compounds
09-03-2005, 09:39 AM
#11
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Nekoosa Wi USA
Posts: 6,066
RE: compounds
I personally dont care what anyone shoots, hell, a person could shoot a ruberband on a stick for allI care, its a bow if he/she wants it to be and no matter what kind of bow it is, archery takes skill that not everyone in the world has, its an art form anda talent that alot of us should be greatful to have. Good luck to everyone this season.
09-03-2005, 09:43 AM
#12
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Inverness, MS
Posts: 3,982
RE: compounds
I know what you mean....... The very first 3D shoot that I took my longbow to I got hassled from the get go..... "You aren't going to hunt with that are you?" "Man, you better usea REAL sharp broadhead with that thing!"
I just shrugged it off........ I'm a bowhunter first.....
I just shrugged it off........ I'm a bowhunter first.....
09-03-2005, 10:06 AM
#13
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 9,175
RE: compounds
There is a general pessimistic attitude that manufacturers of compounds and all those accessories have taken great pains to develop and promote over the past 30 years. They've been wildly successful at it.
Walk into a shop and read the banners across the packaging. Read the magazine ads. Watch the ads on the hunting shows. It's all aimed directly at the pessimist. How effective it is depends entirely on how much of a pessimist you are.
You are absolutely convinced you cannot rely on your abilities to keep the wind in your face while you're hunting, so you go out and buy scent blocking clothes, lure scents, sex scents, scent bombs, scent free body scrubs/sprays/ointments/unguents... When all you've got to do is exercise reasonable hygiene and keep the wind in your face.
You're absolutely convinced that you cannot hold a bowstring in your fingers and get a clean release, so you go out and spend megabucks to buy a mechanical device to do what, with a little practice, your fingers will do for free.
You're absolutely convinced you cannot learn your arrows' trajectory, so you go out and buy bow sights to keep trajectory reference points (and face it, that's all a bow sight is - elevation reference). Now that you've got a bow sight - HORRORS! You've got to know exactly what the distance is to that target AND know how to split the gaps between your pins! Crap! Too much to keep track of! So you have to have lighter arrows/faster bow in order to reduce the amount of error...... When all you had to do is learn your arrow's trajectory at different distances and allow that marvelous computer between your ears to do the work.
It's about being self reliant vs enslavement to mechanical devices.
What do you do when you're out hunting and those devices break? You dig through your pack or go back to camp where, hopefully, you've got backup devices. If you don't saddle yourself with those devices to begin with, you're hunting instead of humping it back and forth from stand to camp.
And then, when you've surrounded yourself with all your gear and doodads, you think you're ready to hunt. But you've boxed yourself in. You have no freedom. Instead of a hunter, you've become a machine operator.
When you do manage to release an arrow, was it YOU that made the kill or your mechanized weapons system? Or, if you missed, was it YOU that missed or did one of your devices malfunction? If you can blame a miss on a malfunctioning release/sight/arrow rest, then you must also give credit to those things when they function correctly. Credit given to the gear means less credit left over for you to claim.
And they even TELL you that, on those hunting shows! "I couldn't have done it without my Superstink bombs, Megablast bow, Whambam arrow rest...."
Isn't that sad? And you guys are watching shows these admittedly rotten hunters are doing?
Dean Torges doesn't draw the line between traditional and compound. He speaks instead of instinctive vs mechanist archery. The mechanist is a pessimist. The instinctive shooter is an optimist.
And there, I think, lies the biggest difference between compound shooters and traditional shooters, and why they don't get along so well.... Generally speaking, compounders are pessimists and are content with their pessimism. Trads are essential optimists. They find compounders' pessimism utterly depressing and can't understand why they wallow in such self pity.
Go to a 3D shoot. It's usually so quiet, often it seems like the whole place is a morgue. Nobody wants to talk aloud, afraid they'll get someone pissed off. Go to an all-traditional 3D shoot. It's like being at an amusement park! Hooting, hollering, laughing... just folks having a heckuva good time. Totally different mindset.
And that's also why so many less pessimistic compound shooters have been going traditional and becoming former compound shooters. It's nice to be self reliant and being around upbeat, optimistic people. Not to mention it's just plain FUN.
Walk into a shop and read the banners across the packaging. Read the magazine ads. Watch the ads on the hunting shows. It's all aimed directly at the pessimist. How effective it is depends entirely on how much of a pessimist you are.
You are absolutely convinced you cannot rely on your abilities to keep the wind in your face while you're hunting, so you go out and buy scent blocking clothes, lure scents, sex scents, scent bombs, scent free body scrubs/sprays/ointments/unguents... When all you've got to do is exercise reasonable hygiene and keep the wind in your face.
You're absolutely convinced that you cannot hold a bowstring in your fingers and get a clean release, so you go out and spend megabucks to buy a mechanical device to do what, with a little practice, your fingers will do for free.
You're absolutely convinced you cannot learn your arrows' trajectory, so you go out and buy bow sights to keep trajectory reference points (and face it, that's all a bow sight is - elevation reference). Now that you've got a bow sight - HORRORS! You've got to know exactly what the distance is to that target AND know how to split the gaps between your pins! Crap! Too much to keep track of! So you have to have lighter arrows/faster bow in order to reduce the amount of error...... When all you had to do is learn your arrow's trajectory at different distances and allow that marvelous computer between your ears to do the work.
It's about being self reliant vs enslavement to mechanical devices.
What do you do when you're out hunting and those devices break? You dig through your pack or go back to camp where, hopefully, you've got backup devices. If you don't saddle yourself with those devices to begin with, you're hunting instead of humping it back and forth from stand to camp.
And then, when you've surrounded yourself with all your gear and doodads, you think you're ready to hunt. But you've boxed yourself in. You have no freedom. Instead of a hunter, you've become a machine operator.
