markj

I have a hunch after hunting them for a while.

Few predators in the Midwest other than man. (pretty obvious)
Being involved with insurance for 12 yrs., LOTS killed by autos.
Winter Kill-off is extremely minimal here
Disease? Not oftenother than some cases of CWD

Does will run off the Button Bucks sometimes very early. I would say there mortality rate is very high.

I would not doubt as a 1.5 yr old buck, being pretty doped up on test. if the number is not around that. They are pretty stupid and folks shoot them.

Isee every year1.5 yr olds hanging out together, sparring, clicking horns,all through the season ina relatively small area. They should be safe from natural predators and they seem to get along. But the 2.5 and 3.5 will freakin thrash them when a doe is in heat. Seen that also. Watched one about kill a little buck down in the water in a ditch.

I would say the following year is when they will get with it fighting. 2.5 to 3.5 yr old. And a lot of folks find some locked up dead. Think about how many hunters find shot from the previous season. A bunch.

And as you knowwhen they get 4.5 yr old they are a totally different creatures. I believe they do not fight as much when they get older but know how to lay back and just be patient and wait forgo-time. Let the young guys find the gals and then go take them awayand lock down.

Nothing new here but just fun discussing and from observations.edit: I am not an expert. But I do shoot 2" groupsat 60 yds all the time.

GMMAT

I an tell you that I saw ZERO immature bucks after the rut started.

ZERO.

And I was out there, a LOT. I wondered where they all went......but I guess they had a knack for nOT getting their asses kicked.

For some reason....this didn't apply to the buttons. I saw them all the way through.I saw NO 1.5 yr olds after mid-Nov. NONE.

rybohunter

That has to be the most bizarre thing ever. I could not imagine NOT seeing any 1.5 old bucks at any time let alone the rut, other than maybe right after gun hunting season. Then at this point you'd still see a few small ones that couldn;t be shot.

markj

No kidding.baskets and 4 pts are all over the place with tongue and peter dragging. Honestly dependig on where I was hunting you would see 7-10 different little bucks. But, maybe that is the reason why I did not see a mature onethose same days. They stay away from the dominant ones.

That may be good news for you GMMAT. YOu may not see the numbers but the one you do see............SCHWAK!

Germ

Guys I think it may have to do where the bedding areas are more than anything.

GMMAT if I remember you a far distance from where the deer bed down?

GMMAT

I hunt small parcels on the edge of a man-made break line. I catch them exiting their sanctuary for dinner......and coming home in the mornings. Yeah....I'd say I'm a few hudred yds from their CORE bedding area.....but I bump them all the time (a few here and there) coming and going. I think they're just staging at these spots.....or they got caught coming home late.

One place i hunt is REALLY close to their bedding area......and thinking back.....with our rut starting as late as it did.....I hold to my original statement.

Now I'm not talking about Pre-rut/chasing. I'm talking about when it was in full swing......and post (although post-rut was likely out of season, for me).

markj

Thatmay be but these little suckers are usually very active and will travel a bit. Did you see any mature bucks? If so you must have been close enough to bedding.

janesburg

GMMAT....Here is a link from a study of deer movement. Pretty interesting. Thought this might have a couple of answers.


http://www.news.wisc.edu/releases/11747.html

GMMAT

Thanks, janesburg. I'll read that when I get a little time.

Markj.....I saw only 5 or 6 different bucks from Thanksgiving on. All over 2.5yrs. You have to remember.....the RUT, here, didn't start until later this past season. I saw my first buck chasing......the day after Thanksgiving. My season ended on 12/19. That didn't leave too many days for me to see them....when I stop and think about it (dark when I get home from work.....and we can't hunt Sundays, here).

I don't think it's that much of a stretch....when I stop and think about it. Likely just a coincidence. But I did wonder what happened to all the young bucks I was seeing in the early part of the season.