Experience VS shot selection
12-20-2006, 04:32 PM
#11
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Flushing Michigan
Posts: 2,355
RE: Experience VS shot selection
ORIGINAL: goherd1111
I believe the more experienced bowhunter learns not to take the extra lattitude.
Those kind of decisions during the moment of truth is what qualifies them as more experienced. Just my .02.
I believe the more experienced bowhunter learns not to take the extra lattitude.
Those kind of decisions during the moment of truth is what qualifies them as more experienced. Just my .02.
12-20-2006, 04:34 PM
#12
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Southeast, TX
Posts: 818
RE: Experience VS shot selection
ORIGINAL: Germ
I judge each shot when I am live primetime, I can not guess what I would do.
I haveone thought,Put an arrow in the kill zone. Everything else is on auto pilot these days.
I guess I should answer, each of us has to make the choice to shoot based on our own experience. I do not need any justifiaction from my peers onmy shot choice. I have to live with it.
So my answers is I do not want any latitude from anyone.
I judge each shot when I am live primetime, I can not guess what I would do.
I haveone thought,Put an arrow in the kill zone. Everything else is on auto pilot these days.
I guess I should answer, each of us has to make the choice to shoot based on our own experience. I do not need any justifiaction from my peers onmy shot choice. I have to live with it.
So my answers is I do not want any latitude from anyone.
I shoot it where I want to. Most of the time Itry to put the arrow/bullet through the heart/lung area.(only other is head/neck) However, my point of entry may stir up some people, but it's MY choice and I AM confident when I shoot or I don't shoot.
No, I do not go for the "TX Heart Shot", never have and never will.
TXMM
12-20-2006, 05:49 PM
#13
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Kansas
Posts: 3,288
RE: Experience VS shot selection
Oh Horse hockey, Shot placement is the same for everyone!!! Being an experienced Bowhunter is no excuse for taking a lowpercentage shot! You know where the Arrow needs togo throughthe deer. The only advantage the Experienced Bowhunter has, is being able to cash in on the shot opportunity once it presents itself!! The when and Where of it all.
12-20-2006, 06:17 PM
#14
Site Buck Guru
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Racine, Wisconsin
Posts: 5,922
RE: Experience VS shot selection
My answer to the posted question is no. There are three things that are importantto me for making a clean killing shot on a deer.
1) Knowledge of deer anatomy.
2) proficieny with your bow (4" groups@ 40 yards with broadheads).
3) Ability to execute a killing shot, calmly, in sometimes adverse conditions
and situations.
Number 3 gets better with experience. This is how it works for me.
As for the shot in the video (michaelhunsuckers), I killed a deer with that shot before. I hit dead center behind the shoulder, it came out the belly and stuck in the inside of the back leg (thigh). With my current setup I wouldn't take that shot anymore. Too many things can go wrong.
Reality is, that the shooter knows if he exceeded his personal limitations. No one else had the sight picture he did. It is up to him to take corrective action. Something went wrong
1) Knowledge of deer anatomy.
2) proficieny with your bow (4" groups@ 40 yards with broadheads).
3) Ability to execute a killing shot, calmly, in sometimes adverse conditions
and situations.
Number 3 gets better with experience. This is how it works for me.
As for the shot in the video (michaelhunsuckers), I killed a deer with that shot before. I hit dead center behind the shoulder, it came out the belly and stuck in the inside of the back leg (thigh). With my current setup I wouldn't take that shot anymore. Too many things can go wrong.
Reality is, that the shooter knows if he exceeded his personal limitations. No one else had the sight picture he did. It is up to him to take corrective action. Something went wrong
12-20-2006, 07:40 PM
#15
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: NY
Posts: 4,668
RE: Experience VS shot selection
A shot is either good or bad...........and the result has nothing to do with that. I can't stand when guys say the shot was "good" because the deer died.
Experience is a double edge sword.........on one hand it makes for a more calm, cool approach to the shot because they have been there and done that before..........on the other hand it can also give false confidence after a certain amount of success and result in a lowering of the guard and a feeling that this is "easy"..........which it may be in truth, but you still have to focus on a few things to avoid error.
We have all seen year after year the new hunters wet their pants and wound deer because they panic when the moment of truth hits. We also hear of guys taking bad shots and justifying them with their past success.
A bad shot is a bad shot.
