Read this recently, do you agree?
10-28-2006, 06:07 PM
#1
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location:
Posts: 13,082
Read this recently, do you agree?
The local publication from our Conservation Department is The Conservationist. Monthly little magazine, pretty neat...but I digress.
The topic was about letting button bucks walk or shoot them. I though this made some sense, but I'm curious as to what ya'll think.
OK....basically it said to shoot all the buttons you want, because when the rut comes around, momma is gonna run him off anyway, and apparently that could be several miles away. So, if you have a relatively small property, blast away, because they won't be there after this fall anyway. It said the ones you DON'T want to shoot are the year and half olds.....spikes and basket racks. They are already established in the area and won't be leaving.....
Now, I can see if you own hundreds, or thousands of acres you might not want to shoot them. If you have control of that much land you would be shooting yourself in the foot.....BUT, for the typical guy, like me, who is competing w/ other hunters on bordering property, it made sense.
I don't want this to turn into a nasty QDM debate, though I fear it may.....I am just curious about this specifically.
The topic was about letting button bucks walk or shoot them. I though this made some sense, but I'm curious as to what ya'll think.
OK....basically it said to shoot all the buttons you want, because when the rut comes around, momma is gonna run him off anyway, and apparently that could be several miles away. So, if you have a relatively small property, blast away, because they won't be there after this fall anyway. It said the ones you DON'T want to shoot are the year and half olds.....spikes and basket racks. They are already established in the area and won't be leaving.....
Now, I can see if you own hundreds, or thousands of acres you might not want to shoot them. If you have control of that much land you would be shooting yourself in the foot.....BUT, for the typical guy, like me, who is competing w/ other hunters on bordering property, it made sense.
I don't want this to turn into a nasty QDM debate, though I fear it may.....I am just curious about this specifically.
10-28-2006, 06:10 PM
#2
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location:
Posts: 6,006
RE: Read this recently, do you agree?
Seems like a "Which came first, the chicken or the egg" deal.
Where do big bucks come from?
Button bucks.
If you shoot all your button bucks, where will the next generation of big bucks be?
In your freezer two or three seasons previously.
Granted, does run button bucks off, but I find it hard to believe they run them miles away.
Where do big bucks come from?
Button bucks.
If you shoot all your button bucks, where will the next generation of big bucks be?
In your freezer two or three seasons previously.
Granted, does run button bucks off, but I find it hard to believe they run them miles away.
10-28-2006, 06:12 PM
#3
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: YewNork
Posts: 1,794
RE: Read this recently, do you agree?
if you want to waste your tags on button bucks go ahead, but its definitley not a fact, because i saw a piebald button buck 1 year, and shot him as a 2.5 year old 1 mile away from where i oringally saw him...
plus thats the most unsportsman like thing ive ever heard, if it goes on your neighbors property it dont matter cause you cant hunt there any way, if you want to do it just so he dont get a deer and you can brag, than thats just wrong.
plus thats the most unsportsman like thing ive ever heard, if it goes on your neighbors property it dont matter cause you cant hunt there any way, if you want to do it just so he dont get a deer and you can brag, than thats just wrong.
10-28-2006, 06:21 PM
#4
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location:
Posts: 13,082
RE: Read this recently, do you agree?
Soap, while I understand your point......My neighbor's would shoot it if they had the chance......so it really wouldn't do any good to let it walk. I mean, it's a dog eat dog world out there, first come, first serve, ya know?
Dan, that's kind of what I thought as well. The article addressed this issue, but to be honest I can't recall it's point.....something to the effect of natural mortality and such anyway....Wish I could remember it...sorry. But at the same time, you could make the same argument for the doe fawns as well. Where do adult mature does come from? Doe fawns, and if you shoot all of them, there won't be a breeding doe in the woods anymore. I guess the point is, you aren't going to eliminate them all anyway, so why not have some yummy table fare.
Dan, that's kind of what I thought as well. The article addressed this issue, but to be honest I can't recall it's point.....something to the effect of natural mortality and such anyway....Wish I could remember it...sorry. But at the same time, you could make the same argument for the doe fawns as well. Where do adult mature does come from? Doe fawns, and if you shoot all of them, there won't be a breeding doe in the woods anymore. I guess the point is, you aren't going to eliminate them all anyway, so why not have some yummy table fare.
10-28-2006, 06:48 PM
#5
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: El Dorado, Arkansas
Posts: 2,174
RE: Read this recently, do you agree?
Well, first off, from my many, many years of experience and having almost a professional's level of knowledge, and just all around being of superior intelligence, I can summarize it this way.......I don't completely agree.
I have wittnessed yearling bucks, that did not get run off by does, still on my property from year to year. But yes, some will get run off. At the same time, you have to understand that your property will become the land of exile for other yearling bucks, run off from properties that are surrounding yours. So you will always have yearling bucks. Period.
Now the land I lease is a lot like the situation you have described. We have private property, leased property, and private land with homes, all around my lease. On opening day it often sounds like a war zone. The general theme of those around us is if you have a shot , then it is going down.Ground checking happens a lot down here.A lot of what gets killed is young bucks / nubbin heads. Because of that fact, there are a lot of does waiting to get bred. If you are killing slick heads, but most wind up being bucks , not does, then you will be throwing your herd out of balance in a big way. Right now we have a ratio of about 5 or 6 does to every buck. Your goal should be around 1 : 1 does : bucks, or 2 : 1 ideally. 3 : 1 is acceptable, but beyond that things start toget ugly.
