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12-01-2002, 05:23 PM
#111
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: saint joseph missouri USA
Posts: 548
RE: Trophy Hunting?
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
<font color=red>"Oh, I forgot. You harvest small bucks because you choose to. I think I am getting it now. You are going to take care of you and yours first, right? Who cares what the consequenses are for future generations. I get your way of thinking now, so I will stop asking that question........good answer.</font id=red>
LOL!!! It's funny though. Folks have been hunting deer for generations upon generations before all this Trophy Buck Management slop became the Holy Grail. And now we're all supposed to play Chicken Little and wait for the sky to fall if we shoot a basket rack buck? <img src=icon_smile_dissapprove.gif border=0 align=middle><hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote> Well.....I am glad you feel that way...You just keep on a chucklin'!! Generation after generation???? I totally agree with you there!!!! That is why alot of states are in the shape they are in now. Including the state of Missouri, where QDM is now an option, but it wouldn't suprise me a bit if it doesn't become the norm by the way of law in the future.
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>Like I said before...pull the other one.<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>Yes, that is a good one.......By the way, why don't you grow a set and jump in a little more often?? It is real nice of ya just to chime in every once in a great while for a smart aleck comment...Get some debatable material and jump on in!! Pose up some scenarios to try to catch me crosstalking??? You know better, don't you??
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>I have a hard time listening to a "for the children" speach from folks (no one in particular) who pull out their checkbooks, pay landowners to kick other hunters off property (i.e. land leases), and then belittle still more hunters for shooting a 1 1/2 year old 8-pointer, because they wanted it to live another 2 years so they could have it mounted on their wall. The whole thing stinks of hypocrisy.<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote> Once again, you are mistaken. I can tell that question is directed at me, but the truth of the matter is, I pay NOBODY to hunt their property. I just get off of my a$$ and help the guys out when they need help, and supply them with meat for the dinner table. I have no control of who they let or do not let hunt on the property they own. They could very well shut it down to me tomorrow, and there is not a thing I could do about it. But, that is the chance I am willing to take. Instead of complaining about it, you should get up and try it sometime.
Also, like I said earlier, you can believe me or not when I say I am doing my part to help out the future of hunting. I am, and you should. If you want to call me a trophy hunter, go ahead. But remember this, I cannot control the deer and where they decide to wander. All I can do is make it more appealing for them, and then to do my part in balancing out the herd. It's guys like you who make us (QDM'ers)sick when you decide to roll every spike, forkhorn, basket, and button buck you see, but then in that one instance where one of the big boys walks infront of you and you take him down, you act like you are all that to all of your buddies. Where is the hypocrisy now!!!But thats o.k., that is another chance I am willing to take. I know I have to take the good with the bad.
So, you just keep on rollin' the small bucks, it is your choice, they are legal...................................for now.
And to Davidmil,
Can't kill enough so they come up with more generous bag limits???
Why aren't they raising the bag limits on bucks then??? They are not because there is a lack of bucks, that is why they are having you shoot does. And the overpopulation arguement doesn't work due to the fact that the existing bucks have no competition from other bucks to breed with does.
Edited by - richie3 on 12/01/2002 18:31:26
Edited by - richie3 on 12/01/2002 18:33:11
<font color=red>"Oh, I forgot. You harvest small bucks because you choose to. I think I am getting it now. You are going to take care of you and yours first, right? Who cares what the consequenses are for future generations. I get your way of thinking now, so I will stop asking that question........good answer.</font id=red>
LOL!!! It's funny though. Folks have been hunting deer for generations upon generations before all this Trophy Buck Management slop became the Holy Grail. And now we're all supposed to play Chicken Little and wait for the sky to fall if we shoot a basket rack buck? <img src=icon_smile_dissapprove.gif border=0 align=middle><hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote> Well.....I am glad you feel that way...You just keep on a chucklin'!! Generation after generation???? I totally agree with you there!!!! That is why alot of states are in the shape they are in now. Including the state of Missouri, where QDM is now an option, but it wouldn't suprise me a bit if it doesn't become the norm by the way of law in the future.
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>Like I said before...pull the other one.<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>Yes, that is a good one.......By the way, why don't you grow a set and jump in a little more often?? It is real nice of ya just to chime in every once in a great while for a smart aleck comment...Get some debatable material and jump on in!! Pose up some scenarios to try to catch me crosstalking??? You know better, don't you??
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>I have a hard time listening to a "for the children" speach from folks (no one in particular) who pull out their checkbooks, pay landowners to kick other hunters off property (i.e. land leases), and then belittle still more hunters for shooting a 1 1/2 year old 8-pointer, because they wanted it to live another 2 years so they could have it mounted on their wall. The whole thing stinks of hypocrisy.<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote> Once again, you are mistaken. I can tell that question is directed at me, but the truth of the matter is, I pay NOBODY to hunt their property. I just get off of my a$$ and help the guys out when they need help, and supply them with meat for the dinner table. I have no control of who they let or do not let hunt on the property they own. They could very well shut it down to me tomorrow, and there is not a thing I could do about it. But, that is the chance I am willing to take. Instead of complaining about it, you should get up and try it sometime.
Also, like I said earlier, you can believe me or not when I say I am doing my part to help out the future of hunting. I am, and you should. If you want to call me a trophy hunter, go ahead. But remember this, I cannot control the deer and where they decide to wander. All I can do is make it more appealing for them, and then to do my part in balancing out the herd. It's guys like you who make us (QDM'ers)sick when you decide to roll every spike, forkhorn, basket, and button buck you see, but then in that one instance where one of the big boys walks infront of you and you take him down, you act like you are all that to all of your buddies. Where is the hypocrisy now!!!But thats o.k., that is another chance I am willing to take. I know I have to take the good with the bad.