EVERYONE should know what a good shot vs a bad one is........while I don't think experience entitles anyone to any "lattitude" I certainly would place my money on the experienced hunter being able to pull off a more difficult shot in the field then some deer virgin who spent a couple weeks popping paper targets in his yard before heading out.
The bottom line is that no one cares............that sucks but it's reality. Bad shots are flung from selfish people. They want that deer so bad that they are willing to risk the wounding and suffering of the deer that could result (see the botched poaching thread). Pictures, bragging, and a head mount erase all common sense in some people. Just think of how many times you have heard someone say they would NEVER shoot at a deer over 25 yards in the woods..........UNLESS it was a monster
Bad shots are taken by people who know they are bad and just don't care or simply have no clue. Either way they deserve no lattitude.
Experience is a double edge sword.........on one hand it makes for a more calm, cool approach to the shot because they have been there and done that before..........on the other hand it can also give false confidence after a certain amount of success and result in a lowering of the guard and a feeling that this is "easy"..........which it may be in truth, but you still have to focus on a few things to avoid error.
We have all seen year after year the new hunters wet their pants and wound deer because they panic when the moment of truth hits. We also hear of guys taking bad shots and justifying them with their past success.
A bad shot is a bad shot.
EVERYONE should know what a good shot vs a bad one is........while I don't think experience entitles anyone to any "lattitude" I certainly would place my money on the experienced hunter being able to pull off a more difficult shot in the field then some deer virgin who spent a couple weeks popping paper targets in his yard before heading out.
The bottom line is that no one cares............that sucks but it's reality. Bad shots are flung from selfish people. They want that deer so bad that they are willing to risk the wounding and suffering of the deer that could result (see the botched poaching thread). Pictures, bragging, and a head mount erase all common sense in some people. Just think of how many times you have heard someone say they would NEVER shoot at a deer over 25 yards in the woods..........UNLESS it was a monster
Bad shots are taken by people who know they are bad and just don't care or simply have no clue. Either way they deserve no lattitude.
12-20-2006, 07:46 PM
#16
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Michigan/Ohio
Posts: 11,682
RE: Experience VS shot selection
ORIGINAL: atlasman
A shot is either good or bad...........and the result has nothing to do with that. I can't stand when guys say the shot was "good" because the deer died.
Experience is a double edge sword.........on one hand it makes for a more calm, cool approach to the shot because they have been there and done that before..........on the other hand it can also give false confidence after a certain amount of success and result in a lowering of the guard and a feeling that this is "easy"..........which it may be in truth, but you still have to focus on a few things to avoid error.
We have all seen year after year the new hunters wet their pants and wound deer because they panic when the moment of truth hits. We also hear of guys taking bad shots and justifying them with their past success.
A bad shot is a bad shot.
EVERYONE should know what a good shot vs a bad one is........while I don't think experience entitles anyone to any "lattitude" I certainly would place my money on the experienced hunter being able to pull off a more difficult shot in the field then some deer virgin who spent a couple weeks popping paper targets in his yard before heading out.
The bottom line is that no one cares............that sucks but it's reality. Bad shots are flung from selfish people. They want that deer so bad that they are willing to risk the wounding and suffering of the deer that could result (see the botched poaching thread). Pictures, bragging, and a head mount erase all common sense in some people. Just think of how many times you have heard someone say they would NEVER shoot at a deer over 25 yards in the woods..........UNLESS it was a monster
Bad shots are taken by people who know they are bad and just don't care or simply have no clue. Either way they deserve no lattitude.
A shot is either good or bad...........and the result has nothing to do with that. I can't stand when guys say the shot was "good" because the deer died.
Experience is a double edge sword.........on one hand it makes for a more calm, cool approach to the shot because they have been there and done that before..........on the other hand it can also give false confidence after a certain amount of success and result in a lowering of the guard and a feeling that this is "easy"..........which it may be in truth, but you still have to focus on a few things to avoid error.
We have all seen year after year the new hunters wet their pants and wound deer because they panic when the moment of truth hits. We also hear of guys taking bad shots and justifying them with their past success.
A bad shot is a bad shot.
EVERYONE should know what a good shot vs a bad one is........while I don't think experience entitles anyone to any "lattitude" I certainly would place my money on the experienced hunter being able to pull off a more difficult shot in the field then some deer virgin who spent a couple weeks popping paper targets in his yard before heading out.
