Keeping things in perspective.
07-17-2007, 07:44 PM
#132
Dominant Buck
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location:
Posts: 21,043
RE: Keeping things in perspective.
There's a 1,013 yr old 7"er, here.....but it probably looks like a 1,010 to a lot of you in the big unicorn states. I'm thinking of quitting my good job......asking Lisa to leave hers....uprooting my son......and doing what it takes to be a uni-slammer-whammer.
07-17-2007, 07:53 PM
#134
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: PA
Posts: 8,167
RE: Keeping things in perspective.
ORIGINAL: _Dan
What would a unicorn with a 9" horn score?
What would a unicorn with a 9" horn score?
Why kill a fawn unicorn when if its meat you want shoot the does.
Q.U.M.
Let then go so they can grow.............another horn.........
07-17-2007, 07:57 PM
#136
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Oct 1998
Location: Hughesville, PA USA
Posts: 18,322
RE: Keeping things in perspective.
After reading each post, and boy am I exhausted...I think several people are missing the big picture.
Things I've taken from this thread are this.
1. Mature bucks are everywhere.
That statement is true however, the amount of mature animals clearly differ in each LOCATION making location a very important factor in percentage of chance to take a said mature animal and I too consider a 3.5 as good enough to be mature. If a 5.5 year mature thinker thinks this is wrong and I trust that there are some than it's only a matter of perspective and really like most of what is said in this forum, isn't everything perspective and that's hard to argue about.
2. There is no possible way we can compare Ohio to NC nor would I NOW compare PA to NC but I wouldn't go so far as to compare PA to let's say KS, IL, IA although things are changing, slowly. OHIO is becoming a big buck state, that doesn't happen overnight nor did it. OF COURSE there are big bucks (mature) in NC, not the numbers there are in OH, PA, etc...having been there, GMMAT sure as hell knows what he is doing and knows his animals better than most people on these forums know theres. Without taking a stance either way, I ask those of you thinking location is not the critical rule in taking a "big" "mature" or "P&Y" animal, where are you going to go.....buckeye, would you travel to NC seeking said animal, mobow, where do you want to hunt, NC or OH....If I was booking a hunt to up my chances on a "Mature" animal, I'm heading to OH or another Midwest state. I'm headed to NC this fall, not to hunt mature animals but to assist in what needs done, thinning the doe population so that mature animals will actually increase. Everyone who knows QDM know that too many does will impact your mature animals but more importantly antler size signficantly!
Mobo, I can attest that GMMAT's buck last year was no doubt a 3.5 year old, I can also attest that there is no comparing NC whitetails to PA whitetails. My 2.5 year old could actually dwarf GMMAT's 3.5 year old and after watching 70 some animals pass my stand in NC, I could not pick out a mature doe.....I was trying to compare my mature doe to his, not a fair comparison and what would be considered a 2.5 year old doe in NC looked like my fawns. I was astonished.
Sure he could move, WHY.....he has a job to do, take as many does as possible and I would love to have that opportunity, that's why I'm headed south in Sept....and if a mature buck walks by, I'm sure he'll show it to us but when you watching 100's of deer, a chance at a mature animals dwindles compared to watching my 20 a season in a mature populated herd.
It's all about how a herd is managed and in Jeff's area, because of the protection of the park area, the herd has been mismanaged and now Jeff in his third season has an almost impossible task. In his second season I'd consider him more successful than most of us in our 20 sometin season. I know he's more successful in 2 seasons than I was in my first 10......
There is no arguing that Jeff doesn't have the ability to shoot mature deer but it's a matter of location. He could move but if I lived where he did, I wouldn't move, I'd relish the opportunity to bowhunt like he does. I got one tag last year, I really had to pick and choose and was very happy with my 2.5 year old. I would have been happier with that 4.5 year old I missed however, he was never seen again. That's PA and I'd like to think I know my land and I know how to bowhunt whitetails.
Some herds are better than most. I can attest as well that if I lived in a "richer" whitetail enviroment that my class of animals on my wall would be much higher.
