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11-27-2002, 08:04 AM
#41
Typical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: QDM Heaven
Posts: 847
RE: Trophy Hunting?
RICHIE3...great post!<img src=icon_smile_approve.gif border=0 align=middle>
Tx...good to see we see eye to eye on this one and good luck to you!
Edited by - wolfen68 on 11/27/2002 09:14:55
Tx...good to see we see eye to eye on this one and good luck to you!
Edited by - wolfen68 on 11/27/2002 09:14:55
11-27-2002, 08:15 AM
#42
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Montgomery IL USA
Posts: 1,231
RE: Trophy Hunting?
Wolfen, You brought up a good point, that I'd like to address. I suppose I can only speak from my personal point of view and experience.
Yes, I am a "meat hunter". I never was, am not now, and have no intentions to be, a trophy hunter. That not withstanding, I'd be lieing if I didn't say that, since I first started bowhunting, I always had in the back of my mind the hopes that I'd shoot a big buck.
This year, I shot a buck that I'm very happy with. I'll admit it, I was tickled to death to have taken that deer. I'm very proud of it, and it's going on the wall. After the 60 day drying period, he'll be scored and entered in P&Y.
Even so, it hasn't changed the way I hunt, or what I hunt for. I still hunt first for the enjoyment, and second for meat in the freezer. Antlers are nice, and yes, I like them...but they're just not at the top of my priority list.
I understand what you're saying, that it seems as though everyone wants to shoot a big buck, but few will commit to it. I guess I'm one of those people. It's just the fact that I place a higher priority on other aspects of the hunt than antlers. That's not to say that my way is the best way...far from it. It's just to say that we're different.
For example... I know a guy from IL who is, from what I've been able to gather, a very dedicated trophy hunter. He's said that one of his goals in bowhunting is to take a Boone & Crocket buck (170 typical minimum). However, he'll gladly take the first 130-class down the trail (which is a heck of a deer IMO). I suppose the same argument could be made that, while he wants to take a B&C, he's not willing to make the sacrifices to do it (i.e. passing up below B&C bucks).
I know, it may sound silly to make an argument like that...passing up P&Y deer because they're not 170-class...but the same argument gets made often about guys who dream of killing a P&Y deer, but shoot the first basket-rack down the trail. It's no different really, just the measurements have changed.
JRW
Edited by - jrw on 11/27/2002 09:37:04
Yes, I am a "meat hunter". I never was, am not now, and have no intentions to be, a trophy hunter. That not withstanding, I'd be lieing if I didn't say that, since I first started bowhunting, I always had in the back of my mind the hopes that I'd shoot a big buck.
This year, I shot a buck that I'm very happy with. I'll admit it, I was tickled to death to have taken that deer. I'm very proud of it, and it's going on the wall. After the 60 day drying period, he'll be scored and entered in P&Y.
Even so, it hasn't changed the way I hunt, or what I hunt for. I still hunt first for the enjoyment, and second for meat in the freezer. Antlers are nice, and yes, I like them...but they're just not at the top of my priority list.
I understand what you're saying, that it seems as though everyone wants to shoot a big buck, but few will commit to it. I guess I'm one of those people. It's just the fact that I place a higher priority on other aspects of the hunt than antlers. That's not to say that my way is the best way...far from it. It's just to say that we're different.
For example... I know a guy from IL who is, from what I've been able to gather, a very dedicated trophy hunter. He's said that one of his goals in bowhunting is to take a Boone & Crocket buck (170 typical minimum). However, he'll gladly take the first 130-class down the trail (which is a heck of a deer IMO). I suppose the same argument could be made that, while he wants to take a B&C, he's not willing to make the sacrifices to do it (i.e. passing up below B&C bucks).
I know, it may sound silly to make an argument like that...passing up P&Y deer because they're not 170-class...but the same argument gets made often about guys who dream of killing a P&Y deer, but shoot the first basket-rack down the trail. It's no different really, just the measurements have changed.
JRW
Edited by - jrw on 11/27/2002 09:37:04
11-27-2002, 08:49 AM
#43
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 3,903
RE: Trophy Hunting?
