Arthur P

Always passthroughs with aluminum and no passthroughs with carbon. Simple enough. Just my opinion, you understand, but I think it's probably because those arrows are so much lighter than the aluminums you were using. I am very much of the opinion that, while guys using high performance bowsthat put out plenty of KE can get good results with light arrows, when you go downthe scale in draw weight and KE, then arrow weight gets very critical.

If you like the durability and small diameter of carbon arrows, I suggest trying Carbon Express Terminator Selects. They're fiberglass/carbon composite arrows andhave enough heft to carry more energy and momentum downrange for penetration. It takes them a fraction of a second more time to get there and trajectory isn't as flat,but they hit a lot harder than straight carbons. Comparable to aluminum, in that regard.

Rich Baker

55# draw weight
pse carbon force 300 arrows
wasp 100g hammer sst broadheads
Thats your problem, You are too light. 10gr per pound of draw weight.Id put surgical tubeing inside your arrows and move up to a thunderhead 125, or a magnus 125 two blade. Lite arrows fly nice at the range but slow way down when they hit bone. they also have brass inserts for your arrows two. I like Aluminum arrows for hunting and my boy is a carbon junky. it really doesn't matter but the weight does.

nopardaid

I have heard of 5 and 6 GP lb, but never 10. My friend got an easy pass thru, going through 1 rib on each side. He shoots 65lb BUCK, 25inch arrows that weigh 10GPI with 100gr Rocket Ultimate Steel.
His set up paper tuned excellent as well at 6 and 12 feet, deer ran in a circle about a total of 100 yds, crashing into everything in its path. It probably would not have gone that far but he hit it high on the double lungs.
I forgot which book I saw it in but there was a picture of a 500gr arrow and something like a 300gr arrow shot into different targets. the 300gr one was obviously chronographed much faster and only penetrated an inch or so LESS than the really heavy set up. I will try to find a picture of this.

****UPDATE**** Do not do a google search for arrow penetration images!!!

Paul L Mohr

What is your draw length out of curiousity?

And I agree with Arthur, heavier arrows may help some.

And paper tunining really doesn't mean much. The important thing is how do they fly with the fixed blades on them. Like said, improper arrow flight can suck a lot of energy out of the arrow.

And if you didn't recover the deer there is really no way to know for sure where you hit it. Just where you "think" you hit. It is pretty common for people to think they put a good shot on a deer only to discover it was not that great. Not slamming you or anything, just telling you how things are sometimes. It all happens so fast it is hard to be really sure most of the time.

My advice is if you are not happy with this set up try something different like a different broad head or arrow. Or go back to what you were using before. Just make sure they are tuned with the broad heads on.

And when you said it was tuned, was it tuned with the new arrows or the aluminums? You cannot just switch arrows and expect things to be the same. It is not unusual to have to re-tune the bow for those arrows.

Paul

Rising Sun Outdoors

Personally, I wouldn't recommend a expandable with anything less than 60# bow wt.
I recommend a cut on contact broadhead, and perfer the Magnus 4 blade Stinger, for your set up.
We are using the Stingers, (Me, Wife and 9 yr old Son)we have had no problems with penatration.

I'd be inclinded to believe that the arrow, after impact,is loosinga lot of energy and just can't "punch" through with the mechanicals.
Try a cut on contact and let us knowhow that works!

recurver67

I don't think cut on contact is your answer.I think total arrow weight is.I wouldn't use a mech broardhead for anything.I had the same problem and used a cut on contact head with no results.With the same arrow and a muzzy head the arrow stuck in the ground after a pass-through.I would try a little heavier arrow first. IMHO

Bob H in NH

First step is to make sure the bow is tuned, if the arrow isn't flying right you won't penetrate. A couple of simple tests:

- shoot a BH anda fp of the same weight, shoot them from 30+ yards. Do they hit close to each other?

- Hang a string down your target. Start at 10 yards shoot at the top of the string. Now back up to 20, 30, 40, .... AIM WITH THE SAME PIN EVERY TIME. Are your arrows hitting verticle or are they moving over one way or the other (or both).

- Put the arrow BH tip on a table and spin it. Does either the BH or the nock wobble at all? Shouldn't

Ifany of these tests fail, then you have an out of tune bow. A 55 lb draw bow should have no problem getting through a deer. Baby-G isa "hard" cam so you might also want to check the spine of the arrow (I don't know anythign about your arrows to tell if you are close on spine).

--Bob

Arthur P

Haven't been bowhunting long, have you, nopardaid?

10 grains per pound was considered pretty much standard until people started hunting with their IBO target rigs. Now, it's been going on so long thateverybody thinks 5-6 grains per pound is what you're supposed to do. You can get by with it, as long as you're putting out a lot of KE, but KEalone is not the reason.

A 350 gn arrow traveling at 300 fps, with 70 ft lbs of KE,will penetrate like a 700 gn arrow at 150 fps and only 35 ft lbs. The reason is both arrows have equal momentum. The lower you go on KE, the higher you need to go on arrow weight. It increases the momentum to make up for the lower KE. Ramp up that 700 gn arrow to 70 ft lbs @ 212 fps, and the momentum goes so high there hasn't been a deer made that's tough enough to stop it. Even a moose would beput hard to it to stop that arrow.

Itruly believeshooting a 5-6 grains per pound arrow with low KE - like under 50 ftlbs -won't RELIABLY get the job done for hunting, especially if bone is hit. Has someone done it with that kind of setup? I'm sure they have. I'm sure somebody, somewhere has even gotten a complete passthru with such a setup. Some people try to ride a skateboard down a handrail too, but watched the videos of themthem wrecking out. Looks like it hurts, so I know it's something I don't want to do.

Likewise, I've watched video of people shooting light carbon arrows and, more often than not, they do not get a complete passthru. One deer hunting video I've seen has 10 different bow kills. Only one guy out of the bunchgot a passthru and he was the one shooting aluminum. With cut on contact heads too (looked like Magnus II).

I've also seen some so-called 'penetration tests' like you describe, usually published by folks that make money from selling carbon arrows. Often the heavier arrow is a fat aluminum arrow and the light one is a skinny carbon, shooting into high density foam. The aluminum has a lot more surface area, and the target stops it easier. More surface area means more friction, and foam targets stop arrows by friction. I believe that the heavier arrow would beat the snot out of the light one if both were set up with identical broadheads and shot into ballistic gelatin, but I've not seen or heard of anyone doing that test.

In other words, they stack the deck to makethe performance of their products look a lot better than it actually is, in comparison to the competition. Standard marketing practice. It's very transparent when you think it through, but most people don't do that. They're easily impressed, so they buy the scam and the product. Like I said,bowhunters can get away with it if they're shooting enough bow but, people who don't, theywind up having problems.

One reason I recommended the CX Terminators is they have the small diameter like ICS carbons, but have the weight of aluminum. IMO, that's the best of both worlds. Lower surface area with more momentum, and a couple of ft lbs more KE from the bow. And the arrow with higher momentum carries it's KE further downrange than light ones do, and it's how much KE the arrow arrives with at the animal that really matters.