A 200" monster was taken about a mile from my home. I absolutely had no permission to hunt any of the land that whitetail lived or frequented. I had no chance at patterning or killing that whitetail no more than GMMAT did hunting the county over.
I applaud Cougars in his statement. In his young carreer of hunting whitetails, I think he has a great perspective.
Things I've taken from this thread are this.
1. Mature bucks are everywhere.
That statement is true however, the amount of mature animals clearly differ in each LOCATION making location a very important factor in percentage of chance to take a said mature animal and I too consider a 3.5 as good enough to be mature. If a 5.5 year mature thinker thinks this is wrong and I trust that there are some than it's only a matter of perspective and really like most of what is said in this forum, isn't everything perspective and that's hard to argue about.
2. There is no possible way we can compare Ohio to NC nor would I NOW compare PA to NC but I wouldn't go so far as to compare PA to let's say KS, IL, IA although things are changing, slowly. OHIO is becoming a big buck state, that doesn't happen overnight nor did it. OF COURSE there are big bucks (mature) in NC, not the numbers there are in OH, PA, etc...having been there, GMMAT sure as hell knows what he is doing and knows his animals better than most people on these forums know theres. Without taking a stance either way, I ask those of you thinking location is not the critical rule in taking a "big" "mature" or "P&Y" animal, where are you going to go.....buckeye, would you travel to NC seeking said animal, mobow, where do you want to hunt, NC or OH....If I was booking a hunt to up my chances on a "Mature" animal, I'm heading to OH or another Midwest state. I'm headed to NC this fall, not to hunt mature animals but to assist in what needs done, thinning the doe population so that mature animals will actually increase. Everyone who knows QDM know that too many does will impact your mature animals but more importantly antler size signficantly!
Mobo, I can attest that GMMAT's buck last year was no doubt a 3.5 year old, I can also attest that there is no comparing NC whitetails to PA whitetails. My 2.5 year old could actually dwarf GMMAT's 3.5 year old and after watching 70 some animals pass my stand in NC, I could not pick out a mature doe.....I was trying to compare my mature doe to his, not a fair comparison and what would be considered a 2.5 year old doe in NC looked like my fawns. I was astonished.
Sure he could move, WHY.....he has a job to do, take as many does as possible and I would love to have that opportunity, that's why I'm headed south in Sept....and if a mature buck walks by, I'm sure he'll show it to us but when you watching 100's of deer, a chance at a mature animals dwindles compared to watching my 20 a season in a mature populated herd.
It's all about how a herd is managed and in Jeff's area, because of the protection of the park area, the herd has been mismanaged and now Jeff in his third season has an almost impossible task. In his second season I'd consider him more successful than most of us in our 20 sometin season. I know he's more successful in 2 seasons than I was in my first 10......
There is no arguing that Jeff doesn't have the ability to shoot mature deer but it's a matter of location. He could move but if I lived where he did, I wouldn't move, I'd relish the opportunity to bowhunt like he does. I got one tag last year, I really had to pick and choose and was very happy with my 2.5 year old. I would have been happier with that 4.5 year old I missed however, he was never seen again. That's PA and I'd like to think I know my land and I know how to bowhunt whitetails.
Some herds are better than most. I can attest as well that if I lived in a "richer" whitetail enviroment that my class of animals on my wall would be much higher.
A 200" monster was taken about a mile from my home. I absolutely had no permission to hunt any of the land that whitetail lived or frequented. I had no chance at patterning or killing that whitetail no more than GMMAT did hunting the county over.
I applaud Cougars in his statement. In his young carreer of hunting whitetails, I think he has a great perspective.
07-17-2007, 07:57 PM
#137
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Wisconsin and Canada
Posts: 2,415
RE: Keeping things in perspective.
ORIGINAL: bawanajim
Why kill a fawn unicorn when if its meat you want shoot the does.
Q.U.M.
Let then go so they can grow.............another horn.........
Why kill a fawn unicorn when if its meat you want shoot the does.
