JoshKeller

as to the dryer thing - i dont think the dryer has enough heat to release the scent trapped in the molecules. I believe it takes a thousand + degrees to release the old scent.

Rob/PA Bowyer

Continue your discussion but do not bash a company. There are several that now make the carbon based clothing, discuss the clothing and technology, not the manufacturers. Thanks guys.

Scent-Lok G.Designer

First things, I appreciate all the hunters on this board and across the country. You know I would probably be doing marketing for something my wife likes if is wasn't for the great hunters we have, and also the great opportunities we have in this country. I have an awesome job with several great people surrounding me. Thanks for all the PM's I get and trust me this is but one small fraction of what I do. I don't think I could do this full time, nor could I see a fellow employee do it all the time as well.

I want to apologize for the rant in the other post as it wasn't my finest moment. I stand by what is posted for the world to read, but I shouldn't have lashed out in the manner I did. One thing that makes our assembly of hunters so great is that it spans all color, creed and income levels. With that range of being, there is bound to be differing in opinions and ideas. I should realize that. I should be more respectful of that.

I originally posted to show our guarantee. If we didn't think our products worked to the degree we say; we wouldn't offer that warranty...at all. We would take your money and run, as any type of warranty would be business suicide. However we did quite the oppisite. We are putting our necks out because we know this stuff works. Plain and simple.

Thirdly, to the science subject. Even if we do show you our testing it will do no good to many of you as you will say it is dirty science. We paid the labs. We did this or that. So you see we are pretty much in a no win situation. That is why a guarantee is probably in the long run more imprtant then testing for most of you. If you get busted, we will refund you. You are out nothing but maybe a little time.

Lastly, I have never seen scientific evidence of scent lures (particularly those of estrus does) and their effectiveness during the prerut and rut stages? Nor scientific evidence that grunting is an effective tool while hunting. Also provide scientific evidence on the effectiveness of mock scrapes. Yet almost every hunter does them and buys those products.

Thanks again for all the PM's and enjoy the outdoors! I will respond to your PM's when I find the time.

MichaelT.

First Josh, don't worry about it. But pleasse do me a favor, if you feel like someone is doing or saying something against you or something you do, please make sure it involves you.

Now, honestly, I commend you for the obvious level of your education, and I also applaud you for not arguing and instead searching for the truth...answers. In every business / industry, there are people who can shape results, figures, or stats, to reflect anything ( the conclusion )they want it to.( I am not saying anyone is doing that now in this situation )It is just a simple fact of life. It is wrong, underhanded, deceitful, and many other adjectives.... And usually as you state, the only way to find out is to study whatever it is, and find out for yourself. Just like you are trying to do. Best of luck in your endevor. As Moulder said... The truth is out there.

Next, I think we all need to let the free enterprise, Capitalistic, society we all love do it's thing, and if a groups product is bad, doesn't work, or is poor quality, it will fade away. One sure bet is that those of you who were beating up on Mr. Scent-lok, cannot prove your argument.... So why argue? What has he done to you personally? If you bought some of his merchandise and then found out something that makes you believe his product is a sham, then don't buy anymore. But for Heaven's sake.... there is no reason to make it personal. He did not make you buy it, you chose to. If you say he is misleading 'people, well prove it. You are both in the same mess, He can't prove it works, and you can't prove it doesn't. But why make it personal. We all have enough people causing trouble for us outside the hunting world, without the need for us to turn against each other.

Mr. Designer had it right when he said he is in a no win situation. Now is it of his own making? I have no idea, but I do know the Sun will come up in the morning ( God willing ) , I know I love my family, and I know that some products work as advertised , and some don't. But thats no reason to string up the guy selling it. Tell people you don't think it works, but have your facts in order. " I feel ", just doesn't cut it. Now as I said before, I do not own any. That is my choice. Do I think it works? Yes, To some extent at least. That's because I work in a Chemestry Laboratory. I understand the basic principles. But if the rest of the world wants to buy it, more power to them. I wish I had invented it. But like I said, over and over, there is no resaon to get personal.