So, you just keep on rollin' the small bucks, it is your choice, they are legal...................................for now.
And to Davidmil,
Can't kill enough so they come up with more generous bag limits???
Why aren't they raising the bag limits on bucks then??? They are not because there is a lack of bucks, that is why they are having you shoot does. And the overpopulation arguement doesn't work due to the fact that the existing bucks have no competition from other bucks to breed with does.
Edited by - richie3 on 12/01/2002 18:31:26
Edited by - richie3 on 12/01/2002 18:33:11
12-01-2002, 05:33 PM
#112
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 3,903
RE: Trophy Hunting?
Richie , Richie , Richie
Your attempt at making me look like the foolish one is back firing!
How long have you been around??
When I started deerhunting we had what we called a party permit. A group of hunters could apply for a single doe tag and if lucky enough to recieve one , one hunter wore the doe tag on his arm and that group of hunters could shoot one doe. After that , they changed to a antlerless permit for individual hunters that was obtained thru lottery. You see , all this protection of the female species was to increase the entire deer herd. Wisconsin isn't the only state that went thru this. So , wouldn't you say it would be the same logic applied to decreasing the deer herd (shooting the female species)??? BTW , theres a huge difference between herd management and eradication. Try again!
You full blown trophy hunters are all alike!<img src=icon_smile_dissapprove.gif border=0 align=middle> You base your arguements on QDM and the health of the herd , buts it's all about the big racks and nothing else! Your statements have already proven your hypocracy in this arguement.
Maintaining a even buck to doe ratio is what QDM is all about , so dont go preaching QDM and in the other cheek spout off about how you'll question any experienced hunter for shooting a young buck , even after doing his part at maintaining an even buck to doe ratio!
<font color=red>Go back to to my post where I numbered questions #1 thru #8. It is the first response in black text after those questions. I would definately question it if it were an experienced hunter taking the small, young buck. The only possible exceptions now that I think about it, would be if an experienced hunter is in dire need to feed his/her family, like the one I need to hunt for, putting a young animal out of its misery due to sickness, unrecoverable injury, or immediate danger to his/her life or family members life, ect. Other than that, there is no reason what so ever, for an experienced hunter to tag a young buck.</font id=red>
That has got to be the most pathetic paragraph I've read in this whole debate!
As for the experienced hunter who spends alot of time and money on hunting and hunts in a remote area where a deer sighting is rare , your still gonna question his choice on shooting a small buck?? Oh , unless he needs the meat.
<font color=red>If I send you my address, will you mail me the regualtions book or guide that states these facts of herd reduction?? Missouri has one that I mentioned earlier, that comes right out and says the reasons why we have and need a significant doe harvest program, and in not one paragraph does it state in the name of "herd reduction" or anything close to that. QDM can be put into place in areas with a lcak of herd numbers, and still work.</font id=red>
I find it hard to believe that in Missouri your DNR hasn't stated somewhere , somehow , that they need to reduce the herd size. There are enough Wi folks around here who can vouge for the fact that the WIDNR is open about the T-Zone hunts (doe only) and the need to reduce our deer herd. It's common sense for Christs sake , do you have to see it in the hunting regs before you believe it?
For those areas that have too many does ;
I'm still waiting for a logical explanation to why it would be wrong for an experienced hunter to harvest a young buck as long as he harvested a couple does to do his part for the deer herd.
Your attempt at making me look like the foolish one is back firing!
How long have you been around??
When I started deerhunting we had what we called a party permit. A group of hunters could apply for a single doe tag and if lucky enough to recieve one , one hunter wore the doe tag on his arm and that group of hunters could shoot one doe. After that , they changed to a antlerless permit for individual hunters that was obtained thru lottery. You see , all this protection of the female species was to increase the entire deer herd. Wisconsin isn't the only state that went thru this. So , wouldn't you say it would be the same logic applied to decreasing the deer herd (shooting the female species)??? BTW , theres a huge difference between herd management and eradication. Try again!
You full blown trophy hunters are all alike!<img src=icon_smile_dissapprove.gif border=0 align=middle> You base your arguements on QDM and the health of the herd , buts it's all about the big racks and nothing else! Your statements have already proven your hypocracy in this arguement.
Maintaining a even buck to doe ratio is what QDM is all about , so dont go preaching QDM and in the other cheek spout off about how you'll question any experienced hunter for shooting a young buck , even after doing his part at maintaining an even buck to doe ratio!
<font color=red>Go back to to my post where I numbered questions #1 thru #8. It is the first response in black text after those questions. I would definately question it if it were an experienced hunter taking the small, young buck. The only possible exceptions now that I think about it, would be if an experienced hunter is in dire need to feed his/her family, like the one I need to hunt for, putting a young animal out of its misery due to sickness, unrecoverable injury, or immediate danger to his/her life or family members life, ect. Other than that, there is no reason what so ever, for an experienced hunter to tag a young buck.</font id=red>
That has got to be the most pathetic paragraph I've read in this whole debate!
As for the experienced hunter who spends alot of time and money on hunting and hunts in a remote area where a deer sighting is rare , your still gonna question his choice on shooting a small buck?? Oh , unless he needs the meat.