Q.U.M.
Let then go so they can grow.............another horn.........
Its not a fawn, its a yearling with spots.
07-17-2007, 08:00 PM
#138
Giant Nontypical
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Northeast Tennessee
Posts: 5,673
RE: Keeping things in perspective.
ORIGINAL: Rob/PA Bowyer
After reading each post, and boy am I exhausted...I think several people are missing the big picture.
Things I've taken from this thread are this.
1. Mature bucks are everywhere.
That statement is true however, the amount of mature animals clearly differ in each LOCATION making location a very important factor in percentage of chance to take a said mature animal and I too consider a 3.5 as good enough to be mature. If a 5.5 year mature thinker thinks this is wrong and I trust that there are some than it's only a matter of perspective and really like most of what is said in this forum, isn't everything perspective and that's hard to argue about.
2. There is no possible way we can compare Ohio to NC nor would I NOW compare PA to NC but I wouldn't go so far as to compare PA to let's say KS, IL, IA although things are changing, slowly. OHIO is becoming a big buck state, that doesn't happen overnight nor did it. OF COURSE there are big bucks (mature) in NC, not the numbers there are in OH, PA, etc...having been there, GMMAT sure as hell knows what he is doing and knows his animals better than most people on these forums know theres. Without taking a stance either way, I ask those of you thinking location is not the critical rule in taking a "big" "mature" or "P&Y" animal, where are you going to go.....buckeye, would you travel to NC seeking said animal, mobow, where do you want to hunt, NC or OH....If I was booking a hunt to up my chances on a "Mature" animal, I'm heading to OH or another Midwest state. I'm headed to NC this fall, not to hunt mature animals but to assist in what needs done, thinning the doe population so that mature animals will actually increase. Everyone who knows QDM know that too many does will impact your mature animals but more importantly antler size signficantly!
Mobo, I can attest that GMMAT's buck last year was no doubt a 3.5 year old, I can also attest that there is no comparing NC whitetails to PA whitetails. My 2.5 year old could actually dwarf GMMAT's 3.5 year old and after watching 70 some animals pass my stand in NC, I could not pick out a mature doe.....I was trying to compare my mature doe to his, not a fair comparison and what would be considered a 2.5 year old doe in NC looked like my fawns. I was astonished.
Sure he could move, WHY.....he has a job to do, take as many does as possible and I would love to have that opportunity, that's why I'm headed south in Sept....and if a mature buck walks by, I'm sure he'll show it to us but when you watching 100's of deer, a chance at a mature animals dwindles compared to watching my 20 a season in a mature populated herd.
It's all about how a herd is managed and in Jeff's area, because of the protection of the park area, the herd has been mismanaged and now Jeff in his third season has an almost impossible task. In his second season I'd consider him more successful than most of us in our 20 sometin season. I know he's more successful in 2 seasons than I was in my first 10......
There is no arguing that Jeff doesn't have the ability to shoot mature deer but it's a matter of location. He could move but if I lived where he did, I wouldn't move, I'd relish the opportunity to bowhunt like he does. I got one tag last year, I really had to pick and choose and was very happy with my 2.5 year old. I would have been happier with that 4.5 year old I missed however, he was never seen again. That's PA and I'd like to think I know my land and I know how to bowhunt whitetails.
Some herds are better than most. I can attest as well that if I lived in a "richer" whitetail enviroment that my class of animals on my wall would be much higher.
A 200" monster was taken about a mile from my home. I absolutely had no permission to hunt any of the land that whitetail lived or frequented. I had no chance at patterning or killing that whitetail no more than GMMAT did hunting the county over.
I applaud Cougars in his statement. In his young carreer of hunting whitetails, I think he has a great perspective.
After reading each post, and boy am I exhausted...I think several people are missing the big picture.
Things I've taken from this thread are this.
