how is this "hunting"
11-07-2006, 07:20 AM
#81
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location:
Posts: 242
RE: how is this "hunting"
ROFLOL!!!!
Hey Huck, did you know Casey still sings that stupid "Menomenon" song when we go morning hunting? LOL!!! You've corrupted my boy you westerner you. It's getting harder and harder to get him into a treestand...Will says this...Will says that...blah, blah, blah...spot and stalk is for real hunters...blah, blah, blah...
Would you please tell this boy it's o.k. to hunt from a tree stand, please? He's wearing me out. ROFLOL!!!
By the way, when Hillbilly is president and we have to sneak up on deer and break their necks, Will's the only guy I know with photographic proof he can indeed sneak up on a deer and grab it by the antlers! Didn't believe it myself until I saw the photos. Good grief. (before you ask, yes it was a wild deer).
Hey Huck, did you know Casey still sings that stupid "Menomenon" song when we go morning hunting? LOL!!! You've corrupted my boy you westerner you. It's getting harder and harder to get him into a treestand...Will says this...Will says that...blah, blah, blah...spot and stalk is for real hunters...blah, blah, blah...
Would you please tell this boy it's o.k. to hunt from a tree stand, please? He's wearing me out. ROFLOL!!!
By the way, when Hillbilly is president and we have to sneak up on deer and break their necks, Will's the only guy I know with photographic proof he can indeed sneak up on a deer and grab it by the antlers! Didn't believe it myself until I saw the photos. Good grief. (before you ask, yes it was a wild deer).
11-07-2006, 09:21 AM
#82
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Upstate New York
Posts: 2,435
RE: how is this "hunting"
ORIGINAL: JeremiahJohnson
Planter I'd sure like to buy you a beverage of your choice mister. I do believe that's the first apology I've ever seen on a hunting forum (guess I spend too much timereading bowsite). Regardless of your position you just gained some respect in my book.
Planter I'd sure like to buy you a beverage of your choice mister. I do believe that's the first apology I've ever seen on a hunting forum (guess I spend too much timereading bowsite). Regardless of your position you just gained some respect in my book.
11-07-2006, 12:24 PM
#83
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location:
Posts: 1,149
RE: how is this "hunting"
I didn't check this forum for a coupledays and was quite suprised at all the posts on here. I am 15 years old and will again state thatI am appaled at what some people have made hunting. I shot my first buck last year with a muzzleloader and my first doe this year with a bow. I am most certainly nota trophy hunter as I treasure my doe as much as my buck. I have come to the realization that hunting is more than killing. I enjoy the challenge that comes from it and try to keep it as ethical as possible. My uncle does not even get excited over the deer he kills because he only hunts for trophies and bragging rights. If you really enjoy hunting it should not matter what you harvest. That is whyI state before all of you that Ralph and Vicki Cianciarulo and Realtree's crew are not in the right mindset if you ask me. Anyone who resorts to hunting the places they do only does it for the trophy. I do think of them as the best of people and enjoy watching their hunts. Some of you have stated that you do not shoot trophy deer in these places. I know this has truth, but why do you have to go there for such a hunt? Enjoy the real outdoors and don't turn hunting into a game. You say that you want to enjoy nature and only hunt canned hunts to do so. This is not true. If you really wanted to view nature you would not have to go there and spend big money. If you wanted buffalo meat you wouldn't have to go there and shoot it. You can ramble on and on about how canned hunts are ethical or hard, but they can never be real. If you hunt a 10,000 acre place in Africa with truly wild game, then it is entirely different, but you are still paying too much just for a kill. I will state that if you were a real hunter you would really hunt. All trophies in the wild are hard to get and that is the reason I hunt them. I give them a completely fair chance and enjoy their evasion tactics.I get frustrated at missing or losing one but that is the fun. I know that these animals have every way possible of evading me and that makes me feel like a hunter. I won't resort to shooting an animal in a fence. Everyone should decide their ownhunting methods and I am sharing my views. It's aGAME if you have to PAY to shoot it. End of story.
11-07-2006, 06:28 PM
#85
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Erie, Colorado
Posts: 1,530
RE: how is this "hunting"
Actually, that’s inexperience talking.