<font color=red>If I send you my address, will you mail me the regualtions book or guide that states these facts of herd reduction?? Missouri has one that I mentioned earlier, that comes right out and says the reasons why we have and need a significant doe harvest program, and in not one paragraph does it state in the name of "herd reduction" or anything close to that. QDM can be put into place in areas with a lcak of herd numbers, and still work.</font id=red>
I find it hard to believe that in Missouri your DNR hasn't stated somewhere , somehow , that they need to reduce the herd size. There are enough Wi folks around here who can vouge for the fact that the WIDNR is open about the T-Zone hunts (doe only) and the need to reduce our deer herd. It's common sense for Christs sake , do you have to see it in the hunting regs before you believe it?
For those areas that have too many does ;
I'm still waiting for a logical explanation to why it would be wrong for an experienced hunter to harvest a young buck as long as he harvested a couple does to do his part for the deer herd.
12-01-2002, 05:41 PM
#113
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: New Stanton PA USA
Posts: 2,213
RE: Trophy Hunting?
davidmill, nobody has ever heard me belittle someone for shooting a small buck. I truly will never understand why an experienced hunter with several bowkill bucks would want to continue to harvest small bucks, BUT, I understand that it is currently legal in most places to do so. If you are happy with your harvest, then I am happy for you, even though I cannot understand your logic. I`ll even help you drag it out, and take some photos for you!
JRW....Thank You with a capitol T! I knew this was your problem all along, I just wanted to hear you say it!
You want to talk about hypocrisy? Who am I to tell you what size buck to shoot?
Who are you to tell the man that pays the taxes on his property that he should allow you to hunt it for free, when he can make a few bucks on the deal? Maybe he should just let you farm his fields for free, too!
Not that it is any of your business, but I for one probably don`t make any more than you do. I forgo many things I would like in this life so that I may be able to hunt my leased land in the midwest. I do this because it is the most important thing to me.(besides providing for my family) I hunt in your home state, in the most crowded county of them all, and there is still many farms unhunted.
You should have just started a new thread about people leasing up YOUR LAND!
The only advise I can give someone with your mindset is this....
Kleenex...aisle 3!<img src=icon_smile_dissapprove.gif border=0 align=middle>
NRA,UBP,BASS Member
New Stanton,PA
JRW....Thank You with a capitol T! I knew this was your problem all along, I just wanted to hear you say it!
You want to talk about hypocrisy? Who am I to tell you what size buck to shoot?
Who are you to tell the man that pays the taxes on his property that he should allow you to hunt it for free, when he can make a few bucks on the deal? Maybe he should just let you farm his fields for free, too!
Not that it is any of your business, but I for one probably don`t make any more than you do. I forgo many things I would like in this life so that I may be able to hunt my leased land in the midwest. I do this because it is the most important thing to me.(besides providing for my family) I hunt in your home state, in the most crowded county of them all, and there is still many farms unhunted.
You should have just started a new thread about people leasing up YOUR LAND!
The only advise I can give someone with your mindset is this....
Kleenex...aisle 3!<img src=icon_smile_dissapprove.gif border=0 align=middle>
NRA,UBP,BASS Member
New Stanton,PA
12-01-2002, 07:31 PM
#114
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Walker LA USA
Posts: 443
RE: Trophy Hunting?
The reason you let that 1 1/2 old buck walk is because it's good for the deer herd.Shoot a doe instead.I have hunted in an area where every hunter shot every buck they saw.2/3's of the 1 1/2 old bucks were killed every year.We wound up with 10 does for every buck,late born fawns,no rutting activity.Now every management situation is different.MS has a 4 month hunting season.2 months of gun season.Too many bucks and not enough does were being killed.So they increased the doe harvest and protected the 1 1/2 old bucks.We know have a more balanced age class of bucks.We see almost as many bucks as does.We actually have a rut!In states with short gun seasons that don't coincide with the rut.More bucks live to reach maturity.Illinois comes to mind.No I don't want you to pass that basket rack deer so I can put him on MY wall.You just want to kill him because you're afraid that if you don't someone else will.I want you to let him walk so maybe me or you can kill him 3 years from now.I would rather shoot 5 does and one nice buck a year and see many more young bucks than to go back to only seeing juvenile spikes and forkhorns.Maybe this is'nt an issue were you hunt.But I've seen it happen and I don't want to go back.
Billy
WHACKEM N STACKEM
Billy
WHACKEM N STACKEM
12-01-2002, 08:57 PM
#115
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: saint joseph missouri USA
Posts: 548
RE: Trophy Hunting?
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
Richie , Richie , Richie
Your attempt at making me look like the foolish one is back firing!<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>No sir, you are doing just fine on your own.
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>How long have you been around??<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote> I guess I have been around long enough to know when some one is full of it, and get away. Nice meeting ya.
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>When I started deerhunting we had what we called a party permit. A group of hunters could apply for a single doe tag and if lucky enough to recieve one , one hunter wore the doe tag on his arm and that group of hunters could shoot one doe. After that , they changed to a antlerless permit for individual hunters that was obtained thru lottery. You see , all this protection of the female species was to increase the entire deer herd. Wisconsin isn't the only state that went thru this. So , wouldn't you say it would be the same logic applied to decreasing the deer herd (shooting the female species)???<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote> This is the problem with you. It has been proven over and over that the "old" way of thinking was incorrect, so how could the opposite be right in reversing the original if the original wasn't correct to begin with??
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>BTW , theres a huge difference between herd management and eradication. Try again!<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote> No....There is no difference. It is still a reduction in numbers we are talking about, whether it is diseased or not. If you want to reduce the total herd numbers, you kill them all. If you want to balance out the herd and make it more healthy, you cull out alot of does.
