GMMAT

My question is this…..

If the buck/doe ratio is a skewed as some would have us to believe……why wouldn’t our NCWRC reduce the number of bucks we’re allowed to take…..OR ….implement the rule that a lot of states have that woud require each hunter to harvest a doe before qualifying for an antlered harvest? In NC, last year.....the ratio of harvest was 2.4/1 (bucks to does).

I know they have their reasons……but it would seem that we need to do something to get the numbers more on a 50/50 basis. WHY??? I’m just thinking out loud….and I am NOT a wildlife expert…..but….let’s just say…on average….that each doe bears one fawn. It would make sense that 50% of those fawns reared would be bucks. If the harvest ratio was 50/50…..wouldn’t this solve the problem?

I know it looks like I’m suggesting a solution to the “reported” lack of bucks (and this could hold true for ANY state that’s claiming low buck/doe ratios), but I’m really making a hypothetical (although the harvest ratio is real) to see what the REAL answer is to seeing more bucks.

Competition for does is a good thing!

Jeff

GMMAT

Nobody???

I'm just wondering why each state wouldn't strive for a 1/1 ratio???

Is there a scientific reason why we shouldn't all strive for this?

jeff

njbuck22

I dont know the answer, but i know that here in NJ, depending on the area of the state you are in, you have to kill a doe first before you can kill your buck. We have fairly liberal limits, i have to check the book, but last year we could take 3 bucks with bow, one in fall bow, one in permit bow and one in winter bow, then 1 with a muzzleloader and 2 with a shotgun, so 6 total. I know most people dont take that many, but some do. We are also allowed to take an unlimited number of doe in most of the state, atleast where i hunt. If iremember correctly i think iread somewhere the NJ had the highest doe taken for every buck in the country or something like that. I know that where i hunt, most of the spots have an extremely high doe to buck ration, something like 5-6 does to bucks, and i think its cause no one wants to take the does and since most of my hunting is in small town neighborhoods, not many people are hunting, so its tough to change that. Maybe this fall will be different, but i dont know why a state wouldnt want a 1:1 ratio, it would certainly help the hunting.

rybohunter

Becuase hunters like to see deer. Many hunters also like to mostly only shoot bucks. People would FLIP OUT if they weren't allowed to shoot as many bucks, and could only shoot does. Just look at PA(since I live here) Buck to doe ratio WAY out of whack, PGC tries to implement program to let more bucks live and kill off more does, hunters in the state almost riot. Sad but true.

DougE

The b/d ratio in Pa was never out of wack.Even before AR and HR tit was never that bad.You have to remember,we'd been killing more antlerless than antlered deer for about 20 years.What do you think out b/d ration was prior to AR?

GMMAT

I guess my question (among others) is.....who gives a #^$& if the hunters riot? I'm not sure the hunters are consulted when seasons/bag limits are set (they may be...I don't know). Isn't this pure science?

I, for one, wouldn't mind seeing a rule that FORCED hunters to take a doe before harvesting a buck. This would CERTAINLY affect commercial hunting (but if you're coming to NC to hunt our deer.....you probably shopped and are coming here for the PRICE).

It just seems that a 1/1 ratio should be something that all states should strive for. If the harvest rate is off (NOT 1/1).....wouldn't it be a no-brainer to try to implement rules that would get it closer?

Again.....there's LIKELY (lol) a reason.....I just haven't heard it.

Jeff

Sport 2

I beleive there are several reasons. I also hunt in PA and personally agree with the AR. And sinse they have been imposed I have seen an improvement with the buck to doe ratio. But unfortnuately, I have not noticed a great improvement in big bucks. I think this is partailly due to juniors and seniors being able to shoot any size buck, and the idiots that shoot smaller bucks and let them lay. I'm also sure that there are more big bucks out there. They are still just very elusive.
I agree that many hunters will flip out if the were to impose more strict ARs or if they forced you to shoot a doe first. An I believe that more female fawns are born each spring that bucks, but I'm not sure.
Its just a hard thing to beat. Years of deer camps bragging about shooting a buck (even if small) makes it hard for some to shoot a doe and be just as proud. Its just ingrained in us that bucks are better than does. when in reality an old doe can be just as wise as a buck.

kevin1

SB , I've asked one of our state's deer biologists that very question . His reply was that the only place you'll ever see a 1:1 ratio is a canned ranch because there is no practical way to achieve it in a wild herd , and no biological necessity for doing so . The average ratio at birth is around 1:1 , but various mortality factors reduce the number of bucks more than the does as a matter of course . He said this would happen whether we hunted them or not . So unless you buy a tract of very rich land and fence it in and stock it you'll never see 1:1 in your lifetime .

DougE

You'll also never see a ratio worse than 1/3 unless you don't shoot any deer.In fact,it's impossible for it to be any worse than 1/5.Even then,you'd have to kill every single antlered bucks and never kill a doe.that's simply impossible.

Lets look at a simple example using Pa.In 2003 the pre-season herd was estimated at 1.37 million animals.That fall we killed over 203,000 antlered deer.lets assume a 1/5 ratio(adult of course) and we'll also assume that we killed every single legal buck out there,which didn't happen.That would give us1,015,000 adult preseason doe.Since our average fawn recruitment rate was about 1.1 fawns/doe,we would have 1,116,500 fawns.That would give us a total preseason herd of 2,334,500 deer.The reality is,hunters perception is much different than whatis actually out there,especially once you take the fawns out of the equation.

My personal obsevations are the exact opposite of what most people claim.I live in an area of Pa that is mostly public land and hunted heavily.Last year I captured 3 bucks for every doe on the two trail cams that I had out all summer.Two weeks ago i went spotting and saw 37 bucks and 8 adult doe.

Sport 2

DougE:
What part of PA are you talking about?????? I'll be there Sept 30th. J/k
But Really what part of the state is that. I definately see more doe than bucks, however with the new ARs its getting better. Its probably about 2 or 3 to 1. But its still rare to see a big buck.