Outdoorlover,
Many of the philosophies presented here have their basis in assumption, speculation, and a lack of first hand experience (I’ll leave a lack of tolerance out for now). Surly you’re not going to rely on them?
I have a question for you. If you truly believe that these animals have no possible means of escape, then why are theyoutside of the fence? Again, they do not just drop from the sky. Many and I do mean many, hunters take severe advantage of this fact (animals escaping). If you do not believe me, try a Texas hunting forum. There are plenty for you to visit. I, personally, have watched animals move from one side of a fence to the other.
The benefits of high fence (the why):
Zoos keep animals from becoming extinct. High fence owners keep animal for re-introduction.
Did you know, for example, that axis deer were completely shot out in their native habitat? Now, thanks to the assistance of high fence owner in North America (many of them are extraordinary conservationists. Their love for animals is as deep as yours), axis deer are being reintroduced to their place of origin. The same can be said for David Pere deer. You surly know about our American bison? They were nearly extinct. Thank goodness we had “fenced” landowner with a little foresight to save them. How about New Zealand? Where do you think all the great hunting came from that exists on those two islands? Son, in Africa, one of the poorest places on the planet, lions are being raised behind high fence. So are Rhinos. If we didn’t have the fences, they would all be gone! That’s a reality!
The how
Where do they get the money to support their conservation endeavors (Anti poaching troops need to feed their families; their service usually is not free)? It’s easy- they sell hunts. You see, begging has not worked nor has pleading!
Yes, there are some rats out there (they’re in it just for the money)-I will not deny that. Beware! Do your homework!
If you believe they are all wrong, then you are doing wildlife a disservice.
The when
All wildlife needs to be managed. These land owners need to remove does, fawns and cull animals on a regular basis. That’s why they sell hunts. They’re able to get two birds with a single stone-money to support their wildlife and population control. As conservationist, they are not into killing. However, they recognize it as a necessary evil to maintain a healthy herd.
In conclusion
You are absolutely right. Hunting should not be about just the killing. For many of us, it goes well beyond that. There is a time and a place for everything. That my friend is something I hope someday you understand. To make blanket statements without really diving into the “when, why, and how” should be avoided at all costs. Sometimes we have to check our emotions at the door and deal with the realities in life.
At the young age of 15, I pray you have many years of adventure and discovery. On your journey, please I ask, learn to keep an open mind!
I have never hunted America’s indigenous big game species within a high fence (exception: I was asked to help cull six bull elk from a 1200 acre ranch. Previous attempts failed to yield the correct results-mine too). I probaly never will. But, I have hunted many places around the world. Some were behind high fence.Trust me, my mind and my eyes have been left wide open. That’s why I say “not everything is as it appears on the surface”.
For the record, you won’t see my name in any record book, and I still get very excited about my hunting and harvests. Not all of them have horns….
Good luck to you buddy!
Outdoorlover,
Many of the philosophies presented here have their basis in assumption, speculation, and a lack of first hand experience (I’ll leave a lack of tolerance out for now). Surly you’re not going to rely on them?
I have a question for you. If you truly believe that these animals have no possible means of escape, then why are theyoutside of the fence? Again, they do not just drop from the sky. Many and I do mean many, hunters take severe advantage of this fact (animals escaping). If you do not believe me, try a Texas hunting forum. There are plenty for you to visit. I, personally, have watched animals move from one side of a fence to the other.
The benefits of high fence (the why):
Zoos keep animals from becoming extinct. High fence owners keep animal for re-introduction.
Did you know, for example, that axis deer were completely shot out in their native habitat? Now, thanks to the assistance of high fence owner in North America (many of them are extraordinary conservationists. Their love for animals is as deep as yours), axis deer are being reintroduced to their place of origin. The same can be said for David Pere deer. You surly know about our American bison? They were nearly extinct. Thank goodness we had “fenced” landowner with a little foresight to save them. How about New Zealand? Where do you think all the great hunting came from that exists on those two islands? Son, in Africa, one of the poorest places on the planet, lions are being raised behind high fence. So are Rhinos. If we didn’t have the fences, they would all be gone! That’s a reality!
The how
Where do they get the money to support their conservation endeavors (Anti poaching troops need to feed their families; their service usually is not free)? It’s easy- they sell hunts. You see, begging has not worked nor has pleading!
