Keeping things in perspective.
07-17-2007, 03:20 PM
#61
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Wisconsin and Canada
Posts: 2,415
RE: Keeping things in perspective.
ORIGINAL: NEW61375
What kind of sacrifices does one make to kill big deer? I have killed big/mature deer (for my area) and I did it the same way I kill other deer. I pattern the deer and try to predict their movements as best as possible, pick some good stands and watch the wind/weather. When the rut comes I watch the sign and try to predict some key areas bucks will be cruising more frequently and hopefully catch one of the bucks I have been seeing in the summer slipping and although I am not always successful I put myself in a position to be successful on those bigger deer. The only real sacrifice I see to hunting only big racked bucks (aka mature bucks) is being willing to only kill does (eating your buck tag/s)if that big boy you have been after gives you the slip for the entire season. Now there is nothing wrong with that if that is what you want to do but it doesn't necessarilymake a person some form of elite hunter because they pass smaller racked bucks.
Someone in IL might pass 130" deer up, that same hunter would be foolish to do that in Southeast VA or NC. Not that the bucksdon't getthat big herebut more so it takes them longer to get bigger.
Ifa hunterkills a 120"4 year old buck in VA and another hunter kills 160" 4 year old in IL, does that make the guy in IL a better hunter? Not necessarily it just means he killed a bigger buck based on antlerinches and too many hunters feel that the measure of the antler inchesequates to how the hunter measures up and I personally don't agree with that. I know too many great hunters (in my eyes) that are not trophy hunters but great hunters none the less to buy into that theory. Just my opinion.
ORIGINAL: _Dan
Exactly. A lot of people talk big in the off season.But, when the moment of truth arrives, the arrows start flying.
Like IL-Cornfed has said many times......most people want to kill amature buck, but don't want to make the sacrafices or have the will power to hold off on the young ones.
ORIGINAL: HuntingBry
I think IL Cornfed is getting at that a lot of people "talk" about passing onyounger bucks and honestly have the intention of doing it, but one that little guy with horns is in front of you that trigger finger gets awfully itchy.
I think IL Cornfed is getting at that a lot of people "talk" about passing onyounger bucks and honestly have the intention of doing it, but one that little guy with horns is in front of you that trigger finger gets awfully itchy.
Like IL-Cornfed has said many times......most people want to kill amature buck, but don't want to make the sacrafices or have the will power to hold off on the young ones.
Someone in IL might pass 130" deer up, that same hunter would be foolish to do that in Southeast VA or NC. Not that the bucksdon't getthat big herebut more so it takes them longer to get bigger.
Ifa hunterkills a 120"4 year old buck in VA and another hunter kills 160" 4 year old in IL, does that make the guy in IL a better hunter? Not necessarily it just means he killed a bigger buck based on antlerinches and too many hunters feel that the measure of the antler inchesequates to how the hunter measures up and I personally don't agree with that. I know too many great hunters (in my eyes) that are not trophy hunters but great hunters none the less to buy into that theory. Just my opinion.
I don't see where it was hard to understand what I was saying, unless you mis-read it. I used the term mature bucks and not big bucks. There are mature deer everywhere, but not big racks. I don't think the only good hunters are the ones shooting the big bucks, but they are the ones shooting the mature ones. Location means nothing.
The sacrafices and will power I was talking about is passing on young bucks and knowing that there is the possibility of not killing a buck at all.
07-17-2007, 03:24 PM
#62
Dominant Buck
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location:
Posts: 21,043
RE: Keeping things in perspective.
Dan:
I see what you're saying......but the thread I had out the other day was about public perception.
They don't run the contest on Age, either.....so yes....location DOES matter.
(Otherwise....I agree totally with your assessment. There are mature deer everywhere. Are there BIG BUCKS everywhere? Nope)
I see what you're saying......but the thread I had out the other day was about public perception.
They don't run the contest on Age, either.....so yes....location DOES matter.
(Otherwise....I agree totally with your assessment. There are mature deer everywhere. Are there BIG BUCKS everywhere? Nope)
07-17-2007, 03:27 PM
#63
Site Bouncer
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Illinois
Posts: 4,099
RE: Keeping things in perspective.
I like this subject so I will chime in on it.
Coug's, shoot what YOU want to shoot. Try your best to keep the herd healthy where you live and you can ask no more from yourself as a hunter.
Here where I hunt there are deer everywhere, lots of does and lots of bucks in every age group. I have it pretty easy in my approach to QDM. When I say QDM I mean the original intent of it and that's to keep the herds as healthy as possible. I will probably kill up to 5 does like I do pretty much every year. This is thenumber one priorityon the QDM list, there are just too may deer for this area period.
I'm not concerned in the least about the age group of the males, there are just too many so I'm pretty sure every age group is thriving. Thereforewill shoot any buck I feel like when the time is right. Some years I am after certain slammers I happen to see while scouting, others I just wait to see what comes along. Sometime it happens that a large antlered mature deer meets his demise and others it's that basket six that gets the pointy end.
Anyone who hunts in my area (or most of Illinois for that matter) who tells me to pass on smaller bucks in the name of QDM is either not in touch with the deer populations here or is hiding behind QDM in the attempt topush their true agenda and that's to grow bigger antlered deer and stack the odds in their favor for arrowing one. If that's what you want fine, but don't call it QDM and don't force me to go along with it. I would just rather kill one that Mother Nature grew and not me.