And finally, his analogy about the use of scents and attractants hit the nail on the head. Would the buck you just killed, the big 12 point, have come down that trail anyway if you had not put out the scent. No one knows and no one ever will. Besides, it's a moot point. Either way you killed the buck.

It's obvious that tons of people believe in it. And since it is their money, they can buy it. If it makes them more confident, great. It does not hurt me one bit. So more power to them. I will wish them the best luck in the world. But you will never be able to single out one thing that allowed you to kill that buck. It's because everything was working together at the right time, and you did your part with the Gun, Bow, Muzzleloader, sling shot or whatever.

Since joining this site, I have been helped by some of the nicest people, but I have to say that those seven pages of posts, for the most part, left the worst taste in my mouth.It was like a feeding frenzy of rabid animals.

I hope and pray that the people here will calm down and let this die. If you really want to persue it, then get your facts, not conjecture, and talk to them, someone, anyone. I'll listen to what you have to say. But we really shouldn't be fighting amongst ourselves like that. In the mean time if you like it, buy it, if you don't , well don't kill the people who do.

Sorry for being so long winded. God Bless everyone. Good Hunting.

atlasman

I didn't see anyone tell someone else what to wear..............they just gave factual reasons why they feel a certain product is a waste of money. No different then if someone asked about the Deer View Mirror..........I'm sure plenty of people would say why they think it's a waste of money and would never buy it. Happens here all the time with products of all sorts.

atlasman

You have it quite backwards. It is the undeniable laws of science (to those who actually know them) that ARE the proof that carbon suits don't and CAN'T work the way they claim.

atlasman

I don't know what job you have at that company but if you are a chemist then you KNOW the carbon suit claims are bogus. If you are not a chemist then go find one at work and he will fill you in.

atlasman

That is completely rediculous and NO scientist would EVER make such a statement. Research and data are all a scientist has to prove their claims. The data gets peer reviewed and if the proper procedures were followed and there is no obvious bias.........and the scientific method is intact then the data gets published and stands on it's own merit.

In the world of science you can SAY whatever you want........and no one cares.............until you prove it. If you cannot prove it then your statements are useless.

That is the beauty of opening your data to the public........because if you did not practice "dirty science" or pay the labs (bias) then you can sit back and grin while all your detractors would be proven wrong. ANY company that had data in it's posession that proved all it's advertising claims would be posted it in EVERY magazine out there and shouting it from the hilltops.

The flip side of that is exposing data that does not pass the bogus test. Then you open yourself up to fraud claims.




None of those products make claims contrary to proven scientific laws............and many of them get grilled as well. Especially scents.

nodog

Keep up the good work Atlasman

In the mean time here's some science. It's a long article, filled with info, much I hadn't read before. I already wear several hats and don't care to wear a chemistry one at this time. Maybe someday. It would have to be for more than proving the effectivness of clothes though, for or against as much fun as that would be.

More info than I have ever seen Scentlok put out. Don't know why Scent-lok G Designer didn't refernce it. Would have answered many questions.

http://www.huntingnet.com/articles/articles.aspx?articles_id=380

MichaelT.

Atlasman,

I understand what you are saying, but allow me to explain why I referenced His statement about the science subject and opening their testing. I could absolutely be wrong about this, but I took that statement as a point towards those seven pages in the other post. I believed he was saying that with the mob type mentality that was going on towards the end, that nothing at that time would have sufficed. I also can say I have seen that happen before. People get upset, start throwing words around, and then if you give them your facts, they say it's made up, or it's biased, you must have paid a lot of money for that study. Now he may have meant something else, but thats the way I saw it. And I don't think he was too far off base. I feel it is always better to stop things when they become heated, and go let heads cool down, then come back together and "TALK" sensibly. But as I said all along. Noone is forced to buy his product. If you don't want it, don't buy it. But leave the people who do alone. It's their money to do as they wish.

And yes I am a Chemist. Wheather I believe they work or not is irrelevant. And finally I still think that stuff with the fart and carbon can only hold so much was funny.

Good luck, Good hunting, and God Bless.