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>You full blown trophy hunters are all alike!<img src=icon_smile_dissapprove.gif border=0 align=middle> You base your arguements on QDM and the health of the herd , buts it's all about the big racks and nothing else! Your statements have already proven your hypocracy in this arguement.<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote> Yes.....I could not get a more expert opinion on hypocrisy than the one from you. And you still have not answered the question.
Why is it necessary for an experienced hunter to harvest young, small bucks, that haven't reached maturity??
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>Maintaining a even buck to doe ratio is what QDM is all about , so dont go preaching QDM and in the other cheek spout off about how you'll question any experienced hunter for shooting a young buck , even after doing his part at maintaining an even buck to doe ratio!<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>Wow...I have been stating this about QDM from the start, and now all of the sudden, your are telling me what it is all about. Gee Thanks!!
ooops! what was that?? oh...it is the buzzer going off.......time for you to turn over again....
And yes!!! Once again, I will question a experienced hunter for taking a small buck, even if he/she has taken a couple of does already!! This is NOT the correct way to practice QDM. But, if you choose to do this, it is a step in the right direction. I would be semi-proud of you!!
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>That has got to be the most pathetic paragraph I've read in this whole debate!
As for the experienced hunter who spends alot of time and money on hunting and hunts in a remote area where a deer sighting is rare , your still gonna question his choice on shooting a small buck?? Oh , unless he needs the meat.<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote> You damn right I would for the sake of this arguement.
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>I find it hard to believe that in Missouri your DNR hasn't stated somewhere , somehow , that they need to reduce the herd size. There are enough Wi folks around here who can vouge for the fact that the WIDNR is open about the T-Zone hunts (doe only) and the need to reduce our deer herd. It's common sense for Christs sake , do you have to see it in the hunting regs before you believe it?<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>Well...Step up to the plate and lets do it.
Let's also do this.....
Say you are right,(which I still do not agree with) and the reason is for reducing herd size.
States are allowing the harvest of many does. We, for the sake of arguement, agree on this.
How did it get this unbalance get this way to begin with?? If does were protected years ago from being taken out of the herd, what was it then that was taken??? Bucks is your answer whether you believe it or not. Then the herd exploded from the lack of competition between bucks for the right to breed the does.
So, if we need to harvest many does, this must mean that the bucks are in dire need of assistance to even out the herd. This is done with the letting of small, young bucks pass and the harvest of more does.
There is absolutely no way you can argue that fact...period.
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>For those areas that have too many does ;
I'm still waiting for a logical explanation to why it would be wrong for an experienced hunter to harvest a young buck as long as he harvested a couple does to do his part for the deer herd.<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>I just gave you the answer again, up above.
Richie , Richie , Richie
Your attempt at making me look like the foolish one is back firing!<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>No sir, you are doing just fine on your own.
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>How long have you been around??<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote> I guess I have been around long enough to know when some one is full of it, and get away. Nice meeting ya.
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>When I started deerhunting we had what we called a party permit. A group of hunters could apply for a single doe tag and if lucky enough to recieve one , one hunter wore the doe tag on his arm and that group of hunters could shoot one doe. After that , they changed to a antlerless permit for individual hunters that was obtained thru lottery. You see , all this protection of the female species was to increase the entire deer herd. Wisconsin isn't the only state that went thru this. So , wouldn't you say it would be the same logic applied to decreasing the deer herd (shooting the female species)???<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote> This is the problem with you. It has been proven over and over that the "old" way of thinking was incorrect, so how could the opposite be right in reversing the original if the original wasn't correct to begin with??
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>BTW , theres a huge difference between herd management and eradication. Try again!<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote> No....There is no difference. It is still a reduction in numbers we are talking about, whether it is diseased or not. If you want to reduce the total herd numbers, you kill them all. If you want to balance out the herd and make it more healthy, you cull out alot of does.
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>You full blown trophy hunters are all alike!<img src=icon_smile_dissapprove.gif border=0 align=middle> You base your arguements on QDM and the health of the herd , buts it's all about the big racks and nothing else! Your statements have already proven your hypocracy in this arguement.<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote> Yes.....I could not get a more expert opinion on hypocrisy than the one from you. And you still have not answered the question.
Why is it necessary for an experienced hunter to harvest young, small bucks, that haven't reached maturity??
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>Maintaining a even buck to doe ratio is what QDM is all about , so dont go preaching QDM and in the other cheek spout off about how you'll question any experienced hunter for shooting a young buck , even after doing his part at maintaining an even buck to doe ratio!<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>Wow...I have been stating this about QDM from the start, and now all of the sudden, your are telling me what it is all about. Gee Thanks!!
ooops! what was that?? oh...it is the buzzer going off.......time for you to turn over again....
And yes!!! Once again, I will question a experienced hunter for taking a small buck, even if he/she has taken a couple of does already!! This is NOT the correct way to practice QDM. But, if you choose to do this, it is a step in the right direction. I would be semi-proud of you!!
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>That has got to be the most pathetic paragraph I've read in this whole debate!
As for the experienced hunter who spends alot of time and money on hunting and hunts in a remote area where a deer sighting is rare , your still gonna question his choice on shooting a small buck?? Oh , unless he needs the meat.<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote> You damn right I would for the sake of this arguement.