Coug's, shoot what YOU want to shoot. Try your best to keep the herd healthy where you live and you can ask no more from yourself as a hunter.
Here where I hunt there are deer everywhere, lots of does and lots of bucks in every age group. I have it pretty easy in my approach to QDM. When I say QDM I mean the original intent of it and that's to keep the herds as healthy as possible. I will probably kill up to 5 does like I do pretty much every year. This is thenumber one priorityon the QDM list, there are just too may deer for this area period.
I'm not concerned in the least about the age group of the males, there are just too many so I'm pretty sure every age group is thriving. Thereforewill shoot any buck I feel like when the time is right. Some years I am after certain slammers I happen to see while scouting, others I just wait to see what comes along. Sometime it happens that a large antlered mature deer meets his demise and others it's that basket six that gets the pointy end.
Anyone who hunts in my area (or most of Illinois for that matter) who tells me to pass on smaller bucks in the name of QDM is either not in touch with the deer populations here or is hiding behind QDM in the attempt topush their true agenda and that's to grow bigger antlered deer and stack the odds in their favor for arrowing one. If that's what you want fine, but don't call it QDM and don't force me to go along with it. I would just rather kill one that Mother Nature grew and not me.
07-17-2007, 03:36 PM
#64
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Southeast, VA
Posts: 2,119
RE: Keeping things in perspective.
I never said I didn't understand you I simply asked what sacrifices. You said what I thought you would say, the sacrifice is passing on young bucks. I see that as a choice. You choose to pass on younger bucks I choose not to mainly beacause of the number of buck tags I get. If I have three buck tags I would have to be one heck of a hunter and have a whole lot of time to hunt to successfullykill three maturebucks this season. So letssay I use two of them onbucks that are 3 or under in the big picture I still have one I can useif the big boy decides to cooperate and there will still be bigmature deer next season because like you said they are there. Now granted there might be two less but two less than what? Some unknown number ofmature bucks because many of them are never seen anyway. Butthey are there, I'll give you that but I am definitely not gonna piss away three tags because the deer that came by today didn't have his ID and looked a little young.Instead I'll hunt as much as I can and make the most ofmy trips out, if I have 3 day weekend to hunt- no I probably won't shoot the first buck that comes by, if I am slipping out for an evening hunt I might. Now I can surely understand how in another region if a hunter only gets one buck tag he would hunt differently andif I hunted somewhere like thatI probably would too. But I don't so I don't.
07-17-2007, 03:38 PM
#66
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 7,208
RE: Keeping things in perspective.
I've argued enough in the past about what to shoot/what to pass....
My sincere question arises regarding the age estimation from cougs about the size of his deer. I know TN is southand all, but what he's calling a 2.5 year old buck is not even a NICE 1.5 up here. I want to know if these are his guesses, or has he gotten the info from jawbone aged deer from thier dept of wildlife?
My sincere question arises regarding the age estimation from cougs about the size of his deer. I know TN is southand all, but what he's calling a 2.5 year old buck is not even a NICE 1.5 up here. I want to know if these are his guesses, or has he gotten the info from jawbone aged deer from thier dept of wildlife?
07-17-2007, 03:40 PM
#67
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Wisconsin and Canada
Posts: 2,415
RE: Keeping things in perspective.
ORIGINAL: GMMAT
Dan:
I see what you're saying......but the thread I had out the other day was about public perception.
They don't run the contest on Age, either.....so yes....location DOES matter.
(Otherwise....I agree totally with your assessment. There are mature deer everywhere. Are there BIG BUCKS everywhere? Nope)
Dan:
I see what you're saying......but the thread I had out the other day was about public perception.
They don't run the contest on Age, either.....so yes....location DOES matter.
(Otherwise....I agree totally with your assessment. There are mature deer everywhere. Are there BIG BUCKS everywhere? Nope)
I'm not talking aboutthe contest, inches, rack size, body size, hoof size, bra size, etc. I'm only talking about mature deer. Ihave never and will never.....ever....refer to rack size when I talk about hunting a certain area, other than my own.
But I think you understand that.?.?[:-]
07-17-2007, 03:46 PM
#69
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Wisconsin and Canada
Posts: 2,415
RE: Keeping things in perspective.
ORIGINAL: NEW61375
I never said I didn't understand you I simply asked what sacrifices. You said what I thought you would say, the sacrifice is passing on young bucks. I see that as a choice. You choose to pass on younger bucks I choose not to mainly beacause of the number of buck tags I get.
I never said I didn't understand you I simply asked what sacrifices. You said what I thought you would say, the sacrifice is passing on young bucks. I see that as a choice. You choose to pass on younger bucks I choose not to mainly beacause of the number of buck tags I get.
Choice or sacrafice......same thing to me.
Basicly, we're on the same page.
07-17-2007, 03:49 PM
#70
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: The OH-IO
Posts: 7,103
RE: Keeping things in perspective.
LMAO.... I just looked in my MOST recent P&Y Newsletter and you just had a 141 inch buck entered from Stokes County..... 1 measley county North.
That guy must not go to your Bow shop
That guy must not go to your Bow shop