<font color=red>I have stated i have no problems with "meat hunters", what ever floats your canoe...however it seems many "meat hunters" have a real problem with "trophy hunters". </font id=red>
I dont have any problems with trophy hunters. I dont think most "plain ole vanilla brown its down" hunters have a problem with trophy hunters either. I think I can speak for the majority when I say ; we do have a problem when we're constantly questioned on our choices or belittled by mightier than thou trophy hunters who feel that their way is the only way! I know quite a few trophy hunters who feel happy for other hunters who shoot young bucks regardless of their reason for shooting. They dont expect everyone else to make it easier for them.
<font color=red>
there aren't monster bucks walking by your treestand every 5 minutes 20 yards broadside begging you to shoot them...what a horrible and ignorant misconception. Old bucks=smart bucks...young bucks=dumb bucks. Have a nice evening.</font id=red>
You took my statement a little too serious! But if "everyone , everywhere" were forced into TBM , you dont think the odds of seeing P&Y bucks would increase dramatically? Especially in five years or so?
<font color=red>Each year you wish or want for that buck that is larger than the last.
If you don't or don't care, give me a real, legitimate argument for not letting that small buck pass and taking only does.
Yes, it is true, we are all hunters. Part time hunters at best. So, if you do not care about the antlers, why not help out and look out for the neighbor who may want to take only bigger bucks? Why not improve relations with everyone around you?? We are all in this thing together, aren't we??</font id=red>
I'll try and answer some of your questions , but remember in reality no other hunter has to answer to anyone why he chose to harvest any legal animal.
First , how about areas where neighbors dont give a rats behind about what deer get harvested. My area for example.(farm country) The farmers in my area shoot anything and everything to try and reduce crop damage. I've seen three farmers harvest trophy bucks in the last two years and all of them cut off the rack and hung them in the barn(they could care less about Pope & Who?).
How about remote areas where if you see a deer , your lucky? (Northern Wi) There are alot of hunters who spend alot of time in our northern forests who have gone meatless for years. Do you think their wrong for shooting the first legal buck that comes by?
We also have areas that have had some pretty drastic doe harvest plans the last ten years which have made doe hunting almost as hard as hunting mature bucks. There are alot of areas with alot of hunters who disagree with our DNR about the buck to doe population and yet they still have two extra doe seasons every year. I'm sure there are alot of other reasons hunters could give for harvesting any buck. We're all in this for different reasons , everyone needs to remember that.
I dont have any problems with trophy hunters. I dont think most "plain ole vanilla brown its down" hunters have a problem with trophy hunters either. I think I can speak for the majority when I say ; we do have a problem when we're constantly questioned on our choices or belittled by mightier than thou trophy hunters who feel that their way is the only way! I know quite a few trophy hunters who feel happy for other hunters who shoot young bucks regardless of their reason for shooting. They dont expect everyone else to make it easier for them.
<font color=red>
there aren't monster bucks walking by your treestand every 5 minutes 20 yards broadside begging you to shoot them...what a horrible and ignorant misconception. Old bucks=smart bucks...young bucks=dumb bucks. Have a nice evening.</font id=red>
You took my statement a little too serious! But if "everyone , everywhere" were forced into TBM , you dont think the odds of seeing P&Y bucks would increase dramatically? Especially in five years or so?
<font color=red>Each year you wish or want for that buck that is larger than the last.
If you don't or don't care, give me a real, legitimate argument for not letting that small buck pass and taking only does.
Yes, it is true, we are all hunters. Part time hunters at best. So, if you do not care about the antlers, why not help out and look out for the neighbor who may want to take only bigger bucks? Why not improve relations with everyone around you?? We are all in this thing together, aren't we??</font id=red>
I'll try and answer some of your questions , but remember in reality no other hunter has to answer to anyone why he chose to harvest any legal animal.
First , how about areas where neighbors dont give a rats behind about what deer get harvested. My area for example.(farm country) The farmers in my area shoot anything and everything to try and reduce crop damage. I've seen three farmers harvest trophy bucks in the last two years and all of them cut off the rack and hung them in the barn(they could care less about Pope & Who?).
How about remote areas where if you see a deer , your lucky? (Northern Wi) There are alot of hunters who spend alot of time in our northern forests who have gone meatless for years. Do you think their wrong for shooting the first legal buck that comes by?