You also wind up having more does available to breed, and you can multiply the number of deer on your land in a few short years. Land can only accomodate a certain number of deer with good nutrition. If you have too many deer, be they bucks or does, for your land, then the health of the entire herd suffers, and the probability of disease increases. But if you keep the herd more balanced, or even make it competitave and say 2 : 1 bucks to does ratio, then once the does are bred then that is it. A certain number of does can only put out so many fawns. This way, you can better manage the number of deer your land holds, and you can also make sure you don't run the deer on your land into starvation and disease.
So with that in mind, I say that there is nothing wrong with taking some button bucks, but your goal should more so be to take does. Mistakes can and do happen, but does have the babies, and it doesn't take a lot of does left year after year to breed, to over burden the land they are on. Thats why I also feed supplimental groceries to my deer. There are way too many for the land, and a typical bucks weight, taken at the pre rut to early rut, will be about 120 lbs. on the hoof...NOT GUTTED.
So leave the bucks for the most part, and take some does to have a better, healthier, more balanced herd.
I hope I was able to convey my thoughts to you guys effectively, without losing you. I admit , sometimes I lose myself....I try hard not to , but it happens. Feel free to disagree with me if you want, I will not take it personally, I believe we all have something to learn from everyone. You might just teach me something I did not know, and make me change my thoughts.
Good hunting and God Bless
I have wittnessed yearling bucks, that did not get run off by does, still on my property from year to year. But yes, some will get run off. At the same time, you have to understand that your property will become the land of exile for other yearling bucks, run off from properties that are surrounding yours. So you will always have yearling bucks. Period.
Now the land I lease is a lot like the situation you have described. We have private property, leased property, and private land with homes, all around my lease. On opening day it often sounds like a war zone. The general theme of those around us is if you have a shot , then it is going down.Ground checking happens a lot down here.A lot of what gets killed is young bucks / nubbin heads. Because of that fact, there are a lot of does waiting to get bred. If you are killing slick heads, but most wind up being bucks , not does, then you will be throwing your herd out of balance in a big way. Right now we have a ratio of about 5 or 6 does to every buck. Your goal should be around 1 : 1 does : bucks, or 2 : 1 ideally. 3 : 1 is acceptable, but beyond that things start toget ugly.
You also wind up having more does available to breed, and you can multiply the number of deer on your land in a few short years. Land can only accomodate a certain number of deer with good nutrition. If you have too many deer, be they bucks or does, for your land, then the health of the entire herd suffers, and the probability of disease increases. But if you keep the herd more balanced, or even make it competitave and say 2 : 1 bucks to does ratio, then once the does are bred then that is it. A certain number of does can only put out so many fawns. This way, you can better manage the number of deer your land holds, and you can also make sure you don't run the deer on your land into starvation and disease.
So with that in mind, I say that there is nothing wrong with taking some button bucks, but your goal should more so be to take does. Mistakes can and do happen, but does have the babies, and it doesn't take a lot of does left year after year to breed, to over burden the land they are on. Thats why I also feed supplimental groceries to my deer. There are way too many for the land, and a typical bucks weight, taken at the pre rut to early rut, will be about 120 lbs. on the hoof...NOT GUTTED.
So leave the bucks for the most part, and take some does to have a better, healthier, more balanced herd.
I hope I was able to convey my thoughts to you guys effectively, without losing you. I admit , sometimes I lose myself....I try hard not to , but it happens. Feel free to disagree with me if you want, I will not take it personally, I believe we all have something to learn from everyone. You might just teach me something I did not know, and make me change my thoughts.
Good hunting and God Bless
10-28-2006, 07:42 PM
#6
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 7,208
RE: Read this recently, do you agree?
If every one opened up on BB's you area going to have less bucks. Shoot momma do so she can't run off the BB. And so what if your BB ends up living 5 miles away,cause one thats 4 miles from the other direction will move in. I believe that you want all people in all areas letting BB's walk.
10-28-2006, 07:51 PM
#7
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Wilmington NC
Posts: 4,919
RE: Read this recently, do you agree?
i have a piebald three point around here now ( yall have seen the pics) well last year i ahd it on camera to and the deer never got ran off and i have also heard of bucks going over a mile or two to get to a hot doe so a number of things could make them leave and i personally would shoot em just shoot the does that woulda kicked em out
10-28-2006, 07:56 PM
#8
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Cenral Illinois
Posts: 3,180
RE: Read this recently, do you agree?
If you everyone shot all the button bucks, then there would be none to wander onto your prperty. What if the button buck you shoot is one that has been run off from a property a mile away, but is carrying genes of the next world record. With all of the does available in most areas, I would just as soon let the buttons walk. They are going to turn into a real buck, just need time, no matter whose property they go to.
10-28-2006, 07:58 PM
#9
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Norman OK USA
Posts: 3,318
RE: Read this recently, do you agree?
I think you have to look at your goals to determine whether or not that makes sense. If your goal is simply to put meat on the table, then shoot the first deer you see regardless of sex or size. Now obviously that's not any type of management.
If your goal is to increase the buck to doe ration and manage the area for more mature deer then it wouldn't make much sense to shoot buttons, regardless of whether or not they get run off. Also, whose to say that those little guys that get run off won't return to the area while chasing does in later seasons?
If your goal is to increase the buck to doe ration and manage the area for more mature deer then it wouldn't make much sense to shoot buttons, regardless of whether or not they get run off. Also, whose to say that those little guys that get run off won't return to the area while chasing does in later seasons?
