Which way do you "lean"?
07-12-2007, 05:14 AM
#21
Dominant Buck
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location:
Posts: 21,043
RE: Which way do you "lean"?
I think I have the best of both worlds. I shoot a Bowtech Allegiance....and I don't think the draw cycle is harsh, at all (I have the smooth mods).
Mobo.....what weight arrow are you shooting to get 320fps out of your setup? You're not talking IBO? My bow IBO's faster than yours....and I'm not getting those speeds. Curious.
Mobo.....what weight arrow are you shooting to get 320fps out of your setup? You're not talking IBO? My bow IBO's faster than yours....and I'm not getting those speeds. Curious.
07-12-2007, 05:54 AM
#22
Giant Nontypical
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Northeast Tennessee
Posts: 5,673
RE: Which way do you "lean"?
ORIGINAL: GMMAT
I think I have the best of both worlds. I shoot a Bowtech Allegiance....and I don't think the draw cycle is harsh, at all (I have the smooth mods).
Mobo.....what weight arrow are you shooting to get 320fps out of your setup? You're not talking IBO? My bow IBO's faster than yours....and I'm not getting those speeds. Curious.
I think I have the best of both worlds. I shoot a Bowtech Allegiance....and I don't think the draw cycle is harsh, at all (I have the smooth mods).
Mobo.....what weight arrow are you shooting to get 320fps out of your setup? You're not talking IBO? My bow IBO's faster than yours....and I'm not getting those speeds. Curious.
I think I remember reading somewhere that his arrow is weighing right around 350grs. Match that with 30" draw and right near 70lbs and you have 320. Maybe his are 348? not sure.
...wait what was the question again???
07-12-2007, 07:38 AM
#24
Dominant Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: land of the Lilliputians, In the state of insanity
Posts: 26,274
RE: Which way do you "lean"?
I have to agree with others. Speed is no good if you cant shoot it good. The best bow configuration is the bow you can shoot the best. Hell, I kill as many deer with my slow recurves as I do my smoking fast compounds. In the end, the animals are just as dead.
07-12-2007, 07:49 AM
#25
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location:
Posts: 1,438
RE: Which way do you "lean"?
Cougar,
Don't know where I "lean," but I'm guessing since I shoot a Tribute with Speed mods, you would
put me in the speed camp. But I'm going to violate my own standards and say that this "smoothness"
thing is partly one of personal preference. I really like the heavily frontloaded draw cycle of
the Tribute. It seemed like a steep ramp-up (where all your natural power is), and then evens out
for a lot of the cycle. I like it, whether other people call it "smooth" or not.
Don't know where I "lean," but I'm guessing since I shoot a Tribute with Speed mods, you would
put me in the speed camp. But I'm going to violate my own standards and say that this "smoothness"
thing is partly one of personal preference. I really like the heavily frontloaded draw cycle of
the Tribute. It seemed like a steep ramp-up (where all your natural power is), and then evens out
for a lot of the cycle. I like it, whether other people call it "smooth" or not.
07-12-2007, 08:02 AM
#26
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 5,716
RE: Which way do you "lean"?
I think speed bows have always gotten a bad rep from the hunting public. Honestly,two of the best shooting bows I've ever shot were speed bows (Black Knight & HCA Iron Mace).
The problem is:most of the people buying them in the past hadn't been shooting long enough to "know how to shoot it" - usually on a speed bow, you're going to have a shorter BH, a harder draw cycle, etc... But it is what it is, you're still drawing X pounds - same as you would be with a "smooth" draw cycle - there's just more area under the force-draw curve. You are doing a little more "work." Still peaked at X, though. With the short brace, if you're not holding it right, you're eating watch straps. You need a solid follow through. You need to be able to hold it. Most guys just weren't good enough to shoot those bows (bad form, bad grip, bad follow-through, bad everything).
Technology has gave us the ability to get past those concerns, however. With string loops to keep you from torquing the release, dropaway rests (that are a crutch for "peaking," "torquing," and "deathgrip"), and STS units to keep the string off your arm on short BH- almost anyone can shoot a speed demon, and shoot itwell.