We also have areas that have had some pretty drastic doe harvest plans the last ten years which have made doe hunting almost as hard as hunting mature bucks. There are alot of areas with alot of hunters who disagree with our DNR about the buck to doe population and yet they still have two extra doe seasons every year. I'm sure there are alot of other reasons hunters could give for harvesting any buck. We're all in this for different reasons , everyone needs to remember that.
11-27-2002, 11:40 AM
#44
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: saint joseph missouri USA
Posts: 548
RE: Trophy Hunting?
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote> First , how about areas where neighbors dont give a rats behind about what deer get harvested. My area for example.(farm country) The farmers in my area shoot anything and everything to try and reduce crop damage. I've seen three farmers harvest trophy bucks in the last two years and all of them cut off the rack and hung them in the barn(they could care less about Pope & Who?). <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>
So, in response you are saying that being the neighbors don't give a darn, then, neither should you? I thought it was said earlier that it was an idividuals choice. Sounds to me that you are rolling with the crowd. But then, you did take a book class buck, now didn't you? Now don't you hope you get a smaller one next year?? I doubt it again.
As for the so called "crop damage" that the farmers always talk about.
I lived on a farm for most of my life, and know 90% of the farmers in the county. True, I have heard them talk of an outside row or two that has been eaten by all sorts of wildlife(racoons, possums, skunks, squirrels, birds, ect.). But not one of them has ever, in a serious voice, told me that the deer are so numberous that they couldn't possibly make any money on their crops, due to the crop damage. Many say it in jest, so they are able to take some table fair when needed, and call it in the name of "crop damage". Then, you say that you know of three trophy bucks that were taken by farmers. But yet, they do not care about the racks. How many does do they shoot each year in the name of "crop damage"? I would be willing to bet that those racks stay on display in the barn for many years to come.
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>How about remote areas where if you see a deer , your lucky? (Northern Wi) There are alot of hunters who spend alot of time in our northern forests who have gone meatless for years. Do you think their wrong for shooting the first legal buck that comes by?<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>
Well, explain to me how that area got that way in the first place. This is the first sign that state departments take when using antler restrictions. The numbers depleted for a reason, and we know what that reason is.
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>We also have areas that have had some pretty drastic doe harvest plans the last ten years which have made doe hunting almost as hard as hunting mature bucks. There are alot of areas with alot of hunters who disagree with our DNR about the buck to doe population and yet they still have two extra doe seasons every year. I'm sure there are alot of other reasons hunters could give for harvesting any buck. We're all in this for different reasons , everyone needs to remember that.
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>
Just out of curiousity, could you give me the total numbers of does taken during the doe harvests? I would like to compare them to something I have here.
Is it very possible that not many hunters take part in the hunt because they are not able to take a buck? Even here in Missouri, the deer management process used to be quanity, not quality. But they are learning the errors of their past ways. Yes, a good herd number must be provided, before any quality techniques can be applied. But now, you are no longer able to buy a "buck only" tag. It is now an "any deer" tag, with several "bonus" tags that can be bought, and are encouraged to buy, in addition. The "antlerless season" has been moved up into Decmber from January, so as to avoid the unnecessary harvest of button bucks or bucks that have already dropped their antlers and possibly be confused as does. I believe the next step in the Missouri Dept. of Conservation's plan is to eliminate the wording "antlerless" that is used now, and change it to strictly "buck" or "doe" and quite possibly go to a muzzleloader/slug-gun seasons in the near years to come. In which I would strongly support.
A 130, 140, and up, class of animals are still alot better than taking spikes, forkhorns, and tiny basket racks. Remeber on thing, if you see large quanity of basket racks being taken, or in your area, the potential is there in just 3 short years. Many deer that end up with basket rack 6-10 points in their first two and a half years of life, are really nice deer in the making. But you have to let them get there first. If you are an experienced hunter and want meat, take the does. The excuse of "not many bucks being around, so I will take the first buck I see" is not a good way.
Yes, they (smaller bucks)are all legal harvests in your area . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .for now.
So, in response you are saying that being the neighbors don't give a darn, then, neither should you? I thought it was said earlier that it was an idividuals choice. Sounds to me that you are rolling with the crowd. But then, you did take a book class buck, now didn't you? Now don't you hope you get a smaller one next year?? I doubt it again.
