Similar to WHA.
07-26-2006, 03:22 PM
#21
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Jackson, Missouri
Posts: 7,051
RE: Similar to WHA.
Was just giving this a bit of thought while cruising around on my lawn letting my tractor cut some grass for me... (just a very small bit; I was trying to relax... 
)
I think the reason I don't view it in the same light is that the other enterprise you pointed out, Big Bulls, (Campbell's, was it?) doesn't purport to speak for the industry and to attempt to portray itself to the masses as representative of hunting. That's one of the biggest travesties of that fiasco called the WHA, and why it would allow anti-hunting sentiment to take an even stronger hold.
One portrays itself as hunting, when it's not. The other is merely a competition revolving around hunting. Therein lies the difference.
)I think the reason I don't view it in the same light is that the other enterprise you pointed out, Big Bulls, (Campbell's, was it?) doesn't purport to speak for the industry and to attempt to portray itself to the masses as representative of hunting. That's one of the biggest travesties of that fiasco called the WHA, and why it would allow anti-hunting sentiment to take an even stronger hold.
One portrays itself as hunting, when it's not. The other is merely a competition revolving around hunting. Therein lies the difference.
07-26-2006, 03:25 PM
#22
Fork Horn
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Houston, Tx
Posts: 457
RE: Similar to WHA.
Hunting is the putting of food on the table.... Do predators hunt for the fun of it? If you're darting deer to put them to sleep to take a picture, it's not hunting. CC is free-ranging AND fair-chase and is by all definitions, HUNTING. The WHA is not.CC is the judging of a teams ability to put a trophy deer HUNTon camera.
Why does Hunting warrant comparison with NASCAR? Or BassMasters for that matter? Are you telling me that a deer is no more a cognizant animal than a fish, or no more elusive a goal than driving 500 times around a circle?
If you dont see the difference now, you never will. You are the blind and ignorant one. You wake up and pull your head out of..... .... the dirt...(see, I can play word games too!)
VERY well put Greg...
Why does Hunting warrant comparison with NASCAR? Or BassMasters for that matter? Are you telling me that a deer is no more a cognizant animal than a fish, or no more elusive a goal than driving 500 times around a circle?
If you dont see the difference now, you never will. You are the blind and ignorant one. You wake up and pull your head out of..... .... the dirt...(see, I can play word games too!)
VERY well put Greg...
07-26-2006, 09:24 PM
#23
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 83
RE: Similar to WHA.
Hunting-
n. [ol][*] The activity or sport of pursuing game. [/ol] Hmm....No where does it mention 'putting food on the table' in that definition... Can everyone just drop these STUPID attempts to reason with Campbells and not the WHA.
No wonder people think the hunting community is 'ignant'
n. [ol][*] The activity or sport of pursuing game. [/ol] Hmm....No where does it mention 'putting food on the table' in that definition... Can everyone just drop these STUPID attempts to reason with Campbells and not the WHA.
No wonder people think the hunting community is 'ignant'
07-26-2006, 09:27 PM
#24
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location:
Posts: 13,082
RE: Similar to WHA.
or just plain refuses to see that the "WHA" already exists, justunder other names.
It comes down to a question of ethics. Something can be perfectly legal, but not ethical at all. There is no rule that says I can't shoot a turkey out of the roost, as long as it is legal shooting time, but it's considered unethical. QDM isn't unethical, it's just not totally honest. WHA IMO is unethical. God put these critters on earth for us to hunt and EAT, not torture.
07-27-2006, 08:36 AM
#26
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Jackson, Missouri
Posts: 7,051
RE: Similar to WHA.
Can everyone just drop these STUPID attempts to reason with Campbells and not the WHA.
07-27-2006, 09:34 AM
#28
Spike
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Illinois
Posts: 74
RE: Similar to WHA.
I new posting to these forums, and learned much about the WHA through reading posts here. I continually see posts relating the WHA to Bassmasters, or High Fence (enclosure) hunting. While I am clear in my opposition to the WHA it has nothing to do with them hunting behind a fence, although I do not agree with that form of hunting either.