Yes, there are some rats out there (they’re in it just for the money)-I will not deny that. Beware! Do your homework!
If you believe they are all wrong, then you are doing wildlife a disservice.
The when
All wildlife needs to be managed. These land owners need to remove does, fawns and cull animals on a regular basis. That’s why they sell hunts. They’re able to get two birds with a single stone-money to support their wildlife and population control. As conservationist, they are not into killing. However, they recognize it as a necessary evil to maintain a healthy herd.
In conclusion
You are absolutely right. Hunting should not be about just the killing. For many of us, it goes well beyond that. There is a time and a place for everything. That my friend is something I hope someday you understand. To make blanket statements without really diving into the “when, why, and how” should be avoided at all costs. Sometimes we have to check our emotions at the door and deal with the realities in life.
At the young age of 15, I pray you have many years of adventure and discovery. On your journey, please I ask, learn to keep an open mind!
I have never hunted America’s indigenous big game species within a high fence (exception: I was asked to help cull six bull elk from a 1200 acre ranch. Previous attempts failed to yield the correct results-mine too). I probaly never will. But, I have hunted many places around the world. Some were behind high fence.Trust me, my mind and my eyes have been left wide open. That’s why I say “not everything is as it appears on the surface”.
For the record, you won’t see my name in any record book, and I still get very excited about my hunting and harvests. Not all of them have horns….
Good luck to you buddy!
11-07-2006, 07:05 PM
#87
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: WV
Posts: 4,484
RE: how is this "hunting"
ORIGINAL: iamyourhuckleberry
Actually, that’s inexperience talking.
Actually, that’s inexperience talking.
No it's not, It's innocense. It's someone who has a pure outlook on what hunting is supposed to be. "The emporer is wearing no clothes"
I have a question for you. If you truly believe that these animals have no possible means of escape, then why are theyoutside of the fence?.
Maintenance Problems--the same reason a dairy cow gets out.
Zoos keep animals from becoming extinct. High fence owners keep animal for re-introduction.
Yeah, that's a big percentage. I'm glad to hear it's not ALL about the money
Again, not talking Africa (just as outdoorslover was not talking about Africa)
I'm saying there is NO valid conservation reason to have indigenous North American Game behind a fence. period.
Good luck and good hunting
11-07-2006, 08:16 PM
#88
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location:
Posts: 242
RE: how is this "hunting"
Huck, it's like trying to describe the color purple to a manborn blind.
I've never seen so many close-minded eyes-wide-shut people on this website - it's discouraging.
My young 15-year-old hunter, did you pay for your tag to hunt whitetail? WHAT! You paid to hunt those animals?! Get used to it my friend. Tag prices go up and the land to hunt them is more and more difficult to find. When I was 15 I worked on my grandfather's farm, my father's auto body shop and managed to pull down good grades in school. My friends thought I was spoiled because I had a brand new rod and reel, a rubber raft from which to fish Big Indian Creek that flowed through our farm and a brand new .22 rifle with which to hunt squirrels. No, I worked my brains out, that was the difference.
This year alone I've paid over $200 in tags and licenses just to hunt locally in Indiana. When it's over in January, it's over. But wait!!! I'm now an old fart with more disposable income. I can afford to go to Texas and bow hunt exotics in a highly challenging and safe atmosphere. I got my butt kicked for four days and did not get my exotic. I gladly handed over the money for my adventure and cherrish the friends I made and the excitement of the chase. The animals won - good for them.
High Fence does not equal canned.
High Fence does not equal canned.
High Fence does not equal canned.
High Fence does not equal canned.
High Fence does not equal canned.
High Fence does not equal canned.
High Fence does not equal canned.
High Fence does not equal canned.
High Fence does not equal canned.
High Fence does not equal canned.
Huck you forgot to mention that the natural state of these great creatures is preserved as closely as possible in the reputable NOT CANNED high fence operations.
Unless you try a reputable place you will never get it.
At 15 I would hope you learn to do your homework before you develope an opinion about anything. In only 3 years you will be voting. Do us all a favor and turn the tv off, write the candidates and ask them the questions of interest to you (some of this can be obtained on the net, but usually not the really hot topics). Take note of their prepared responses and vote responsibly.