It used to be that when you picked up a real racehorse (I'm thinking back to the top end PSE Mach bows) - with the cams preloaded up, overdraw, thin strung, pencil arrow, tiny BH - and you shot it - it was really something. Sounded like a bomb, tore the skin off your arm, and was not pleasant at all.
Compare that to an Allegiance or an Iron Mace or a Black Knight or a Vulcan. There's no contest. These bows are as smooth and soft and quiet as their "smooth" competitors (or at least very comparable).
Maybe that's just me trying to justify why I do what I do (b/c I'm a "speed guy"), or maybe there's some truth in there. Riding a racehorse isn't hard anymore. You have beginners out there shooting XForces, and doing it very, verywell. That should tell you something.
Also, as some of you know, I've been doing a little bit of "high speed" testing of my own. You wouldn't believe the difference in yardage markings between my old bow (285), and my new bow (365). I really think the new "speed bows" are giving us the best of both worlds. They're really no louder than theslower competitors, other than the increased string vibration (hum) that comes with a higher string speed. Put an STS or some leeches on there, and you're looking at a bow that's as quiet and soft as any other bow on the market.
The problem is:most of the people buying them in the past hadn't been shooting long enough to "know how to shoot it" - usually on a speed bow, you're going to have a shorter BH, a harder draw cycle, etc... But it is what it is, you're still drawing X pounds - same as you would be with a "smooth" draw cycle - there's just more area under the force-draw curve. You are doing a little more "work." Still peaked at X, though. With the short brace, if you're not holding it right, you're eating watch straps. You need a solid follow through. You need to be able to hold it. Most guys just weren't good enough to shoot those bows (bad form, bad grip, bad follow-through, bad everything).
Technology has gave us the ability to get past those concerns, however. With string loops to keep you from torquing the release, dropaway rests (that are a crutch for "peaking," "torquing," and "deathgrip"), and STS units to keep the string off your arm on short BH- almost anyone can shoot a speed demon, and shoot itwell.
It used to be that when you picked up a real racehorse (I'm thinking back to the top end PSE Mach bows) - with the cams preloaded up, overdraw, thin strung, pencil arrow, tiny BH - and you shot it - it was really something. Sounded like a bomb, tore the skin off your arm, and was not pleasant at all.
Compare that to an Allegiance or an Iron Mace or a Black Knight or a Vulcan. There's no contest. These bows are as smooth and soft and quiet as their "smooth" competitors (or at least very comparable).
Maybe that's just me trying to justify why I do what I do (b/c I'm a "speed guy"), or maybe there's some truth in there. Riding a racehorse isn't hard anymore. You have beginners out there shooting XForces, and doing it very, verywell. That should tell you something.
Also, as some of you know, I've been doing a little bit of "high speed" testing of my own. You wouldn't believe the difference in yardage markings between my old bow (285), and my new bow (365). I really think the new "speed bows" are giving us the best of both worlds. They're really no louder than theslower competitors, other than the increased string vibration (hum) that comes with a higher string speed. Put an STS or some leeches on there, and you're looking at a bow that's as quiet and soft as any other bow on the market.
07-12-2007, 11:16 AM
#28
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Phoenixville, PA USA
Posts: 5,541
RE: Which way do you "lean"?
I used to agree with Quick and opt for speed so long as I didn't sacrifice too much silence. Now, after a number of years shooting speedy bows with harsh draws my shoulders are paying the price and I now look more for a smoother draw.
As Quick mentioned technology has caught up and made speed bows much easier to shoot, but it has also caught up and made smooth bows a lot faster. So, I'll take a smooth draw with the speeds that I used to have on speed bows I'd have to pull hard through the entire cycle and enjoy my shooting a lot more.
As Quick mentioned technology has caught up and made speed bows much easier to shoot, but it has also caught up and made smooth bows a lot faster. So, I'll take a smooth draw with the speeds that I used to have on speed bows I'd have to pull hard through the entire cycle and enjoy my shooting a lot more.