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>I find it hard to believe that in Missouri your DNR hasn't stated somewhere , somehow , that they need to reduce the herd size. There are enough Wi folks around here who can vouge for the fact that the WIDNR is open about the T-Zone hunts (doe only) and the need to reduce our deer herd. It's common sense for Christs sake , do you have to see it in the hunting regs before you believe it?<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>Well...Step up to the plate and lets do it.
Let's also do this.....
Say you are right,(which I still do not agree with) and the reason is for reducing herd size.
States are allowing the harvest of many does. We, for the sake of arguement, agree on this.
How did it get this unbalance get this way to begin with?? If does were protected years ago from being taken out of the herd, what was it then that was taken??? Bucks is your answer whether you believe it or not. Then the herd exploded from the lack of competition between bucks for the right to breed the does.
So, if we need to harvest many does, this must mean that the bucks are in dire need of assistance to even out the herd. This is done with the letting of small, young bucks pass and the harvest of more does.
There is absolutely no way you can argue that fact...period.
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>For those areas that have too many does ;
I'm still waiting for a logical explanation to why it would be wrong for an experienced hunter to harvest a young buck as long as he harvested a couple does to do his part for the deer herd.<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>I just gave you the answer again, up above.
12-02-2002, 01:18 AM
#116
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 3,903
RE: Trophy Hunting?
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
This is the problem with you. It has been proven over and over that the "old" way of thinking was incorrect, so how could the opposite be right in reversing the original if the original wasn't correct to begin with??
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>BTW , theres a huge difference between herd management and eradication. Try again!<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote> No....There is no difference. It is still a reduction in numbers we are talking about, whether it is diseased or not. If you want to reduce the total herd numbers, you kill them all. If you want to balance out the herd and make it more healthy, you cull out alot of does.
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>I find it hard to believe that in Missouri your DNR hasn't stated somewhere , somehow , that they need to reduce the herd size. There are enough Wi folks around here who can vouge for the fact that the WIDNR is open about the T-Zone hunts (doe only) and the need to reduce our deer herd. It's common sense for Christs sake , do you have to see it in the hunting regs before you believe it?<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>Well...Step up to the plate and lets do it.
Let's also do this.....
Say you are right,(which I still do not agree with) and the reason is for reducing herd size.
So, if we need to harvest many does, this must mean that the bucks are in dire need of assistance to even out the herd. This is done with the letting of small, young bucks pass and the harvest of more does.
There is absolutely no way you can argue that fact...period.
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>
Heres an article from the WiDNR website for you.
With the state herd continuing to hover around 1.6 million animals, hunters can expect extra hunting opportunities again in 2002. The high deer population kicked off another year of special herd control seasons, with 41 (four units have been removed from the Zone T framework and are now governed by CWD regulations) Deer Management Units (DMU's) requiring Zone T status. Zone T are special antlerless only hunts held is DMU’s where it is projected that the traditional deer season framework would not reduce the deer population to within 20% of that unit’s over wintering population goal. Some of this year's Zone T DMU's will have been in that category for their second or third year. To minimize conflicts with winter recreation in the northern part of the state, Zone T DMU’s north of Hwy. 8 will not participate in the December Zone T season. Hunters should check the 2002 DMU Map to see which units are designated for Zone T in 2002. In addition to Zone T, many DMU’s will have bonus antlerless permits available for hunters who wish to harvest additional antlerless deer.
Kinda covers what I said all along in the first couple sentences , doesn't it? All the extra doe harvest opportunities are aimed at reducing the herd! If you wish to argue the difference between herd reduction and herd eradication , send Nub an email , he'll be happy to fill you in on the difference , he's from the eradication zone.
Whats with the buzzer and rolling over comment?? Still trying to make me look stupid?<img src=icon_smile_blackeye.gif border=0 align=middle> It's getting old!<img src=icon_smile_sleepy.gif border=0 align=middle>
Richie , "the old way of thinking" (very limited doe harvests) was designed to increase the deer herd...period! Do you argue this fact? The only oooops they made was allowing the limited doe harvest to go on for too long until they realized that now their faced with too big of a deer herd. Any Wisconsin hunter who hunted in the 60's , 70's or before can verify this.
As far as areas that are faced with a buck to doe ratio that is out of whack , I would encourage hunters to shoot as many doe as posible , but I sure wouldn't bat an eye at them for shooting young bucks as well. Most of this nation is faced with over population of whitetail deer.
Back to the QDM. If a hunter does his part at bringing the buck to doe ratio closer by culling does , shooting a young buck does absolutely nothing to damage the health of the herd...period! You cant argue that fact! Your arguement there is based on your trophy mentality!
Edited by - bowfanatic on 12/02/2002 02:25:11
This is the problem with you. It has been proven over and over that the "old" way of thinking was incorrect, so how could the opposite be right in reversing the original if the original wasn't correct to begin with??
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>BTW , theres a huge difference between herd management and eradication. Try again!<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote> No....There is no difference. It is still a reduction in numbers we are talking about, whether it is diseased or not. If you want to reduce the total herd numbers, you kill them all. If you want to balance out the herd and make it more healthy, you cull out alot of does.
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>I find it hard to believe that in Missouri your DNR hasn't stated somewhere , somehow , that they need to reduce the herd size. There are enough Wi folks around here who can vouge for the fact that the WIDNR is open about the T-Zone hunts (doe only) and the need to reduce our deer herd. It's common sense for Christs sake , do you have to see it in the hunting regs before you believe it?<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>Well...Step up to the plate and lets do it.
Let's also do this.....
Say you are right,(which I still do not agree with) and the reason is for reducing herd size.