As for the so called "crop damage" that the farmers always talk about.
I lived on a farm for most of my life, and know 90% of the farmers in the county. True, I have heard them talk of an outside row or two that has been eaten by all sorts of wildlife(racoons, possums, skunks, squirrels, birds, ect.). But not one of them has ever, in a serious voice, told me that the deer are so numberous that they couldn't possibly make any money on their crops, due to the crop damage. Many say it in jest, so they are able to take some table fair when needed, and call it in the name of "crop damage". Then, you say that you know of three trophy bucks that were taken by farmers. But yet, they do not care about the racks. How many does do they shoot each year in the name of "crop damage"? I would be willing to bet that those racks stay on display in the barn for many years to come.
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>How about remote areas where if you see a deer , your lucky? (Northern Wi) There are alot of hunters who spend alot of time in our northern forests who have gone meatless for years. Do you think their wrong for shooting the first legal buck that comes by?<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>
Well, explain to me how that area got that way in the first place. This is the first sign that state departments take when using antler restrictions. The numbers depleted for a reason, and we know what that reason is.
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>We also have areas that have had some pretty drastic doe harvest plans the last ten years which have made doe hunting almost as hard as hunting mature bucks. There are alot of areas with alot of hunters who disagree with our DNR about the buck to doe population and yet they still have two extra doe seasons every year. I'm sure there are alot of other reasons hunters could give for harvesting any buck. We're all in this for different reasons , everyone needs to remember that.
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>
Just out of curiousity, could you give me the total numbers of does taken during the doe harvests? I would like to compare them to something I have here.
Is it very possible that not many hunters take part in the hunt because they are not able to take a buck? Even here in Missouri, the deer management process used to be quanity, not quality. But they are learning the errors of their past ways. Yes, a good herd number must be provided, before any quality techniques can be applied. But now, you are no longer able to buy a "buck only" tag. It is now an "any deer" tag, with several "bonus" tags that can be bought, and are encouraged to buy, in addition. The "antlerless season" has been moved up into Decmber from January, so as to avoid the unnecessary harvest of button bucks or bucks that have already dropped their antlers and possibly be confused as does. I believe the next step in the Missouri Dept. of Conservation's plan is to eliminate the wording "antlerless" that is used now, and change it to strictly "buck" or "doe" and quite possibly go to a muzzleloader/slug-gun seasons in the near years to come. In which I would strongly support.
A 130, 140, and up, class of animals are still alot better than taking spikes, forkhorns, and tiny basket racks. Remeber on thing, if you see large quanity of basket racks being taken, or in your area, the potential is there in just 3 short years. Many deer that end up with basket rack 6-10 points in their first two and a half years of life, are really nice deer in the making. But you have to let them get there first. If you are an experienced hunter and want meat, take the does. The excuse of "not many bucks being around, so I will take the first buck I see" is not a good way.
Yes, they (smaller bucks)are all legal harvests in your area . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .for now.
11-27-2002, 12:15 PM
#45
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Fredericksburg Virginia USA
Posts: 13,672
RE: Trophy Hunting?
BOWFANATIC some of them are really up in arms with your viewpoint and reasoning! I have often wondered how many of these trophy hunters would have the same attitudes if they lived and or hunted in areas that had a huge abundance of deer and due just to shear numbers the entire herd suffered, or there were an excellent mix of young and fully mature bucks and you could take three bucks a year and almost all the doe you wanted to boot. I have a strong feeling that many of them hunt in areas where there is a one buck limit and very few bucks to go around.
I will be honest and say that if we were only allowed 1 buck a season I might share some of thier sentiments, because they have this need to have massive racks to allow them to brag about their kill.
Richie
"Well, explain to me how that area got that way in the first place. This is the first sign that state departments take when using antler restrictions. The numbers depleted for a reason, and we know what that reason is."
Perhaps you would like to explain that one to me, in Va. you can kill 3 buck a year and over 100 doe and we still have a growing herd of deer! If you think it is due to over harvesting of young bucks you may want to do some factual research of the area BOWFANATIC is speaking of. The further north you go the fewer deer there are due mainly to the far harsher winters which kill off huge numbers of deer when they are not kept thinned out.