1. Mature bucks are everywhere.
That statement is true however, the amount of mature animals clearly differ in each LOCATION making location a very important factor in percentage of chance to take a said mature animal and I too consider a 3.5 as good enough to be mature. If a 5.5 year mature thinker thinks this is wrong and I trust that there are some than it's only a matter of perspective and really like most of what is said in this forum, isn't everything perspective and that's hard to argue about.
2. There is no possible way we can compare Ohio to NC nor would I NOW compare PA to NC but I wouldn't go so far as to compare PA to let's say KS, IL, IA although things are changing, slowly. OHIO is becoming a big buck state, that doesn't happen overnight nor did it. OF COURSE there are big bucks (mature) in NC, not the numbers there are in OH, PA, etc...having been there, GMMAT sure as hell knows what he is doing and knows his animals better than most people on these forums know theres. Without taking a stance either way, I ask those of you thinking location is not the critical rule in taking a "big" "mature" or "P&Y" animal, where are you going to go.....buckeye, would you travel to NC seeking said animal, mobow, where do you want to hunt, NC or OH....If I was booking a hunt to up my chances on a "Mature" animal, I'm heading to OH or another Midwest state. I'm headed to NC this fall, not to hunt mature animals but to assist in what needs done, thinning the doe population so that mature animals will actually increase. Everyone who knows QDM know that too many does will impact your mature animals but more importantly antler size signficantly!
Mobo, I can attest that GMMAT's buck last year was no doubt a 3.5 year old, I can also attest that there is no comparing NC whitetails to PA whitetails. My 2.5 year old could actually dwarf GMMAT's 3.5 year old and after watching 70 some animals pass my stand in NC, I could not pick out a mature doe.....I was trying to compare my mature doe to his, not a fair comparison and what would be considered a 2.5 year old doe in NC looked like my fawns. I was astonished.
Sure he could move, WHY.....he has a job to do, take as many does as possible and I would love to have that opportunity, that's why I'm headed south in Sept....and if a mature buck walks by, I'm sure he'll show it to us but when you watching 100's of deer, a chance at a mature animals dwindles compared to watching my 20 a season in a mature populated herd.
It's all about how a herd is managed and in Jeff's area, because of the protection of the park area, the herd has been mismanaged and now Jeff in his third season has an almost impossible task. In his second season I'd consider him more successful than most of us in our 20 sometin season. I know he's more successful in 2 seasons than I was in my first 10......
There is no arguing that Jeff doesn't have the ability to shoot mature deer but it's a matter of location. He could move but if I lived where he did, I wouldn't move, I'd relish the opportunity to bowhunt like he does. I got one tag last year, I really had to pick and choose and was very happy with my 2.5 year old. I would have been happier with that 4.5 year old I missed however, he was never seen again. That's PA and I'd like to think I know my land and I know how to bowhunt whitetails.
Some herds are better than most. I can attest as well that if I lived in a "richer" whitetail enviroment that my class of animals on my wall would be much higher.
A 200" monster was taken about a mile from my home. I absolutely had no permission to hunt any of the land that whitetail lived or frequented. I had no chance at patterning or killing that whitetail no more than GMMAT did hunting the county over.
I applaud Cougars in his statement. In his young carreer of hunting whitetails, I think he has a great perspective.
Great posting Rob and thank you.
07-17-2007, 08:03 PM
#139
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: PA
Posts: 8,167
RE: Keeping things in perspective.
ORIGINAL: _Dan
Its not a fawn, its a yearling with spots.
ORIGINAL: bawanajim
Why kill a fawn unicorn when if its meat you want shoot the does.
Q.U.M.
Let then go so they can grow.............another horn.........
Why kill a fawn unicorn when if its meat you want shoot the does.
Q.U.M.
Let then go so they can grow.............another horn.........
Its not a fawn, its a yearling with spots.
07-17-2007, 08:06 PM
#140
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Wisconsin and Canada
Posts: 2,415
RE: Keeping things in perspective.
ORIGINAL: Rob/PA Bowyer
Sure he could move, WHY.....he has a job to do,
Sure he could move, WHY.....he has a job to do,
I'll be hard, but well worth it.
Good luck!