So, if we need to harvest many does, this must mean that the bucks are in dire need of assistance to even out the herd. This is done with the letting of small, young bucks pass and the harvest of more does.
There is absolutely no way you can argue that fact...period.
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>
Heres an article from the WiDNR website for you.
With the state herd continuing to hover around 1.6 million animals, hunters can expect extra hunting opportunities again in 2002. The high deer population kicked off another year of special herd control seasons, with 41 (four units have been removed from the Zone T framework and are now governed by CWD regulations) Deer Management Units (DMU's) requiring Zone T status. Zone T are special antlerless only hunts held is DMU’s where it is projected that the traditional deer season framework would not reduce the deer population to within 20% of that unit’s over wintering population goal. Some of this year's Zone T DMU's will have been in that category for their second or third year. To minimize conflicts with winter recreation in the northern part of the state, Zone T DMU’s north of Hwy. 8 will not participate in the December Zone T season. Hunters should check the 2002 DMU Map to see which units are designated for Zone T in 2002. In addition to Zone T, many DMU’s will have bonus antlerless permits available for hunters who wish to harvest additional antlerless deer.
Kinda covers what I said all along in the first couple sentences , doesn't it? All the extra doe harvest opportunities are aimed at reducing the herd! If you wish to argue the difference between herd reduction and herd eradication , send Nub an email , he'll be happy to fill you in on the difference , he's from the eradication zone.
Whats with the buzzer and rolling over comment?? Still trying to make me look stupid?<img src=icon_smile_blackeye.gif border=0 align=middle> It's getting old!<img src=icon_smile_sleepy.gif border=0 align=middle>
Richie , "the old way of thinking" (very limited doe harvests) was designed to increase the deer herd...period! Do you argue this fact? The only oooops they made was allowing the limited doe harvest to go on for too long until they realized that now their faced with too big of a deer herd. Any Wisconsin hunter who hunted in the 60's , 70's or before can verify this.
As far as areas that are faced with a buck to doe ratio that is out of whack , I would encourage hunters to shoot as many doe as posible , but I sure wouldn't bat an eye at them for shooting young bucks as well. Most of this nation is faced with over population of whitetail deer.
Back to the QDM. If a hunter does his part at bringing the buck to doe ratio closer by culling does , shooting a young buck does absolutely nothing to damage the health of the herd...period! You cant argue that fact! Your arguement there is based on your trophy mentality!
Edited by - bowfanatic on 12/02/2002 02:25:11
12-02-2002, 07:31 AM
#117
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Fredericksburg Virginia USA
Posts: 13,672
RE: Trophy Hunting?
This post is directed to all who either beleive that you should only take mature bucks if you are an experienced hunter or have a fear of antler restrions being put in place due to the taking of small bucks.
Every state is different, that is why there are different restrictions in different states. One size fits all in deer herd management does not work, each state and even different areas of certain states have different restrictions.
I will only talk of the deer herds in the 2 states I am familiar with, in reality all of you should only express your opinions on the states you are familiar with the long term history of both the deer herd and the restrictions that were in place and the impacts of the restrictions on the herds.
I am familiar with both West Virginia and Virginia so I will limit my comments to the states I have personal knowledge of.
Virginia 35 years ago, the majority of counties were 1 buck a year counties, the county I hunted in allowed 2 bucks and 1 doe, there were several counties that had a closed season on deer.
West Virginia 35 years ago practiced the sacred doe philosiphy, it was bucks only, limits on bucks I am unsure of.
Virginia 25 years ago, most counties did have a deer season, many of those counties that had been closed were now 1 buck per season, most of the ones that were 1 buck per season became 2 buck counties, still no doe season, the county I normally hunted became 3 bucks and 2 doe.
West Virginia 25 years ago still practiced the sacred doe philosiphy, it was bucks only, limits on bucks I am unsure of.
Virginia 15 years ago, all counties had a deer season except two, most counties allowed 2 bucks, some three, all of the 2 buck counties allowed 1 doe, some 2, 3 buck counties were allowing 2 does.
West Virginia 15 years ago finally started to realize the sacred doe philosophy was a mistake and started allowing the harvest of doe. I had a friend who hunted West Virginia and said before they started to allow the taking of doe the average number of doe he would see in a single day was 40-50, one day he counted 108 doe and never saw a buck.
Virginia today, all counties had a deer season except two, almost every county allows 2-3 bucks and depending on the season, bow black powder or gun, 2 doe a day, every day during bow and black powder, and 2 doe a day during gun for 14 days of the gun season. There are incredible numbers of deer in Va. now. There are a ton of nice bucks even though there are a ton of buttons, 4&6 pointers and basket 8's taken every year. I started to figure out how many deer deer one hunter could legally take in Va. if they hunted every day every season, they could kill 3 bucks and over 100 doe in my county! Even with these limits and the number of bucks taken per year there are still a lot of bucks that are true wall hangers taken off of public land and even bigger ones on private land.
West Virginia today I can not comment on because I do not know personally what the herd is like today or thier restrictions.
Should we apply the regulations used in Va. to all states because we have a huge deer herd with a lot of nice bucks?
Of course not, that would be ridiculous, that makes as much sense as saying that all bows should have a draw length of 30" because a lot of bow hunters have a 30" draw length.
QDM is a personal choice, if you choose to use these practices on your property or lease that is great, but to make statements that all states/areas should practice it is ludicrous. There are states with antler restrictions and there is a reason behind those restrictions which usually is to balance the ratio of buck to doe.
