1000.00 X bow you wont get to bent out of shape forking over 20. bucks the docMay orMaynot charge you when you get your flu shot or whatnot. This reminds me of the guys that spend 3000.00 a year on gear and gas to go hunting and shoots a fawn because their family needs the meat when he could have baught a couple cows!
It was not liar, it was LA LA Land! I have satin the inner circle and seen the going ons! And why is it you dont think a web site to push a product is not a form of lobbying? And I am sureExcalibursdoes notinform their distributors and dealers how much money there is to made if they can just get it in the whole archery season.
The sad thing is, that the ones above that think they cant bowhunt with gramps no more, or that they themselves will no longer be able to hunt because of an injury, are the truly misinformed ones! Most States allow someone with a disability to hunt with a Xbow durring archery season.

You must have me mistaken for a BowTech suck butt? Sure they make a good bow, but your not going to get me to believe they enterd the Xbow market for the betterment of mankind instead of a profit!

Schultzy

I'm not disagreeing with you on advantages they get compaired to compounds, there isn't much. But your telling me pulling a trigger on a device that you don't have to draw is the same thing? Not even close! Thats a hell of alot closer to shooting a gun then shooting a bow. Thats why I said they should be called (Crossguns) I've never heard the word before, just made it up and thought it sounded better then crossbow! Why am I selfish with my opinions and your not with your comments?

GrumpyTom

Schultzy, a crossbow has to be drawn and cocked, that does not happen on a whim, you need to apply all that force into the limbs of the bow. It is just done before hand. What is the difference in the compound when you can have a 99% let off and only have to hold back less then one pound pressure, or better yet, let the limb of the bow hang down which would hold the bow at full draw. I also read an artical, from a regualr vertical magizine, that over 95% of archers now use triggers to release their arrow. Combine that with the 99% letoff and what advantage do you have with the crossbow.

I have never said that crossbows do not give an advantage, just that the crossbow and the compound are generally equal in the gaining of advantages. If you are a compound shooter, then you have no right to complain. If you are a recurve or longbow shooter, then you are at a disadvantage compared to the compound or recurve. I believe that if you eliminate one, then you should also include the other as well. But, both should be allowed for a choice.

But like I said, if you want to debate compound/crossbow, start another thread.


Sliverflicker, putting up a website and forum is an educational tool, not a lobbing act. To lobby a government is to go apply pressure on the government itself. Forms can usually be gotton off the internet, but I guess you think all disabled have as easy a time as you (an abled body person) in getting around. Some States will only allow you to get it, the form filled out by certain people, not just by anyone. A thousand dollars for a bow, not all crossbows cost that much. A good quality Excalibur, complete package can be purchased for about $6-700 is your lucky. I deal with members with a disability and want to hunt with a crossbow. they just want to get back out into the woods like before they were disabled The difficulty they have coming up with enough money to get what they need is unbelivable. You see, limited budget means somewhere they have to go without something to get something else. $10, $20 or eve $100 for these forms to be filled out can mean that they have to do without many things which are needed (yes I have seen $100 for a form). Weither you believe it or not, getting these forms filled out is a major inconvience for the person needing to get it done ......... I wonder if the abled body person would complain if they were required to get these forms filled out (same costs and time requirements) just to say that they were physically fit to use the vertical archery equipment they choose to use.

But like I said, if you want to debate compound/crossbow, start another thread.

Arthur P

Okay, so maybe I'm not gone just yet... [&:]

Schultzy, you and others seem to be laboring under the misconception that crossbows are wearing rifle stocks. Not so. Crossbows were around at least 1,600 years before firearms were invented. (First reliable record of a crossbow being used was in the battle of Mai-Ling, China around 340 BC, but they've discovered bronze crossbow parts they believe date back to around 750 BC.) Then it was another hundred years or so after development ofsmall armssize firearms before someone got the bright idea of mounting one of those original hand cannons onto a crossbow stock.

So, shooting arifle is like shooting a crossbow. Not the other way around.

Of course, you can't pull a compound and keep it drawn all day like you can a crossbow. On the other hand, with a high let-off bow you CAN pull a compound while the animal is coming in your direction, well before it can see the movement,and hold it for an extended amount of time while waiting for the shot opportunity. Whether or not some individuals do or do not use this tactic is immaterial. The capability is there, inherent in the design. IMO, this is no different than using a crossbow because the bow is pre-drawnlong before the shot is presented.

This is why P&Y held out so long with their 65% let-off rule, to discourage that tactic andmaintain an easilydemonstrable difference between compounds and crossbows. But, bowing to demand from the majority of bowhunters, they dropped the rule.Thus, theyhave actuallyforfieted any pretense at having a basis for opposition to crossbows and their decision destroyed any credibility theyhad on the issue.

The ability to maintain the crossbow 'cocked and locked' during hunting is an advantage, but not anything close to the advantage it was 25 years ago when 50% let-off was as high as you could get. Those anti-crossbow arguments that were so effective all those years ago have been rendered moot due to the advances in compound technology.

Cougar Mag

Every crossbow shooter that I know has a handcrank attached, making it easy to get the bow cocked.

I've seen a lot of posts here saying that many are against crossbows for those who cannot physically shoot a bow. Far from the truth! I'd say 100% or near that are for people using crossbows IF they are physically unable to draw a bow.

davidmil

Agreed Cougar. I've only ever heard one ...maybe two people say no crossbows period. I don't care if people use them or not. That's their business if it's legal. I just am not a big fan of them is all. They're too easy to shoot.[8D][8D] LOL Physical problems or handicapped, no problem. Get a crossbow.

GrumpyTom

LIke I said in that above post. How would the abled body person behave if that was applied to them. Why should the disabled be put through all of that when the abled body hunter is not. Is that not discrimination ............ Unfortantly it is so. Even your surpreme Court has ruled that it is. Just to make it the same for everyone that hunts with archery (not just for the the disabled which want the use of crossbows), I think that everyone should have to get the medical form fill out to hunt with archery. For the abled body people, they get a form saying that they are physically fit enough to use a vertical bow and the disabled get one saying that they are not physically fit so they can use the crossbow.

Cougar Mag I have not said that the majority on here are against crossbows. It is actually a very few, but these few are very vocal in thier statements which are usually totally misleading and this upsets me because the other people that do not know anything about crossbows start to believe the untruths. When that happens, it is a total disservice to the whole hunting comunity. I have started to see more and more people stating that they were once anti-crossbow and now do not believe any of the things against the crossbow any more.

There are a variety of different methods for cocking the crossbows, But unlike you, just about everyone I know that has a crossbow does not use the cocking devices, other then a rope cocking aid (lowers the power needed by 50%, but still done by hand).

Schultzy

Being I don't shoot a compound these arguments of mine are very well based! You know that, you've said it yourself when compairing archery equiptment! I don't like it but I guess there's nothing more I can do about it then vote it down in the state I live in when it comes to that which isn't far away. If I knew all they were going to do was allow them for medical reasons, it wouldn't bother me as much. I know better then that though, give them an inch and they'll take a mile and before you know it bow hunting won't be bow hunting no more! Everyone will take the easy road and not have a clue what actual bow hunting is about period! That is what scares the hell right out of me!

GrumpyTom

If your complaing about crossbows because they give advantages to the shooter over the recurve and longbow, then why are you not complaining about the compound. Both the compound and crossbow give an advantage, although the advantages are different, they are generally equal. But like I said, if your going to banish the crossbow for these advantages, then you should also include the compound in the banishment.