I am not going to lie, I love venison and I love to hunt, if I lived there and I had a choice between no venison or waiting 3-4 years and hoping no one else killed my venison to hang a rack on my wall, or taking a basket 8, I would take the basket 8.
I have no problem with trophy hunters at all, if they want to drop the money and get enough property to control their trophy herd, I say go for it. I have killed my trophy in 74 and even though I have over the years seen some in Va. that would beat it, it sure wouldn't be by a whole lot.
The Tazman aka Martin Price
Founder and President of
Virginia Disabled Outdoorsmen Club
I will be honest and say that if we were only allowed 1 buck a season I might share some of thier sentiments, because they have this need to have massive racks to allow them to brag about their kill.
Richie
"Well, explain to me how that area got that way in the first place. This is the first sign that state departments take when using antler restrictions. The numbers depleted for a reason, and we know what that reason is."
Perhaps you would like to explain that one to me, in Va. you can kill 3 buck a year and over 100 doe and we still have a growing herd of deer! If you think it is due to over harvesting of young bucks you may want to do some factual research of the area BOWFANATIC is speaking of. The further north you go the fewer deer there are due mainly to the far harsher winters which kill off huge numbers of deer when they are not kept thinned out.
I am not going to lie, I love venison and I love to hunt, if I lived there and I had a choice between no venison or waiting 3-4 years and hoping no one else killed my venison to hang a rack on my wall, or taking a basket 8, I would take the basket 8.
I have no problem with trophy hunters at all, if they want to drop the money and get enough property to control their trophy herd, I say go for it. I have killed my trophy in 74 and even though I have over the years seen some in Va. that would beat it, it sure wouldn't be by a whole lot.
The Tazman aka Martin Price
Founder and President of
Virginia Disabled Outdoorsmen Club
11-27-2002, 04:29 PM
#47
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: saint joseph missouri USA
Posts: 548
RE: Trophy Hunting?
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
BOWFANATIC some of them are really up in arms with your viewpoint and reasoning! I have often wondered how many of these trophy hunters would have the same attitudes if they lived and or hunted in areas that had a huge abundance of deer and due just to shear numbers the entire herd suffered, or there were an excellent mix of young and fully mature bucks and you could take three bucks a year and almost all the doe you wanted to boot. I have a strong feeling that many of them hunt in areas where there is a one buck limit and very few bucks to go around.<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>
Taz, you are wrong about me. I am not up in arms over anything. A debatable thread was posted, and I am debating to the best of my ability.
We also have the numbers of deer here in Missouri. I don't think this is an excuse for experienced hunters not to be selective. By the way, here in Missouri, you can take 3 bucks also(2 by archery--1 by firearm) and several does. There are very few, nice, big bucks to go around and for one reason. Too many smaller bucks harvested. I still haveen't seen a reason not to shoot does.
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>I will be honest and say that if we were only allowed 1 buck a season I might share some of thier sentiments, because they have this need to have massive racks to allow them to brag about their kill.<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>
By the way, I do not have a "need to brag" about anything I harvest in the hunting season, or for that matter, during the fishing season either. In fact, I would rather not have alot of people know about the animals I harvest. Why would I want anyone taking advantage of hard work and effort I have put in?? This happens all of the time, even you cannot deny that. So, the "bragging" theory does not hold water. Ask anyone who takes big bucks all of the time where exactly they go, I bet lips get glued together on the answers.
I prefer to try to take larger bucks for one reason. The satisfaction of knowing that I have for a brief moment, outwitted, outsmarted, or just got plain lucky over a massive buck. You can't tell me that you do not get a sense of joy or satisfaction when your close friends view your buck, and give compliments to you for it. It is not that you are bragging, just proud.
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>Perhaps you would like to explain that one to me, in Va. you can kill 3 buck a year and over 100 doe and we still have a growing herd of deer! If you think it is due to over harvesting of young bucks you may want to do some factual research of the area BOWFANATIC is speaking of. The further north you go the fewer deer there are due mainly to the far harsher winters which kill off huge numbers of deer when they are not kept thinned out.<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>
Well, number one, I am not talking about Virginia. But, if you can take that many does without hurting the balance of the herd, then you have just answered your own question. It sounds to me that there is a serious lack of bucks in that state, or a serious lack of hunters per habitat with marginal bucks in the region. The "cold weather" theory has some points to it, but then again, how does Canada have so many large whitetails?? Do they not have any winter kill there?? I don't need you to tell me to do some research, I have not just fallen off of the truck.
