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Where is the Science?

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Old 07-02-2007, 08:36 PM
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Default Where is the Science?

This is a non-sarcastic question. I have heard and read where a deer can break individual odors/smells down to so many parts per million. Where is the Science behind this? Did the deer tell someone? I know they have a different way of smelling due to the type nose they have, but in all honesty can someone direct me to the proof behind these statements?

LT
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Old 07-02-2007, 08:51 PM
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Default RE: Where is the Science?

Guess no scientists on today?
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Old 07-02-2007, 09:20 PM
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Default RE: Where is the Science?

Helloooooo, Ya'll know how sensitive I get when no one responds to my threads.I see a lot of good minds online right now and none are responding. A mind is a terrible thing to waste. Unless, of course it's um, how you say, expendable.

LT
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Old 07-02-2007, 09:25 PM
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Default RE: Where is the Science?

Im here LTK. Im no scientist but ive heard the same thing. Only the deer no I guess
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Old 07-02-2007, 09:30 PM
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Default RE: Where is the Science?

I guess for me, the only science i need is when that deers noise goes in the air 200 yards away and he turns and walks the other direction. No doubt I was BUSTED.......
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Old 07-02-2007, 09:31 PM
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Default RE: Where is the Science?

How do you know what part he smelled at 200yds?
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Old 07-02-2007, 09:38 PM
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Default RE: Where is the Science?

The biggest thing I relate to this topic is what we know about dogs. Because we are able train them to smell a variety of substances, including human scent (tracking dogs). There is a ton of proof out there in-regard to the powers of a dogs ability to smell human scent (myth busters did a great test of this).

I've heard a deer's sence of smell is right-up there, so you can imagine what they are able to smell in-comparison. If you can find a document comparing the two, you will realize the idea of "scent elimination" to the point where a whitetail can't smell you is simply rediculous.
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Old 07-02-2007, 09:42 PM
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Default RE: Where is the Science?

Well I dont think it is a matter of which part he smelled. It is a matter of how fine of particals he can smell. I have no idea of the exact numbers on this but it is just for example. Ok just for easy figuring say humans can smell down to 500 parts per million. That means if there was one million cubic feet of air and 500cubic feetof that were "scent" we could detect that. Now lets just say a deer can smell down to 10 parts per million. Take that same one million cubic feet of air and he would only need 10 cubic feet of "scent" mixed in there to detect it. Now this is all just speculation on my part but this is how I have always understood "parts per million". Some one please correct me if i am wrong.
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Old 07-02-2007, 10:16 PM
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Default RE: Where is the Science?

You've got Google, don'tcha? We'll be waiting for the report on your research.
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Old 07-02-2007, 11:25 PM
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Default RE: Where is the Science?

Well so far this is all I can find ArthurP. By the way, your membership to the COF club is up for renewal.

Dr. Karl V. Miller
Daniel B. Warnell School of Forest Resources
The University of Georgia
There's little doubt that the most important sense to white-tailed deer is the sense of smell. Deer rely on their noses to warn them of the presence of predators and to help them find food. However, the most important function of scents is their role in communication with other deer. Simply through the sense of smell, deer can recognize other deer, learn about the other deer's sex, dominance status, reproductive state, and so on. Because we perceive our world primarily through visual means, it is hard for us to fathom the importance of odors in the world of other animals, such as whitetails. To just get a clue about what types of information deer get out of each whiff of air, we have to spend months, or years, in the laboratory working with highly sophisticated analytical equipment. Even after we identify a number of suspected compounds, we still only have a guess as to what these compounds tell the deer, if anything. We can test these compounds, and see how deer react to them. However, in many cases deer don't react to them at all. Does this mean that the deer didn't receive any information from them? Hardly! Just because the deer didn't give a behavioral response doesn't mean that it didn't learn something. On top of that, the context in which the scents are presented certainly influences how a deer may respond. What all this means is that until someone figures out how to wire up a deer's nose to a human, or to put a human's mind into a deer's brain, we will never be certain what a deer smells when it smells something.
Two Noses? Few hunters realize that a deer actually has two 'noses'. The second nose is technically not a nose, but it serves some of the same purpose. If you look on the roof of the deer's mouth you will see a diamond shaped structure with a small passage leading into the palate. This additional nose, called the vomeronasal organ (VNO), is similar to the Jacobson's organ that snakes use to 'taste' the air. Deer use the VNO exclusively to analyze urine. When a buck sees a doe urinate, he will often take some of this urine into his mouth and perform a behavior called flehmen, or lip-curl. This flehmen helps to introduce urine into the VNO. It is interesting that this organ is not connected to the same part of the brain that the nose is connected to. Instead it is connected to the part of the brain that controls the reproductive condition of the deer. What type of information the deer is getting is unknown, but it is likely that odors analyzed in the VNO help get the hormones pumping in the buck and bring him into rutting condition.
I really believe you are right to some degree WKP Todd, concerning the comparison of a dogs sense of smell to a deer's. Although, the difference is that a dog is "taught" thru training to alert to specific smells/odors. Deer are not taught, but rather learn(instinct plays a major role I believe) to distinguish predator from non-predator and food from non-food, Ect... This probably explains why deer will only be shot at once by a two-legged predator, to recognize this as potential danger in the future. Same goes for the bumbling bowhunter that gets busted by the yearling buck. I really don't believe he will entertain that shape in a tree again but rather skirt it the next time.(IF he feels danger/fear from the encounter. As far as the sense of smell goes, unless that deer felt danger in his encounter with the smell, he will likely not associate it with danger in the future. I guess we could take the example of farmers, tractors, combines, dozers, ect., that when a deer does not sense danger associated with these smells/odors, he will likely remain at ease near them.

I for one totally believe at this point, No smell is the best smell.(If that were possible) It is not though, so we must be vigilant in camoflauging our movement, sounds we make, and play the wind EXCLUSIVELY on every hunt that it is possible. This should be a decision similar to whether you want to drive to work today without brakes or with brakes. It is your decision.

LT

By the way, I am still open to other research on this subject.
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