GregH

QAM is a product of QDM.

QDM = bigger , healthier deer, better buck/ doe ratios, better carrying capacity of the land,morecompetition between bucks, better genitics, bigger antlers, better hunting and more fun = GOOD

rybohunter

How can you disagree that age is not the #1 factor for getting large bucks? I don't care what kind of feed, and genetics you have, a buckWILL grow larger the older he gets until he passes his prime.

buttonbuckmaster

I like the idea of seeing, and hopefully killing better bucks. I let some bucks walk, usually spikes, forks, and small basket racks. This year, I didn't, due to a very limited time in the field. I have been passing small deer for the past 3 years and yes, we are seeing increases in the size of the deer on our property. But that being said, we are also getting more deer that are nocturnal, so we are .....more or less...getting "trophy" deer that are too smart to kill. Am I the only one that has noticed this happening...more big buck sign.....but no increase in the amount of trophy deer taken?

I may have to call in a pro to help me out with my big bucks lol....I can't kill them [&:]

BigJ71

I disagree because, like I said there are so many other factors involved as to why a buck (or any other deer) doesn't get older.Yes many are killed by hunters, but don'tmore deer die every year from otherthings? there is starvation, road kills, predator kills, disease etc... Add all that up, then with the ones that do survive, not all have the genetic structure and even if they do they may not have the food togrow P&Y racks.

One only needs to look at this forum at all of the mature deer that have been killed and see that only a handfull of them are P&Y caliber bucks...why is that? They are mature deer that are being taken aren't they?

So to say the absolute #1 reason why a buck doesn't grow to be a P&Y buck is because of being killed at a younger age to me is not correct.

This is just another ploy to hide QAM behind QDM

BigJ71

While it would be nice for every deer herd in the country to have a diverse age structure for both it's bucks and does, I don't think that it is necessary in order to have a healthy herd. This isthekey element of how QAM people can do their work in the name of QDM. They will keep telling you it HAS to be that way or your herd will suffer.

The funny thing is MOST of the people who let these smaller bucks walk right by them and say "I did it because I pratice QDM" most likely have NO IDEA what the state of the herd in their area is! For all they know they could be passing on a deer that very well could have been killed and no harm would have come to the herd because of it.

If you let it walk because you want to shoot a bigger deer that's fine, I have no problem with that. I did that this year because of the contest. I ended up killing a small 8-point with a funky rack because I thought (and after killing it was right to think that way) it would have given him problems. If not I would have passed on him as well.

Just don't do it and say it was because of QDM. Now before those who are indeed performing QDM chime in I did say MOST. There are those who indeed do know the state of health their herd is in and are doing something about it andI applaud you. However once the ratios are balanced and the herd is healthy,and you still only kill older bucks or "inferior/cull" bucks because of their racks, then you have crossed over to QAM

ragin cajun

When the herd is balanced, why wouldn't you hold out for a mature buck when we have but one buck tag per year? QDM stewards would then ensure they strive to harvest the proper amount of mature doe(s) if needed to offset their buck. What's with the conspiracy theories between QDM and QAM? You seem angry.

shed33

Guys what do we all consider a mature buck?

3.5?
4.5?

A buck doesn't reach his antler potential until he is 5-7 years old....

Most bucks in my area.. public lands, forest land, if they reach 5, they will honestly pack a 140 class gross 4x4 rack...5x5's 150 class gross rack.. some of course with poor genetics won't but if I can I would like to discuss this a bit.. IN all of my years hunting here..I rarely see a scrubby looking deer.. lots of nice 1.5 year old 4x4s and 2.5 year old 5x5s.....You all have me thinking about why my home state produces some nice bucks even though we have tons of public land, and plenty of rifle hunting pressure...

First off..the least of a deers worry here are humans. Wolves, Mountain lions and other predators get after them pretty hard and we have a very healthy population of all of the above predators..Cold winters too..at times..

1. Carrying capacity. Here we are fortunate to have THOUSANDS upon THOUSANDS of acres of logging areasand replanting. The replants..or plantations make for awesome food sources for the critters. These quality logging practices here actually..equate to food plots. Different from a conventional food plot in that they are not planted in Biologic or whatever, yet they create almost every type of browse you can imagine..along with grasses, forbs etc...

2. Deer here have big country to hide in..theyget a chancelive to an old age, even with all thehunters and predators.

3. Between road kills, ironically mostly does get road killed..I asked a local state highway guy once and he said hecleans up20 doe to every buck he finds roadkilled and he said most of the buck roadkills are baby bucks or younger bucks..now and then they will find a hammer buck dead and its usually during the rut...this road kill coupled with predation seems to in my eyes...keep ourbuck to do ratio is pretty darned stable. The last local Biologist I talked to said it was about 3 or 4to 1...not bad for public lands..Place I hunt I see more bucks than does a lot of times..then again I am scouting out buck hangouts..if I hung around the doe core areas more I would see many more does..so this is probably more to to scouting than anything..

4. I believe the cold northern winters force the MOST FAVORABLE genes to be passed on to the next generations...I witnessbig body sized bucks and big does..that reach 3.5 and older..many 200+lbbucks and does in the 150s...live weight..Not bad for forest country habitat.. where I currently live and hunt now that I moved, I am seeing bigger body sizes..I believe it's because of the added in agriculture, more private lands...and big forest country land backing it all for cover..Many hunters here too look for at least a 2.5 or 3.5 year old buck and pass up the young bucks..its kind of second nature here because we all know there are good bucks around if we wait it out...many local rifle hunters adhere to this philosophy..as well..due to the local big buck contests...which are very popular..

All this to say.. I feel with the logging and habitat enhancement that goes along with the logging... the big country..plenty of room to roam and hide..carrying capacities that never seem to get over loaded and add in predation, hunting and road kills..tough winters, all seem to keep the numbers in check.. we have a pretty healthy herd... by coincidence I feel..... is this partiallyqdm..???? at work without the area even knowing it..??? Help me out here..

Troy

BigJ71

I probably would hold out for a bigger more mature buck, but I don't HAVE to and I wouldn't do it in the name of QDM.

No conspiracy theories here, I'm just exercising peoples brains.

You know ragin.......your not the first person to say I seemed angry here,(not this thread but others) I'm not angry at all. Ithink I'm comming across wrong.I need to work on that.

BigJ71

I didn't want to copy the whole post but I agree with you and I think you are right on.

I never claimed to have all of the answers, I was just noticing that some people were using the term QDM as a reason to grow monster P&Y bucks. Again, not that it's bad, it's just two different things.

ragin cajun

You're all right Big! I find it's very hard to express true emotion as well as interpret it from others in a format such as this or email. When you can't see someone's face...it's hard to tell sometimes.