If you live in a state where the buck to doe ratio is way out of whack I whole heartedly support you pushing for some form of regulation to put it in balance.
My main point over all is that no one should deride a fellow hunter for what they chose to harvest in thier state as long as it is legal.
Just remember "One sizes does not fit all!" especially in deer herd management.
Oh yea and who ever wants to take this bet I will cover, I will bet what ever amount of money any one wishes that Virginia will never put into place antler restrictions in the next 50 years!
BTW for those of you who say it is BS about deer damaging crops, you need to come to Virginai and check it out, there are farmers here that suffer huge losses of crop to deer even with 50-70 deer killed on their farm every year. Do not speak of areas you are unfamiliar with, you truly demonstrate an ignorance of what you are saying, what may be true in your area is not true every where.
The Tazman aka Martin Price
Founder and President of
Virginia Disabled Outdoorsmen Club
Every state is different, that is why there are different restrictions in different states. One size fits all in deer herd management does not work, each state and even different areas of certain states have different restrictions.
I will only talk of the deer herds in the 2 states I am familiar with, in reality all of you should only express your opinions on the states you are familiar with the long term history of both the deer herd and the restrictions that were in place and the impacts of the restrictions on the herds.
I am familiar with both West Virginia and Virginia so I will limit my comments to the states I have personal knowledge of.
Virginia 35 years ago, the majority of counties were 1 buck a year counties, the county I hunted in allowed 2 bucks and 1 doe, there were several counties that had a closed season on deer.
West Virginia 35 years ago practiced the sacred doe philosiphy, it was bucks only, limits on bucks I am unsure of.
Virginia 25 years ago, most counties did have a deer season, many of those counties that had been closed were now 1 buck per season, most of the ones that were 1 buck per season became 2 buck counties, still no doe season, the county I normally hunted became 3 bucks and 2 doe.
West Virginia 25 years ago still practiced the sacred doe philosiphy, it was bucks only, limits on bucks I am unsure of.
Virginia 15 years ago, all counties had a deer season except two, most counties allowed 2 bucks, some three, all of the 2 buck counties allowed 1 doe, some 2, 3 buck counties were allowing 2 does.
West Virginia 15 years ago finally started to realize the sacred doe philosophy was a mistake and started allowing the harvest of doe. I had a friend who hunted West Virginia and said before they started to allow the taking of doe the average number of doe he would see in a single day was 40-50, one day he counted 108 doe and never saw a buck.
Virginia today, all counties had a deer season except two, almost every county allows 2-3 bucks and depending on the season, bow black powder or gun, 2 doe a day, every day during bow and black powder, and 2 doe a day during gun for 14 days of the gun season. There are incredible numbers of deer in Va. now. There are a ton of nice bucks even though there are a ton of buttons, 4&6 pointers and basket 8's taken every year. I started to figure out how many deer deer one hunter could legally take in Va. if they hunted every day every season, they could kill 3 bucks and over 100 doe in my county! Even with these limits and the number of bucks taken per year there are still a lot of bucks that are true wall hangers taken off of public land and even bigger ones on private land.
West Virginia today I can not comment on because I do not know personally what the herd is like today or thier restrictions.
Should we apply the regulations used in Va. to all states because we have a huge deer herd with a lot of nice bucks?
Of course not, that would be ridiculous, that makes as much sense as saying that all bows should have a draw length of 30" because a lot of bow hunters have a 30" draw length.
QDM is a personal choice, if you choose to use these practices on your property or lease that is great, but to make statements that all states/areas should practice it is ludicrous. There are states with antler restrictions and there is a reason behind those restrictions which usually is to balance the ratio of buck to doe.
If you live in a state where the buck to doe ratio is way out of whack I whole heartedly support you pushing for some form of regulation to put it in balance.
My main point over all is that no one should deride a fellow hunter for what they chose to harvest in thier state as long as it is legal.
Just remember "One sizes does not fit all!" especially in deer herd management.
Oh yea and who ever wants to take this bet I will cover, I will bet what ever amount of money any one wishes that Virginia will never put into place antler restrictions in the next 50 years!
BTW for those of you who say it is BS about deer damaging crops, you need to come to Virginai and check it out, there are farmers here that suffer huge losses of crop to deer even with 50-70 deer killed on their farm every year. Do not speak of areas you are unfamiliar with, you truly demonstrate an ignorance of what you are saying, what may be true in your area is not true every where.
The Tazman aka Martin Price
Founder and President of
Virginia Disabled Outdoorsmen Club
12-02-2002, 07:36 AM
#118
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Montgomery IL USA
Posts: 1,231
RE: Trophy Hunting?
Richie,
<font color=red>"By the way, why don't you grow a set and jump in a little more often??"</font id=red>
I would ask that you keep your mind off my anatomy. You're not my type. Thank you.
JRW
<font color=red>"By the way, why don't you grow a set and jump in a little more often??"</font id=red>
I would ask that you keep your mind off my anatomy. You're not my type. Thank you.
JRW
12-02-2002, 07:43 AM
#119
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Montgomery IL USA
Posts: 1,231
RE: Trophy Hunting?
Big Country,
<font color=red>"JRW....Thank You with a capitol T! I knew this was your problem all along, I just wanted to hear you say it! You want to talk about hypocrisy? Who am I to tell you what size buck to shoot? Who are you to tell the man that pays the taxes on his property that he should allow you to hunt it for free, when he can make a few bucks on the deal?"</font id=red>
You'd have a point...IF I ever said anything bad about landowners who lease out to hunters...which I didn't...did I? Please try reading what I wrote...not what you wished I had wrote. <img src=icon_smile_dissapprove.gif border=0 align=middle>
By the way...did I say anywhere that people shouldn't lease hunting land? NO.