That crack about zoos and high fence being a low percentage Hillbilly - do your homework too. Zoos do NOTHING to preserve and reintroduce species of any kind. It never worked and still does not work. In the real world only those things of value are preserved.
"If you really want to preserve a species decide to eat it..." Ted Nugent.
I've never seen so many close-minded eyes-wide-shut people on this website - it's discouraging.
My young 15-year-old hunter, did you pay for your tag to hunt whitetail? WHAT! You paid to hunt those animals?! Get used to it my friend. Tag prices go up and the land to hunt them is more and more difficult to find. When I was 15 I worked on my grandfather's farm, my father's auto body shop and managed to pull down good grades in school. My friends thought I was spoiled because I had a brand new rod and reel, a rubber raft from which to fish Big Indian Creek that flowed through our farm and a brand new .22 rifle with which to hunt squirrels. No, I worked my brains out, that was the difference.
This year alone I've paid over $200 in tags and licenses just to hunt locally in Indiana. When it's over in January, it's over. But wait!!! I'm now an old fart with more disposable income. I can afford to go to Texas and bow hunt exotics in a highly challenging and safe atmosphere. I got my butt kicked for four days and did not get my exotic. I gladly handed over the money for my adventure and cherrish the friends I made and the excitement of the chase. The animals won - good for them.
High Fence does not equal canned.
High Fence does not equal canned.
High Fence does not equal canned.
High Fence does not equal canned.
High Fence does not equal canned.
High Fence does not equal canned.
High Fence does not equal canned.
High Fence does not equal canned.
High Fence does not equal canned.
High Fence does not equal canned.
Huck you forgot to mention that the natural state of these great creatures is preserved as closely as possible in the reputable NOT CANNED high fence operations.
Unless you try a reputable place you will never get it.
At 15 I would hope you learn to do your homework before you develope an opinion about anything. In only 3 years you will be voting. Do us all a favor and turn the tv off, write the candidates and ask them the questions of interest to you (some of this can be obtained on the net, but usually not the really hot topics). Take note of their prepared responses and vote responsibly.
That crack about zoos and high fence being a low percentage Hillbilly - do your homework too. Zoos do NOTHING to preserve and reintroduce species of any kind. It never worked and still does not work. In the real world only those things of value are preserved.
"If you really want to preserve a species decide to eat it..." Ted Nugent.
11-07-2006, 08:51 PM
#89
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: WV
Posts: 4,484
RE: how is this "hunting"
Again JJ, as I have now mentioned for several times I am NOT Talking about exotics. If you want you can shoot them on a 10,000 acre ranch or you can chase them around a half-acre dog kennel until you have blisters on your trigger finger and I will never say a word other than "rediculous" perhaps in some cases. I will speak up however if Native North American game is high-fenced and I guaranatee you that there is 1%, maybe, or less, of people who own/manage/market a high fence operation FOR NORTH AMERICAN GAME who do it because of conservation reasons. Good luck and good hunting
It's not????
You make it sound like hunting is a religion.
11-07-2006, 11:19 PM
#90
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Erie, Colorado
Posts: 1,530
RE: how is this "hunting"
"NO valid conservation reason to have indigenous North American Game behind a fence. period".
I'll give you one:
"if it's brown, it's down".
I've seen that concept in action back east on numerous occassions.
here's another:
"if it flies, it dies". I know...totally unrelated.
Argue your point with our American Bison, and the less than 1% that spared them.
http://www.yptenc.org.uk/docs/factsheets/animal_facts/american_bison.html
Hold on a second, bison are not big game animals. they're just docile penned raised pets.
Argue your point with our Jagaurs.
http://www.kindwoman.com/jaguar1.html
Argue your point with Florida's panthers.
http://www.kidsplanet.org/factsheets/florida_panther.html
Argue your point with Tules elk.
http://www.oaklandzoo.org/atoz/aztlelk.html
ALL of these animals were hunted to near extinction. They are slowly rebounding. A lot of their recoverycan be attributed to private land owners with high fences. Thank you Landowners (whatever percentage)! Would you like me to provide more links?