The bottom line is that no one cares............that sucks but it's reality. Bad shots are flung from selfish people. They want that deer so bad that they are willing to risk the wounding and suffering of the deer that could result (see the botched poaching thread). Pictures, bragging, and a head mount erase all common sense in some people. Just think of how many times you have heard someone say they would NEVER shoot at a deer over 25 yards in the woods..........UNLESS it was a monster
Bad shots are taken by people who know they are bad and just don't care or simply have no clue. Either way they deserve no lattitude.
12-20-2006, 08:12 PM
#18
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Wisconsin/Michigan
Posts: 9,679
RE: Experience VS shot selection
ORIGINAL: Germ
Now that was a nice read
ORIGINAL: atlasman
A shot is either good or bad...........and the result has nothing to do with that. I can't stand when guys say the shot was "good" because the deer died.
Experience is a double edge sword.........on one hand it makes for a more calm, cool approach to the shot because they have been there and done that before..........on the other hand it can also give false confidence after a certain amount of success and result in a lowering of the guard and a feeling that this is "easy"..........which it may be in truth, but you still have to focus on a few things to avoid error.
We have all seen year after year the new hunters wet their pants and wound deer because they panic when the moment of truth hits. We also hear of guys taking bad shots and justifying them with their past success.
A bad shot is a bad shot.
EVERYONE should know what a good shot vs a bad one is........while I don't think experience entitles anyone to any "lattitude" I certainly would place my money on the experienced hunter being able to pull off a more difficult shot in the field then some deer virgin who spent a couple weeks popping paper targets in his yard before heading out.
The bottom line is that no one cares............that sucks but it's reality. Bad shots are flung from selfish people. They want that deer so bad that they are willing to risk the wounding and suffering of the deer that could result (see the botched poaching thread). Pictures, bragging, and a head mount erase all common sense in some people. Just think of how many times you have heard someone say they would NEVER shoot at a deer over 25 yards in the woods..........UNLESS it was a monster
Bad shots are taken by people who know they are bad and just don't care or simply have no clue. Either way they deserve no lattitude.
A shot is either good or bad...........and the result has nothing to do with that. I can't stand when guys say the shot was "good" because the deer died.
Experience is a double edge sword.........on one hand it makes for a more calm, cool approach to the shot because they have been there and done that before..........on the other hand it can also give false confidence after a certain amount of success and result in a lowering of the guard and a feeling that this is "easy"..........which it may be in truth, but you still have to focus on a few things to avoid error.
We have all seen year after year the new hunters wet their pants and wound deer because they panic when the moment of truth hits. We also hear of guys taking bad shots and justifying them with their past success.
A bad shot is a bad shot.
EVERYONE should know what a good shot vs a bad one is........while I don't think experience entitles anyone to any "lattitude" I certainly would place my money on the experienced hunter being able to pull off a more difficult shot in the field then some deer virgin who spent a couple weeks popping paper targets in his yard before heading out.
The bottom line is that no one cares............that sucks but it's reality. Bad shots are flung from selfish people. They want that deer so bad that they are willing to risk the wounding and suffering of the deer that could result (see the botched poaching thread). Pictures, bragging, and a head mount erase all common sense in some people. Just think of how many times you have heard someone say they would NEVER shoot at a deer over 25 yards in the woods..........UNLESS it was a monster
Bad shots are taken by people who know they are bad and just don't care or simply have no clue. Either way they deserve no lattitude.
Good post Atlas!!!!!
12-20-2006, 08:17 PM
#19
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Michigan/Ohio
Posts: 11,682
RE: Experience VS shot selection
Atlas were I have the issue who decsides what is good or bad?
Atlas made a terrific shot this year by his descrption, one I would not even consider to take. Does that make it a bad shot? I think it's not my place to judge anyone's shot as good or bad. I have my defination and Atlas has his.
I agree with Atlas on a lot of points, watchsome of thehunting shows, there are some "strange" shots guys are taking.
We all have live with our choice.
12-20-2006, 08:42 PM
#20
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Baltimore Maryland USA
Posts: 1,385
RE: Experience VS shot selection
One of the questions that popped up in my thread "Weird deer" was the ethics police. It seems that no matter what you do, there will always be someone who will criticize your choices. And it doesn't matter how much experience you have.
I did like the posts by John Deer and atlasman. They covered a spectrum of items to consider. One thing that hasn't really been covered yet is equipment. How well is the equipment tuned? How does the equipment fit the shooter? Is the equipment a properly matched set for the application? How does the shooter really practice with the equipment?