Thanks for playing. Better luck next time. <img src=icon_smile_dissapprove.gif border=0 align=middle>
JRW
<font color=red>"JRW....Thank You with a capitol T! I knew this was your problem all along, I just wanted to hear you say it! You want to talk about hypocrisy? Who am I to tell you what size buck to shoot? Who are you to tell the man that pays the taxes on his property that he should allow you to hunt it for free, when he can make a few bucks on the deal?"</font id=red>
You'd have a point...IF I ever said anything bad about landowners who lease out to hunters...which I didn't...did I? Please try reading what I wrote...not what you wished I had wrote. <img src=icon_smile_dissapprove.gif border=0 align=middle>
By the way...did I say anywhere that people shouldn't lease hunting land? NO.
Thanks for playing. Better luck next time. <img src=icon_smile_dissapprove.gif border=0 align=middle>
JRW
12-02-2002, 09:23 AM
#120
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Logan Ia USA
Posts: 678
RE: Trophy Hunting?
Wow!!! You guys have been busy while I was away on Turkey day vacation.
Took me half an hour to read all the posts that have been made since I was last logged on.<img src=icon_smile_shock.gif border=0 align=middle>
I feel like I left Bowfanatic to hold down the fort!!! He had some help though and is doing a very good job.
One thing I havn't seen talked about in this whole (herd reduction, herd improving) part of this debate is the role the non-hunting public is having in the amount of deer tags being handed out.
Oh yes they are playing a big part in this as well, you see the hit deer with thier cars and this makes them very angry!!!<img src=icon_smile_angry.gif border=0 align=middle> Then insurance companies pay for the cars <img src=icon_smile_blackeye.gif border=0 align=middle> they then raise the price of insurance on all people.<img src=icon_smile_shock.gif border=0 align=middle> These people complain to thier senators or anyone who will listen and these people talk to the DNR about what can be done about it.
DNR people say we need to reduce the herd, but if we do this then we will not have as many deer to hunt then we lose money from all those deer tags<img src=icon_smile_dissapprove.gif border=0 align=middle>, How can we keep people hunting deer and yet keep people from having deer wreck thier cars?
If we have less deer, but more big bucks, then everyone would be happy right!!!
This is just a little senario about why a state would be interested in balancing out the deer herd.
In my grandpa's time they could hunt all day and not see a deer in SW Iowa, now you can't step out your back door without seeing one. People have been shooting deer anyway they want for a long time and this has not caused a deer crisis as of yet.
Can you truely say that there are less trophy deer now than 20 years ago in your area?
In Iowa I garantee there are more big deer now than then. Nature balances out the herd!!! Shoot more bucks, and does have more buck fawns, shoot more does, and does have more doe fawns!!!
I love the argument about shooting so called scrub bucks<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>, How do you know he wasn't just having a bad year? Maybe he was a late bloomer? Sounds like just an excuse you use when you want to shoot something that doesn't fit into your criteria. I have hunted the same area for 15 years now and with the exception of one or two bucks (which I can not be sure of) I have not been able to follow one buck for enough years to make the scrub buck determination.
I'm back so feel free to take your shots now!!!<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>
" Anyone can be a father, but it takes a real man to be a Dad"
Took me half an hour to read all the posts that have been made since I was last logged on.<img src=icon_smile_shock.gif border=0 align=middle>
I feel like I left Bowfanatic to hold down the fort!!! He had some help though and is doing a very good job.
One thing I havn't seen talked about in this whole (herd reduction, herd improving) part of this debate is the role the non-hunting public is having in the amount of deer tags being handed out.
Oh yes they are playing a big part in this as well, you see the hit deer with thier cars and this makes them very angry!!!<img src=icon_smile_angry.gif border=0 align=middle> Then insurance companies pay for the cars <img src=icon_smile_blackeye.gif border=0 align=middle> they then raise the price of insurance on all people.<img src=icon_smile_shock.gif border=0 align=middle> These people complain to thier senators or anyone who will listen and these people talk to the DNR about what can be done about it.
DNR people say we need to reduce the herd, but if we do this then we will not have as many deer to hunt then we lose money from all those deer tags<img src=icon_smile_dissapprove.gif border=0 align=middle>, How can we keep people hunting deer and yet keep people from having deer wreck thier cars?
If we have less deer, but more big bucks, then everyone would be happy right!!!
This is just a little senario about why a state would be interested in balancing out the deer herd.
In my grandpa's time they could hunt all day and not see a deer in SW Iowa, now you can't step out your back door without seeing one. People have been shooting deer anyway they want for a long time and this has not caused a deer crisis as of yet.
Can you truely say that there are less trophy deer now than 20 years ago in your area?
In Iowa I garantee there are more big deer now than then. Nature balances out the herd!!! Shoot more bucks, and does have more buck fawns, shoot more does, and does have more doe fawns!!!
I love the argument about shooting so called scrub bucks<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>, How do you know he wasn't just having a bad year? Maybe he was a late bloomer? Sounds like just an excuse you use when you want to shoot something that doesn't fit into your criteria. I have hunted the same area for 15 years now and with the exception of one or two bucks (which I can not be sure of) I have not been able to follow one buck for enough years to make the scrub buck determination.
I'm back so feel free to take your shots now!!!<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>
" Anyone can be a father, but it takes a real man to be a Dad"