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>I am not going to lie, I love venison and I love to hunt, if I lived there and I had a choice between no venison or waiting 3-4 years and hoping no one else killed my venison to hang a rack on my wall, or taking a basket 8, I would take the basket 8.<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>
That is your freedom of choice, I am just speaking of the consequenses of overharvesting of small bucks. Keep it going like some states are, and point restrictions are not far behind.
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>I have no problem with trophy hunters at all, if they want to drop the money and get enough property to control their trophy herd, I say go for it. <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>
I do not spend money (except for gas) on Q.D.M., T.B.M., ect.
I just get off of my duff and do whatever is possible to help out the farmer or farmers in whatever they need done thru out the year.I help even though most say they do not need help. Just show up and get ready to do anything necessary. Sincere thanks is given back by helping me out in what I need done. It may not be much to them, but it is huge gains for me and my father and appreciated all the same.
I need to correct myself on a point my wife just pointed out.
I guess I do spend quite abit of money each year to help manage my little piece of heaven. It is spent on processing fees for the does that I harvest. And at $75.00 a pop and going up each year, it gets quite exspensive.
By the way, I haven't had any deer venison for the last 8 years. All venison has gone to help out the farmers and their families that I hunt on. And there is nothing more gratifying than that!!!
BOWFANATIC some of them are really up in arms with your viewpoint and reasoning! I have often wondered how many of these trophy hunters would have the same attitudes if they lived and or hunted in areas that had a huge abundance of deer and due just to shear numbers the entire herd suffered, or there were an excellent mix of young and fully mature bucks and you could take three bucks a year and almost all the doe you wanted to boot. I have a strong feeling that many of them hunt in areas where there is a one buck limit and very few bucks to go around.<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>
Taz, you are wrong about me. I am not up in arms over anything. A debatable thread was posted, and I am debating to the best of my ability.
We also have the numbers of deer here in Missouri. I don't think this is an excuse for experienced hunters not to be selective. By the way, here in Missouri, you can take 3 bucks also(2 by archery--1 by firearm) and several does. There are very few, nice, big bucks to go around and for one reason. Too many smaller bucks harvested. I still haveen't seen a reason not to shoot does.
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>I will be honest and say that if we were only allowed 1 buck a season I might share some of thier sentiments, because they have this need to have massive racks to allow them to brag about their kill.<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>
By the way, I do not have a "need to brag" about anything I harvest in the hunting season, or for that matter, during the fishing season either. In fact, I would rather not have alot of people know about the animals I harvest. Why would I want anyone taking advantage of hard work and effort I have put in?? This happens all of the time, even you cannot deny that. So, the "bragging" theory does not hold water. Ask anyone who takes big bucks all of the time where exactly they go, I bet lips get glued together on the answers.
I prefer to try to take larger bucks for one reason. The satisfaction of knowing that I have for a brief moment, outwitted, outsmarted, or just got plain lucky over a massive buck. You can't tell me that you do not get a sense of joy or satisfaction when your close friends view your buck, and give compliments to you for it. It is not that you are bragging, just proud.
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>Perhaps you would like to explain that one to me, in Va. you can kill 3 buck a year and over 100 doe and we still have a growing herd of deer! If you think it is due to over harvesting of young bucks you may want to do some factual research of the area BOWFANATIC is speaking of. The further north you go the fewer deer there are due mainly to the far harsher winters which kill off huge numbers of deer when they are not kept thinned out.<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>
Well, number one, I am not talking about Virginia. But, if you can take that many does without hurting the balance of the herd, then you have just answered your own question. It sounds to me that there is a serious lack of bucks in that state, or a serious lack of hunters per habitat with marginal bucks in the region. The "cold weather" theory has some points to it, but then again, how does Canada have so many large whitetails?? Do they not have any winter kill there?? I don't need you to tell me to do some research, I have not just fallen off of the truck.