How about the true eastern US andCanada elk. Oh wait, they're gone, no point in arguing there! Seems they were wiped out as humans continued to expand. Call me stupid or something, but the last time I checked we humans just hit 6 billion and are growing. Dude if I had the money, I'd be buying up land and animals as quickly as possible. If you love hunting and conservation as much as I do, you would be doing the same!
I certainly know a few folks in Montana, Idaho, and Wyoming that would argue with you when the conversation turns towards wolves (an indigenousbig game animal). Yep, they want fence -not to keep the wolves in. They want it to keep the wolves out! Which side of the fence is "behind"?
"Maintenance Problems"
Yes, but not always. I'veseenwerebisonhave powered through fence (this was actually how Iwas able to getmy bull bison. I shot him after he and a cohort pushed their way onto a neighboring property the day before I arrived. They did so with zero pressure from anyone. No, he did not have a tag in his ear. Yes, he was as wild and unpredictable as anything I've ever hunted. A rancher tried to use his F-350 to move the animals back where they came from. In the end, it looked like the F350- had been wrapped around a telephone pole).I've watchedelk with their pure athletic ability go under and over fences. I even seen them enlargeholes started by who knows what ( maybe bulls wanting to get in to avoid the pressure on the outside).
In African ( I know Hillbilly, you only care about America), I watched in disbelief as three eland bulls cleared a six foot fence with very little effort. Other animals move through/over the fence like it wasn't even there (e.g. Leopards. steenbok. duikers, warthogs. cheetahs, gemsbok,impala...). I know because I've seen it! There was absolutely nothing wrong with the fence. Again Hillybilly, you are making assumptions ( I still think you're an ok guy, we just see things differently). You should get out more.
Yeah, hunting is a religion...tolerance!
I'll give you one:
"if it's brown, it's down".
I've seen that concept in action back east on numerous occassions.
here's another:
"if it flies, it dies". I know...totally unrelated.
Argue your point with our American Bison, and the less than 1% that spared them.
http://www.yptenc.org.uk/docs/factsheets/animal_facts/american_bison.html
Hold on a second, bison are not big game animals. they're just docile penned raised pets.
Argue your point with our Jagaurs.
http://www.kindwoman.com/jaguar1.html
Argue your point with Florida's panthers.
http://www.kidsplanet.org/factsheets/florida_panther.html
Argue your point with Tules elk.
http://www.oaklandzoo.org/atoz/aztlelk.html
ALL of these animals were hunted to near extinction. They are slowly rebounding. A lot of their recoverycan be attributed to private land owners with high fences. Thank you Landowners (whatever percentage)! Would you like me to provide more links?
How about the true eastern US andCanada elk. Oh wait, they're gone, no point in arguing there! Seems they were wiped out as humans continued to expand. Call me stupid or something, but the last time I checked we humans just hit 6 billion and are growing. Dude if I had the money, I'd be buying up land and animals as quickly as possible. If you love hunting and conservation as much as I do, you would be doing the same!
I certainly know a few folks in Montana, Idaho, and Wyoming that would argue with you when the conversation turns towards wolves (an indigenousbig game animal). Yep, they want fence -not to keep the wolves in. They want it to keep the wolves out! Which side of the fence is "behind"?
"Maintenance Problems"
Yes, but not always. I'veseenwerebisonhave powered through fence (this was actually how Iwas able to getmy bull bison. I shot him after he and a cohort pushed their way onto a neighboring property the day before I arrived. They did so with zero pressure from anyone. No, he did not have a tag in his ear. Yes, he was as wild and unpredictable as anything I've ever hunted. A rancher tried to use his F-350 to move the animals back where they came from. In the end, it looked like the F350- had been wrapped around a telephone pole).I've watchedelk with their pure athletic ability go under and over fences. I even seen them enlargeholes started by who knows what ( maybe bulls wanting to get in to avoid the pressure on the outside).
In African ( I know Hillbilly, you only care about America), I watched in disbelief as three eland bulls cleared a six foot fence with very little effort. Other animals move through/over the fence like it wasn't even there (e.g. Leopards. steenbok. duikers, warthogs. cheetahs, gemsbok,impala...). I know because I've seen it! There was absolutely nothing wrong with the fence. Again Hillybilly, you are making assumptions ( I still think you're an ok guy, we just see things differently). You should get out more.
Yeah, hunting is a religion...tolerance!