huntingson

As a guy who usually pays an outfitter to go on a hunt every year I somewhat agree and somewhat disagree. I have never been guided on a hunt, but I am paying for access to land, food, and a place to sleep. Here is how I look at it:
1. I slept uncomfortably in a tent enough when I was in the Marine Corps. I swore to myself that I would never sleep uncomfortably again.
2. The equipment I would need to buy to do a DIY hunt in an area equivalent to what I pay to hunt on would cost more than the outfitter.
3. I have precious little time to hunt. When I get to camp with an outfitter everything is already set up for me, saving me at least an evening of work where I can instead go hunting.
4. Going with an outfitter is literally the only way to persue certain types of game unless you want to wait your entire life for a tag or rent a bush plane with what MAY be a good pilot to drop you off in the middle of nowhere and hope he comes back or just take a total stab at whether animals are within 100 miles of there risking your whole vacation. There are certain things just best left to the professionals IMO.

Edit: There is a line you can cross however

shed33

Jim, very good points and I agree, there are some hunts, that we "must" pay a guide if we want to hunt. For example I would have to pay a guide to whitetail hunt in Saskatchewan, unlike Alberta were I can go on the hunters host.

I should have added, I am pretty much referring to the spoon fed hunts. I'd go to AK and hunt moose, bear, sheep, etc or Sas for whitetails.. IF I HAD THE $ AND TIME.. maybe someday.. For now its DIY and hunt with good buddies around NA.. good enough to suit my fancy.

huntingson

There I agree 100%. There again is where do you draw the line between hunting and shooting. If I ever felt like I or anyone else was just doing the shooting and leaving the hunting to the outfitter, then that drastically reduces the accomplishment IMO. In fact, what is the accomplishment? Making a good shot?

130woodman

If I could right off my hunting land I would.For Drury it is a business expence. It seems to me if you put in your time you have just as good of a chance as the guy that spends $$$$. Some people don't have the time and to hire an outfitter is the only way to go.If you are talking a canned hunt well that's just shooting. No hunting skill required.
I have dumped alot of $$$ into my property to make it a better place to hunt. It's working but my major expenses are going to go away and I will just have to buy stuff to plant the food plots. If the Drury's paid for the land but never set foot on the property until they went there to hunt then that doesn't make them good hunters. If they scouted it all and hung the stands and put out the cameras and all the other stuff then that makes them good hunters in my eye. They have a good location and the ability to work it.

Justin

Money can buy you the opportunity to experience success, but it is certainly not a guarantee. You still need to have the time, skill, energy, and put forth the effort to be successful on a CONTINUED basis with mature deer.

Furthermore, I think there are different levels of success in every hunter's career. Having the money to go on fully guided hunts every year or lease a tract of prime ground may allow someone with mediocre hunting ability and a decent amount of luck to kill a few decent animals, and maybe even a giant, but to kill a truly mature, giant whitetail more than 2-3 times in your life you need more than just money. I know guys hunting on some of the best ground in the country that have yet to kill ONE buck of a lifetime, let alone kill one every year.

Money affords opportunity, it doesn't guarantee success.

quiksilver

I'd draw the line a little differently... In my opinion, when you pay a trespass fee, or pay for a lease - you're using your cashflow to tilt the table toward you. How? By eliminating or avoiding the competition of public hunting.

Same goes with buying your own land and keeping it off limits to the public. You're hording deer on restricted-access land to boost your own odds at success. Again, eliminating competition and using your wallet tobolster your odds. Same with paying a guide orbuying into a hunt club.

Is it unethical to buy land or pay a lease? Absolutely not. But, in my eyes, does it devaluethose accomplishments? Absolutely. To what degree? That's debatable.

Maybe it's big buck mania. Maybe it's greed. Maybe it's just human nature. But more and more frequently, I'm seeing guys taking advantage of every conceivable avenue-just to help them get the advantage over the competition.

Maybe I'm jaded because I've been sobroke for so long that I've just grown accustomed to doing things the hard way, and balking at anyone who is out there using his financial firepower to eat my lunch... Maybe it's because I really could never be proud ofsomething that wasn't fairgame to everyone else. Maybe it's justthe way I'm programmed. Maybe it's a personality flaw. It is what it is, I guess.

Either way - good stuff guys.

Justin - I agree with that.

bigcountry

I think people on this forum worry too much about what others door how they hunt. They forget, you got to hunt for your own reasons, some for antlers, some for meat, some just to be with thier family, some just for the kill, some to be on TV, and some for a living.

Whatever your reason, don't lose sight of why you hunt. And as long as another hunter isn't bothering your hunt, don't worry about it.

JoeRE

It clearly depends on how 'success' is defined. Dollars can buy inches of antler, but for me it, by itself,can never improve the *quality* of the experiance. So...to me the answer is a resounding NO. Even though it rilessome as I knew it would, I agree with Greg's outfitter comment. I still respect the person that did it, but the harvest...not quite so much. Part of this debate stems from the real issue I think, the aparent need of some people to justifyyour harvest in the eyes of others, before it can be justified to yourself. Shouldn't it be the other way around?

gzg38b

I'm living proof that you CAN buy hunting success to a certain extent. I did it last year when I went to Illinois. A buddy of mine leases nearly 500 acres near Pike County Illinois. His farms are loaded with bucks. I paid him to hunt his property (technically I leased it). He already had the scouting done and the stands set up when I got there.

All I did was sit where he told me to from sunup to sundown. I did manage to rattle in a 120" 9 point that weighed 250 pounds. I shot him and now he's on my wall.

I am very proud of this deer. It's my biggest buck ever. However, I am MORE proud of the 90" bucks I've killed on state land here in MI because I DID IT MYSELF!

Justin

One last thing I was just thinking about in regards to quick's comment about the Drury's leasing ground if a 200" deer is spotted on it. If in fact this is true, which I have heard this several times, and if money can indeed buy success, then why do neither of them have a 200" deer on their wall?

Here you havetwo of themost widely recognized and unquestionably successful professional deer hunters in the world, hunting the best farms that money can buy, and granted they kill some giants, but nothing in the 200 class. Clearly if all it took was money, they'd have a plethora of them hanging above the fireplace, no?

They are not buying success, they are buying the opportunity to be able to put themselves in a position to achieve success, and I don't blame them or anyone else who does the same one bit. You'll never be successful at meeting your own personal goals if the animals you want to harvest don't exist where you hunt. And if it takes money to get those places, then I guess that's just the way life is. The haves, and the have-nots.