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>I am not going to lie, I love venison and I love to hunt, if I lived there and I had a choice between no venison or waiting 3-4 years and hoping no one else killed my venison to hang a rack on my wall, or taking a basket 8, I would take the basket 8.<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>
That is your freedom of choice, I am just speaking of the consequenses of overharvesting of small bucks. Keep it going like some states are, and point restrictions are not far behind.
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>I have no problem with trophy hunters at all, if they want to drop the money and get enough property to control their trophy herd, I say go for it. <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>
I do not spend money (except for gas) on Q.D.M., T.B.M., ect.
I just get off of my duff and do whatever is possible to help out the farmer or farmers in whatever they need done thru out the year.I help even though most say they do not need help. Just show up and get ready to do anything necessary. Sincere thanks is given back by helping me out in what I need done. It may not be much to them, but it is huge gains for me and my father and appreciated all the same.
I need to correct myself on a point my wife just pointed out.
I guess I do spend quite abit of money each year to help manage my little piece of heaven. It is spent on processing fees for the does that I harvest. And at $75.00 a pop and going up each year, it gets quite exspensive.
By the way, I haven't had any deer venison for the last 8 years. All venison has gone to help out the farmers and their families that I hunt on. And there is nothing more gratifying than that!!!
11-27-2002, 07:25 PM
#48
Fork Horn
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: patten.maine usa
Posts: 147
RE: Trophy Hunting?
Here in northern Maine you have to shoot a buck and there are some bruisers here.It would be nice to be able to fill my freezer with a couple of does.Our game management plan is to keep as many does alive as they can in the areas where the population is low.We do have a doe permit lottery but in my area 350 permits are given out.It is hard to let to much walk past if you want meat for the freezer.It is a good season in my book to be able to say that I saw a muture buck let alone get a shot at one.Bragging is nice but meat is better in my book.
11-28-2002, 11:35 AM
#49
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Saskatchewan Canada
Posts: 6,921
RE: Trophy Hunting?
I guess it is tamoteo vs tomoto, each have our own way and somtimes we feel as though the other is belittling our way. Leave it at that on meat vs. trophy.
Bow, I agree a lot has to do with ones given area and limits. I live in Sask. we can harvest 1 whitetail deer wither sex/year regardless of weapon. (yes, 1 deer total - doe or buck) Now we do have some areas that offer an additional wt doe or yearling, but the vast majority of the province is 1 deer. We have a draw and bow over the counter for Mule Deer tags as well. I also live in an area rich with great deer genetics..yep often refered to as one of the MECA's for Whitetail Bucks in NA. So for me harvesting a trohpy is a reality...I know this and am very fortunate as well. But in no way is it a gaurantee. They are big for a reason and it is challange to put a monarch on the dirt much like anywhere else. That being said we have meat hunters, shooters and trophy guys hunting this province...all with their own goals and objectives for what make deer hunting to them. However the meat hunters don't shoot buck, most opt for BIG DOE's, the shooters are the group that look for 120 as min. but as season dwindles and the end approaches they shoot any deer. Trophy guys are just that...some have standards 130, others 140-150, yet others 165 or better. So a real variety...I am in the middle 150 range...but it has to be mature. I have passed many deer that would go 150 but are young, only to shoot a doe or a 140 down runner(over the hill). By practicing this management in my little neck of the woods...the quality has sky rocketed...so much so my standards have changed (when I hunt there) and it is rare not to see shooter bucks in any given day. I now hold out for the one, which is either 16o plus high typical frame or junk (uniqueness). I really get a thrill out just seeing deer and the killing is the last thing I enjoy or care about. Again though that is me, not anybody else. As far as bragging, I don't do this to brag. It is a choice, challenge, experience, education, tradition, satisfaction, meat etc. I don't carry a camera with me anymore, you won't see me post a picture of my harvests here or anywhere. I do it for me, I love and will share my story (ies) with any one who cares to listen. I know you guys like stories and I enjoy them as well...this is why i come here..to live hunting with other hunters. The end result is personal satisfaction, not fame and fortune. Some guys like the attention, I am not one of them. I simply love to hunt and just happen to love hunting trophy deer. I started on this path 15 years ago and since then i have crossed many a road and had mant gut checks along the way. However it is what keeps me going, awake at night and that boyish smile when I feel the fall wind blow. getting out and being with the creatures of this planet, being able to ste my own path and just maybe conecting with my friend I dreamed about for the past 10 months or 10 years. Either way it is me, not you and I bet if you sat down and looked we ain't to different in our reason.