The simple analogy being made between tournament fishing and hunting is ridiculous! I can only assume many hunters are also fishermen (as am I), so I would ask - WHEN WAS THE LAST TIME YOU RIPPED YOUR BAIT/LURE OUT OF THE WATER BECAUSE THE FISH ABOUT TO BITE IT WASN'T THE TROPHY YOU WANTED??? There is nothing about fishing that is HUNTING! Hunting is the selective decision to harvest an animal in the cleanest most humane manner possible! (at least it should be).
If hunting was fishing the WHA would be the closest you could get to it. Basically trank every animal you can and upon closer inspection determine if its the one you want to keep - then kill it!
What concerns me the most is that you cannot provide people an indiscriminat, no-consequencemeans by which to drop an animal which could be worth potentially thousands of $ and tell me that they are going to be concerned with how they do it. When you dart an animal with drugs, you need only hit the animal, where you hit it - not that important. So don't think for a sec we won't see some very bad representative shots being taken (unless edited out), and what does that do for our sport. Young hunters learn from watching TV and they see a guy take a head-on shot, or poor angle shot - they think Hmmmm, guess thats a good shot!
The fact is there are many reasons to dislike what the WHA represents, but ultimately you can not make an argument for the WHA using tournament fishing as a representation. That dog just won't hunt!
While you could argue about Campbell's or Drury's shows being similar, those shows still represent the selective harvest aspect, andthe Drurysrip people for taking questionable shots. And while I have not seen Campbells, Drury's show represents fair chase hunts, so I have no problem with their promotion of products and methods. If they were a high fence enclosed hunt I just wouldn't watch it.
You can't vote private enterprise up or down - you do it with your financial support. When enough public opinion hits the wallets of private enterprise - they listen, which is obviously what has happened to the sponsors of the WHA.
While there are a number of issues raisedin thisthread - all of which are debatable in their own rights - I have yet to see a post which makes a valid point supporting the WHA. If the WHA was a show where the contestants were required to make a clean killing shot on a broadside or quartering away animal using acceptable and LEGAL hunting means I don't think I would have a problem with it. But if it was done in a high fence environment, I still wouldn't watch it.
The simple analogy being made between tournament fishing and hunting is ridiculous! I can only assume many hunters are also fishermen (as am I), so I would ask - WHEN WAS THE LAST TIME YOU RIPPED YOUR BAIT/LURE OUT OF THE WATER BECAUSE THE FISH ABOUT TO BITE IT WASN'T THE TROPHY YOU WANTED??? There is nothing about fishing that is HUNTING! Hunting is the selective decision to harvest an animal in the cleanest most humane manner possible! (at least it should be).
If hunting was fishing the WHA would be the closest you could get to it. Basically trank every animal you can and upon closer inspection determine if its the one you want to keep - then kill it!
What concerns me the most is that you cannot provide people an indiscriminat, no-consequencemeans by which to drop an animal which could be worth potentially thousands of $ and tell me that they are going to be concerned with how they do it. When you dart an animal with drugs, you need only hit the animal, where you hit it - not that important. So don't think for a sec we won't see some very bad representative shots being taken (unless edited out), and what does that do for our sport. Young hunters learn from watching TV and they see a guy take a head-on shot, or poor angle shot - they think Hmmmm, guess thats a good shot!
The fact is there are many reasons to dislike what the WHA represents, but ultimately you can not make an argument for the WHA using tournament fishing as a representation. That dog just won't hunt!
While you could argue about Campbell's or Drury's shows being similar, those shows still represent the selective harvest aspect, andthe Drurysrip people for taking questionable shots. And while I have not seen Campbells, Drury's show represents fair chase hunts, so I have no problem with their promotion of products and methods. If they were a high fence enclosed hunt I just wouldn't watch it.
You can't vote private enterprise up or down - you do it with your financial support. When enough public opinion hits the wallets of private enterprise - they listen, which is obviously what has happened to the sponsors of the WHA.
While there are a number of issues raisedin thisthread - all of which are debatable in their own rights - I have yet to see a post which makes a valid point supporting the WHA. If the WHA was a show where the contestants were required to make a clean killing shot on a broadside or quartering away animal using acceptable and LEGAL hunting means I don't think I would have a problem with it. But if it was done in a high fence environment, I still wouldn't watch it.
