"Cull buck" thoughts
12-14-2006, 01:26 PM
#31
Site Bouncer
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Illinois
Posts: 4,099
RE: "Cull buck" thoughts
ORIGINAL: TNBowHuntr
How about these deer? These deer are absolutely cull deer, unless you just want to constantly see ugly scrub bucks year after year. I don't know about anyone else but I dont want anything like this knocking up my does. I would MUCH rather see one of these deer die than a 60"-110" 1.5 - 2.5 year old deer. If its just as much of a trophy, why not eliminate these deer and allow your bucks with better genetics grow up and spread more seed? Most hunters placed in a position to shoot these deer,or a 1.5 yr old 90" pencil horned 8 pointer, would shoot the 8. My question is why if its the same trophy to you?? Why not take out bad genetics, which is certainly what it is in a lot of cases.
How about these deer? These deer are absolutely cull deer, unless you just want to constantly see ugly scrub bucks year after year. I don't know about anyone else but I dont want anything like this knocking up my does. I would MUCH rather see one of these deer die than a 60"-110" 1.5 - 2.5 year old deer. If its just as much of a trophy, why not eliminate these deer and allow your bucks with better genetics grow up and spread more seed? Most hunters placed in a position to shoot these deer,or a 1.5 yr old 90" pencil horned 8 pointer, would shoot the 8. My question is why if its the same trophy to you?? Why not take out bad genetics, which is certainly what it is in a lot of cases.
It's a natural grown deer.....not all will be or are supposed to be trophy bucks!
(Now I can seehow Hitler was able torise to power[:'(])
12-14-2006, 01:26 PM
#32
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Wisconsin and Canada
Posts: 2,415
RE: "Cull buck" thoughts
ORIGINAL: rybohunter
I'll give you MAYBE the 2nd pic, but the other 2 bucks are not cull bucks at all.
I'll give you MAYBE the 2nd pic, but the other 2 bucks are not cull bucks at all.
12-14-2006, 01:30 PM
#33
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location:
Posts: 92
RE: "Cull buck" thoughts
The first deer was 3.5 years old. The others, 2.5, granted the last one could have been from injury, but im seriously doubting it, no injury or scarring to speak of, no other deformitys other than the antlers. And the 2nd deer is a no brainer,In its second year, itshorns were not even big enough to tag as a buck, not to mention they go every which way.. And i stumbled across a trail cam pic.. and this one you think is not a cull deer either?? Before you say its a young deer look at the size of its head and for around here, with the size of that deer,i can honestly tell you that is not his first set of horns.
12-14-2006, 02:14 PM
#35
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location:
Posts: 1,118
RE: "Cull buck" thoughts
ORIGINAL: quiksilver
The truth about hunters is (and I don't mean to offend anybody by this), they have no idea how old the deer are that they're shooting, and they don't understand the etiology of an antler deformity. They see a small rack, they just presume that it's an old buck with "bad genes." Newsflash: All yearlings aren't spikes, and just because he's a spike doesn't mean that he's "genetically inferior." They see a 4x1, and presume that he needs to be eliminated because he's "genetically inferior." They have no idea that he probably just has a bad hoof on the good side, or that he's only a yearling. He may have gotten smacked by a car orsplit ahoof.
Sorry, but the gene pool within a free rangingherd is essentially the same. They are all 99.999% identical. Shooting every deer with a scrub rack isn't going to change the genetics of your herd. You're probably just shooting all your youngsters. Honestly, if you want to introduce new genes, you'd have to buy deer from Saskatchewan or some remote area, and have them shipped into your area and released. A physical injury to a deer will not alter its genetic makeup.
I would argue that there is no such thing as a "cull" deer. In my opinion, deer are either mature or not mature.
It's like this: Imagine an early dropped buck fawn - survives his first winter and is well-fed.At 1.5 he's got a great potential, sporting a thin 4x4 rack - 14" outside- good food, good muscle tone. Joe Hunter Asays to himself "that's a1.5 year oldbuck thathas monster potential." Joe Hunter B says "That's a runt 2.5 year old, gotta cull him. He fires and misses. Over the winter,our bucksplinters his lower left front leg in a rocky crevasse. Now the next fall, he's sporting a nice, heavy4 point left antler, with a gangly fork on the right. Now, Joe Hunter A says "that's a cull buck with bad genetics - gotta shoot him before he reproduces." He kills him and never even notices the partially-mended fracture in the lowleft leg. He tells his buddies that he culled a 3.5 year old4x2 and did the herd a favor. The truth is that this is a perfectly normal2.5 year old deer that never reached maturity due to guys incorrectly field-judging him as a "cull" deer.
The truth about hunters is (and I don't mean to offend anybody by this), they have no idea how old the deer are that they're shooting, and they don't understand the etiology of an antler deformity. They see a small rack, they just presume that it's an old buck with "bad genes." Newsflash: All yearlings aren't spikes, and just because he's a spike doesn't mean that he's "genetically inferior." They see a 4x1, and presume that he needs to be eliminated because he's "genetically inferior." They have no idea that he probably just has a bad hoof on the good side, or that he's only a yearling. He may have gotten smacked by a car orsplit ahoof.
Sorry, but the gene pool within a free rangingherd is essentially the same. They are all 99.999% identical. Shooting every deer with a scrub rack isn't going to change the genetics of your herd. You're probably just shooting all your youngsters. Honestly, if you want to introduce new genes, you'd have to buy deer from Saskatchewan or some remote area, and have them shipped into your area and released. A physical injury to a deer will not alter its genetic makeup.