Sorry to blow and I am done with this topic...but I truly think it is great that we have different reasons, as long as we are happy...then we should all be happy for that person. AFTER ALL WE ARE ALL HUNTER's and that the final word.
Bow, I agree a lot has to do with ones given area and limits. I live in Sask. we can harvest 1 whitetail deer wither sex/year regardless of weapon. (yes, 1 deer total - doe or buck) Now we do have some areas that offer an additional wt doe or yearling, but the vast majority of the province is 1 deer. We have a draw and bow over the counter for Mule Deer tags as well. I also live in an area rich with great deer genetics..yep often refered to as one of the MECA's for Whitetail Bucks in NA. So for me harvesting a trohpy is a reality...I know this and am very fortunate as well. But in no way is it a gaurantee. They are big for a reason and it is challange to put a monarch on the dirt much like anywhere else. That being said we have meat hunters, shooters and trophy guys hunting this province...all with their own goals and objectives for what make deer hunting to them. However the meat hunters don't shoot buck, most opt for BIG DOE's, the shooters are the group that look for 120 as min. but as season dwindles and the end approaches they shoot any deer. Trophy guys are just that...some have standards 130, others 140-150, yet others 165 or better. So a real variety...I am in the middle 150 range...but it has to be mature. I have passed many deer that would go 150 but are young, only to shoot a doe or a 140 down runner(over the hill). By practicing this management in my little neck of the woods...the quality has sky rocketed...so much so my standards have changed (when I hunt there) and it is rare not to see shooter bucks in any given day. I now hold out for the one, which is either 16o plus high typical frame or junk (uniqueness). I really get a thrill out just seeing deer and the killing is the last thing I enjoy or care about. Again though that is me, not anybody else. As far as bragging, I don't do this to brag. It is a choice, challenge, experience, education, tradition, satisfaction, meat etc. I don't carry a camera with me anymore, you won't see me post a picture of my harvests here or anywhere. I do it for me, I love and will share my story (ies) with any one who cares to listen. I know you guys like stories and I enjoy them as well...this is why i come here..to live hunting with other hunters. The end result is personal satisfaction, not fame and fortune. Some guys like the attention, I am not one of them. I simply love to hunt and just happen to love hunting trophy deer. I started on this path 15 years ago and since then i have crossed many a road and had mant gut checks along the way. However it is what keeps me going, awake at night and that boyish smile when I feel the fall wind blow. getting out and being with the creatures of this planet, being able to ste my own path and just maybe conecting with my friend I dreamed about for the past 10 months or 10 years. Either way it is me, not you and I bet if you sat down and looked we ain't to different in our reason.
Sorry to blow and I am done with this topic...but I truly think it is great that we have different reasons, as long as we are happy...then we should all be happy for that person. AFTER ALL WE ARE ALL HUNTER's and that the final word.
11-28-2002, 04:25 PM
#50
Spike
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Wind Lake WI wind lake, WI, US
Posts: 40
RE: Trophy Hunting?
Personally I'm a trophy hunter, I take mature doe and I take mature bucks. I have no problem with anyone harvesting younger deer for food for the freezer or just for the excitement. Deer seem to currently be populating faster than we are harvesting them so feel free to take a couple. I work extermely hard to take mature deer and if everyone lets the little ones go I think it would become a little to easy and almost the norm for everyone to take a mature deer. For me that would kind of take away from the feeling you get when you do connect on a big deer. I will tell you this for sure, I've taken small bucks and I've taken larger bucks and taking a large buck satisfys my hunting needs far more than a small one. However that is me and I can only offer you my feelings. It is up to each hunter to make their own choice what makes them a happy hunter.
Check out my page.
http://www.geocities.com/scottbowden23/mydeer.html
Nothing in the world can take the place of persistence and determination.
Calvin Coolidge
Check out my page.
http://www.geocities.com/scottbowden23/mydeer.html
Nothing in the world can take the place of persistence and determination.
Calvin Coolidge