07-27-2006, 01:21 PM
#29
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location:
Posts: 115
RE: Similar to WHA.
First of all, the Campbell Outdoor Challenge is a filming competition not a hunting competition. Last year, the first and second place prizes were won by hunter/cameramen teams who had successfully harvested two does on film. The team that manged to get the only successful buck harvest on film actually took third. In this competition, the cameraman has the ability to make a significant amount more points than the hunter can possibly make. Also, the $13,000 in prizes is split among the top three teams in the competition. With a $3,750.oo entry fee, the best anyone can hope for, is to actually be able to pay for their trip, and therefore, get a free hunt out of the deal.
Now, my biggest problem with the WHA is the fact that ALL of the "hunting" is going to have to be in enclosures. Animals injected with the Xylazine/Telazol mixture are not safe for human consumption for at least thirty days.This makesfree range "hunting" impossible as you could not be sure that the drugged animal would not be legally harvested by another hunter in the area. The drugs that are used are prohibited for unlicensed individuals to use and therefore, the entire operation is going to have to be supervised by a veterinarian. I don't know about you guys, but I've been hunting since I was eight years old and have never once had my own vet accompany me on one of my hunts. Maybe you have. These things in my mind completely separate the WHA's way of "hunting" completely separate from the hunting thatwe have all grown up doing. If the WHA would promote their "sport" as something else other that hunting, it would not bother me as much as it does. Simply put, it's nothing like real-world hunting.
As far as your comparison of this with Bassmasters, I do understand your point. However, to me, the fact that Bassmasters tournaments are held on public water, where every Tom, Dick, and Harry can, and do fish makes them a legitimate challenge. The best of the best are going to come out on top, consistently catching more and bigger fish than the average person, though they have no real advantage over them, except experience, patience, and the drive to be there. The darting of pen raised deer in small enclosures is not something that everybody has access to. The deer are not pressured and, truth be known, in many cases, will probably tame, at least to some extent. This is not the hunting that everyone has access to and will give extremely unrealistic expectations of hunting to newcomers. And yes, I realize that the majority of other hunting shows now on the air are filmed in enclosures and are not realistic. I don't like them either.
Now, my biggest problem with the WHA is the fact that ALL of the "hunting" is going to have to be in enclosures. Animals injected with the Xylazine/Telazol mixture are not safe for human consumption for at least thirty days.This makesfree range "hunting" impossible as you could not be sure that the drugged animal would not be legally harvested by another hunter in the area. The drugs that are used are prohibited for unlicensed individuals to use and therefore, the entire operation is going to have to be supervised by a veterinarian. I don't know about you guys, but I've been hunting since I was eight years old and have never once had my own vet accompany me on one of my hunts. Maybe you have. These things in my mind completely separate the WHA's way of "hunting" completely separate from the hunting thatwe have all grown up doing. If the WHA would promote their "sport" as something else other that hunting, it would not bother me as much as it does. Simply put, it's nothing like real-world hunting.
As far as your comparison of this with Bassmasters, I do understand your point. However, to me, the fact that Bassmasters tournaments are held on public water, where every Tom, Dick, and Harry can, and do fish makes them a legitimate challenge. The best of the best are going to come out on top, consistently catching more and bigger fish than the average person, though they have no real advantage over them, except experience, patience, and the drive to be there. The darting of pen raised deer in small enclosures is not something that everybody has access to. The deer are not pressured and, truth be known, in many cases, will probably tame, at least to some extent. This is not the hunting that everyone has access to and will give extremely unrealistic expectations of hunting to newcomers. And yes, I realize that the majority of other hunting shows now on the air are filmed in enclosures and are not realistic. I don't like them either.
07-27-2006, 01:30 PM
#30
Super Moderator
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Central Utah
Posts: 4,815
RE: Similar to WHA.
HuntingNet sponsored a team for one of Campbell's Outdoor Challenges.
This particular Challenge was more like fishing than deer hunting.
http://www.huntingnet.com/fieldjournal/fieldjournal_detail.aspx?nID=419
This particular Challenge was more like fishing than deer hunting.
http://www.huntingnet.com/fieldjournal/fieldjournal_detail.aspx?nID=419