I would argue that there is no such thing as a "cull" deer. In my opinion, deer are either mature or not mature.
It's like this: Imagine an early dropped buck fawn - survives his first winter and is well-fed.At 1.5 he's got a great potential, sporting a thin 4x4 rack - 14" outside- good food, good muscle tone. Joe Hunter Asays to himself "that's a1.5 year oldbuck thathas monster potential." Joe Hunter B says "That's a runt 2.5 year old, gotta cull him. He fires and misses. Over the winter,our bucksplinters his lower left front leg in a rocky crevasse. Now the next fall, he's sporting a nice, heavy4 point left antler, with a gangly fork on the right. Now, Joe Hunter A says "that's a cull buck with bad genetics - gotta shoot him before he reproduces." He kills him and never even notices the partially-mended fracture in the lowleft leg. He tells his buddies that he culled a 3.5 year old4x2 and did the herd a favor. The truth is that this is a perfectly normal2.5 year old deer that never reached maturity due to guys incorrectly field-judging him as a "cull" deer.
12-14-2006, 02:33 PM
#37
Dominant Buck
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location:
Posts: 21,043
RE: "Cull buck" thoughts
Hey Quick:
Question.....If a 2.5 yr old buck is likely one of th eolder deer in my herd.....which ones shoudl I be taking? I shot a 2.5 and a 3.5 this year.....and I only SAW one deer that might be older.
Or...should I not take a buck? I'm ready to do whatever to help my herd (which I KNOW is to take more does, too).....but I also would enjoy taking a buck. Maybe only take one, next year? I'm not above taking none.
Jeff
Question.....If a 2.5 yr old buck is likely one of th eolder deer in my herd.....which ones shoudl I be taking? I shot a 2.5 and a 3.5 this year.....and I only SAW one deer that might be older.
Or...should I not take a buck? I'm ready to do whatever to help my herd (which I KNOW is to take more does, too).....but I also would enjoy taking a buck. Maybe only take one, next year? I'm not above taking none.
Jeff
12-14-2006, 02:39 PM
#38
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Northern Idaho's Panhandle
Posts: 4,436
RE: "Cull buck" thoughts
ORIGINAL: tsoc
I don't like the term cull and I don't think it is a very intelligent term to use when speaking to folks who don't hunt.It is a degrading term and makes it appear that we are in fact raising a herd instead of hunting them under fair chase conditions.
You will never hear me using that word.
I don't like the term cull and I don't think it is a very intelligent term to use when speaking to folks who don't hunt.It is a degrading term and makes it appear that we are in fact raising a herd instead of hunting them under fair chase conditions.
You will never hear me using that word.
130 4x4 is a cull.... I don't know I kinda like 130 class 4x4's...
Cull of mine from 00, I just dont see any cull in a buck like this..
12-14-2006, 02:47 PM
#39
Site Bouncer
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Illinois
Posts: 4,099
RE: "Cull buck" thoughts
ORIGINAL: SBGobblers
Hey Quick:
Question.....If a 2.5 yr old buck is likely one of th eolder deer in my herd.....which ones shoudl I be taking? I shot a 2.5 and a 3.5 this year.....and I only SAW one deer that might be older.
Or...should I not take a buck? I'm ready to do whatever to help my herd (which I KNOW is to take more does, too).....but I also would enjoy taking a buck. Maybe only take one, next year? I'm not above taking none.
Jeff
Hey Quick:
Question.....If a 2.5 yr old buck is likely one of th eolder deer in my herd.....which ones shoudl I be taking? I shot a 2.5 and a 3.5 this year.....and I only SAW one deer that might be older.
Or...should I not take a buck? I'm ready to do whatever to help my herd (which I KNOW is to take more does, too).....but I also would enjoy taking a buck. Maybe only take one, next year? I'm not above taking none.
Jeff
I know this question wasn't to me but If I could try to answer I'd like to.
If you have alot of deer on the properties you hunt butmostof the bucks you are seeing are 2.5 years old, I would venture to guess your herd is fine as long as you don't have too many does. I say this beause if you are seeing alot of 2.5 year old deerthen the older ones are there. You may not see them, but they are there.
Keep the doe population in check as best you can and hunt what youprefere as far as bucks goas it sounds like they are there...all ages.
12-14-2006, 02:47 PM
#40
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 5,716
RE: "Cull buck" thoughts
SB - Shoot whatever make you happy. In a lot of areas - particularly areas that have a lot of vehicle traffic or areas that get pounded by hunters - a 2.5 or 3.5 year old deer is near the top of the age structure (due to hunting/poaching/motor vehicle collisions).
I know where I'm at, just taking a 2.5 year old every year is a task in and of itself. I'd say that Rob and Rybo can attest to that.
Due to whatever external factors, not every hunting area is conducive to growing 4, 5, or 6 year old bucks.
You know your own herd. Just ride around over the summer and take a good inventory of what's lurking. You'll know what makes a respectable buck for your area - once the season comes, you'll know a good buck when you see it. That's my best advice. If you want to increase the age structure, you might have to take a pass one season and hope he makes it to the next year without incident. That's my .02
I know where I'm at, just taking a 2.5 year old every year is a task in and of itself. I'd say that Rob and Rybo can attest to that.
Due to whatever external factors, not every hunting area is conducive to growing 4, 5, or 6 year old bucks.
You know your own herd. Just ride around over the summer and take a good inventory of what's lurking. You'll know what makes a respectable buck for your area - once the season comes, you'll know a good buck when you see it. That's my best advice. If you want to increase the age structure, you might have to take a pass one season and hope he makes it to the next year without incident. That's my .02