Let's cover a few of these questions. I'm a big believer in the bow/arrows being tuned to the point where the FTs and BHs hit in the same spot. It is MY belief that this produces the most efficient weapon. Many bandaid the problem by the use of mechanical BHs. BTW, I use both fixed and mechanical BHs and right now there are both in my quiver. The reason I use both is because I'm constantly testing all types of BHs.
On a daily basis I see hunters who are set up with too long a DL. I have a way to show those willing to listen how that affects their performance/confidence. Many believe that target shooting and hunting require the same set of standards. That is not true. Hunting set-ups have more limitations due to the conditions to which hunters are subjected. There are other 'fit' requirements but they are not quite as pronounced as the DL problem. BTW, the DL problem can be amplified by the choice of manufacturer that is chosen.
Matching the equipment to the game can be another problem. Shot placement becomes more critical if lesser equipment is used. For instance, like it or not, KE can help or hurt. Low KE after bigger game is not as good as higher KE. I had one customer (I didn't fit him)who used a 2" cut mechanical BH with 47# DWon a bull elk. Needless to say, he came home very disappointed when a wounded animal walked away. This type of poor choice of equipment is what has made most big game guides disallow the use of mechanical BHs.
A hunter should practice the way he hunts. Full hunting gear/clothing, treestand shooting if he/she uses one, bending and twisting during the shot, and something I do to add confidence - rapid shooting. Too many stand on level ground two weeks before the season starts, in short sleeve shirts, and shoot at paper.
I would like to think that the 'experienced' hunter would take the extra effort to prepare for what he/she will find in the field. I would also like to think that any hunter not really think that experience gives him/her any more latitude; but, that experience at the moment of truth will dictate whether or not to take the shot.
Shot selection is the best shot you've got under the circumstances. The question I ask myself in a split second, based on my experience, is whether or not the percentages are high enough for me to pull the trigger. The ethics of the shot is something that only you can determine and something that you mayhave to live with the rest of your life.
I know this deviated a little, but the equipment subject is something that is dear to my heart. Too often I see poor equipment used no matter what isthe experience of the shooteror shot placement capabilities.[:@]
I did like the posts by John Deer and atlasman. They covered a spectrum of items to consider. One thing that hasn't really been covered yet is equipment. How well is the equipment tuned? How does the equipment fit the shooter? Is the equipment a properly matched set for the application? How does the shooter really practice with the equipment?
Let's cover a few of these questions. I'm a big believer in the bow/arrows being tuned to the point where the FTs and BHs hit in the same spot. It is MY belief that this produces the most efficient weapon. Many bandaid the problem by the use of mechanical BHs. BTW, I use both fixed and mechanical BHs and right now there are both in my quiver. The reason I use both is because I'm constantly testing all types of BHs.
On a daily basis I see hunters who are set up with too long a DL. I have a way to show those willing to listen how that affects their performance/confidence. Many believe that target shooting and hunting require the same set of standards. That is not true. Hunting set-ups have more limitations due to the conditions to which hunters are subjected. There are other 'fit' requirements but they are not quite as pronounced as the DL problem. BTW, the DL problem can be amplified by the choice of manufacturer that is chosen.
Matching the equipment to the game can be another problem. Shot placement becomes more critical if lesser equipment is used. For instance, like it or not, KE can help or hurt. Low KE after bigger game is not as good as higher KE. I had one customer (I didn't fit him)who used a 2" cut mechanical BH with 47# DWon a bull elk. Needless to say, he came home very disappointed when a wounded animal walked away. This type of poor choice of equipment is what has made most big game guides disallow the use of mechanical BHs.
A hunter should practice the way he hunts. Full hunting gear/clothing, treestand shooting if he/she uses one, bending and twisting during the shot, and something I do to add confidence - rapid shooting. Too many stand on level ground two weeks before the season starts, in short sleeve shirts, and shoot at paper.
I would like to think that the 'experienced' hunter would take the extra effort to prepare for what he/she will find in the field. I would also like to think that any hunter not really think that experience gives him/her any more latitude; but, that experience at the moment of truth will dictate whether or not to take the shot.
Shot selection is the best shot you've got under the circumstances. The question I ask myself in a split second, based on my experience, is whether or not the percentages are high enough for me to pull the trigger. The ethics of the shot is something that only you can determine and something that you mayhave to live with the rest of your life.
I know this deviated a little, but the equipment subject is something that is dear to my heart. Too often I see poor equipment used no matter what isthe experience of the shooteror shot placement capabilities.[:@]