When you do manage to release an arrow, was it YOU that made the kill or your mechanized weapons system? Or, if you missed, was it YOU that missed or did one of your devices malfunction? If you can blame a miss on a malfunctioning release/sight/arrow rest, then you must also give credit to those things when they function correctly. Credit given to the gear means less credit left over for you to claim.
And they even TELL you that, on those hunting shows! "I couldn't have done it without my Superstink bombs, Megablast bow, Whambam arrow rest...."
Isn't that sad? And you guys are watching shows these admittedly rotten hunters are doing?
Dean Torges doesn't draw the line between traditional and compound. He speaks instead of instinctive vs mechanist archery. The mechanist is a pessimist. The instinctive shooter is an optimist.
And there, I think, lies the biggest difference between compound shooters and traditional shooters, and why they don't get along so well.... Generally speaking, compounders are pessimists and are content with their pessimism. Trads are essential optimists. They find compounders' pessimism utterly depressing and can't understand why they wallow in such self pity.
Go to a 3D shoot. It's usually so quiet, often it seems like the whole place is a morgue. Nobody wants to talk aloud, afraid they'll get someone pissed off. Go to an all-traditional 3D shoot. It's like being at an amusement park! Hooting, hollering, laughing... just folks having a heckuva good time. Totally different mindset.
And that's also why so many less pessimistic compound shooters have been going traditional and becoming former compound shooters. It's nice to be self reliant and being around upbeat, optimistic people. Not to mention it's just plain FUN.
09-03-2005, 10:15 AM
#14
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 3,903
RE: compounds
Must be a regional thing? Whenever the trad guys shoot at our 3d shoots around here , their treated with nothing but respect and admiration. Unless of course they cant hit the broad side of a barn from the inside and they still plan to hunt , but then again , the compound shooters who cant hit anything and still go into the woods to hunt are treated with the same respect.[:@]
Oh by the way , this thread looks reeeeally familiar. This same exact thread (and I mean EXACT , from the opening statement with theat the end ,to the paragraph at the end ),has shown up here at least twice in the last few years.
Come on Brad , you've come up with much more creative names than "trad archer". My personal favorite is Esspresso Feral Cat.
Oh by the way , this thread looks reeeeally familiar. This same exact thread (and I mean EXACT , from the opening statement with the
at the end ,to the paragraph at the end ),has shown up here at least twice in the last few years.Come on Brad , you've come up with much more creative names than "trad archer". My personal favorite is Esspresso Feral Cat.
09-03-2005, 11:13 AM
#16
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location:
Posts: 112
RE: compounds
I belong to an archery club and shoot a compound. I love being out on the range with people who shoot traditional. I can't help be in awe of how good these guys shoot them and have been kicking around the idea of getting into it.
09-03-2005, 12:24 PM
#17
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 3,903
RE: compounds
You are absolutely convinced you cannot rely on your abilities to keep the wind in your face while you're hunting, so you go out and buy scent blocking clothes, lure scents, sex scents, scent bombs, scent free body scrubs/sprays/ointments/unguents... When all you've got to do is exercise reasonable hygiene and keep the wind in your face.
You're absolutely convinced that you cannot hold a bowstring in your fingers and get a clean release, so you go out and spend megabucks to buy a mechanical device to do what, with a little practice, your fingers will do for free.
You're absolutely convinced you cannot learn your arrows' trajectory, so you go out and buy bow sights to keep trajectory reference points (and face it, that's all a bow sight is - elevation reference). Now that you've got a bow sight - HORRORS! You've got to know exactly what the distance is to that target AND know how to split the gaps between your pins! Crap! Too much to keep track of! So you have to have lighter arrows/faster bow in order to reduce the amount of error...... When all you had to do is learn your arrow's trajectory at different distances and allow that marvelous computer between your ears to do the work.
It's about being self reliant vs enslavement to mechanical devices.
You're absolutely convinced that you cannot hold a bowstring in your fingers and get a clean release, so you go out and spend megabucks to buy a mechanical device to do what, with a little practice, your fingers will do for free.
You're absolutely convinced you cannot learn your arrows' trajectory, so you go out and buy bow sights to keep trajectory reference points (and face it, that's all a bow sight is - elevation reference). Now that you've got a bow sight - HORRORS! You've got to know exactly what the distance is to that target AND know how to split the gaps between your pins! Crap! Too much to keep track of! So you have to have lighter arrows/faster bow in order to reduce the amount of error...... When all you had to do is learn your arrow's trajectory at different distances and allow that marvelous computer between your ears to do the work.
It's about being self reliant vs enslavement to mechanical devices.
I'm sure your analogy accounts for alot oftodays archers , but certainly not all. I started bowhunting with a45lb62" Indian recurve. Iwish I still had that bow. I could hit anything the size of a pie plate or smaller inside 20yds. I never harvested a deer with that bow , but that was due to my inexperience as a deerhunter , not an archer.
When compounds came along I purchased one because I thought it was the coolest thing since sliced bread. I love machinery and gadgets , thats what drew me to compounds , and still does, and I think there are many like me. A few years back I picked up a 64" 35lb Bear Tar Tar for $5 at a rummage sale. I love that bow! It brought back the memories of what originally drew me to archery. I can hit anything the size of a pie plate inside 20yds with that bow , I just wouldn't hunt with it. So I made the mistake of buying a 58" Grizzly off ebay ,thinking ofgoing back to a recurve for hunting. I found out the hard way that anything under 62" is too short for me , so I now have a 58" Grizzly collecting dust.
When I find that perfect recurve I'll probably end up going full circle and returning to the woods with just a recurve and a half dozen arrows. But I doubt I'll ever totally give up compounds unless I'm physically forced to because I still find it very fun.
09-03-2005, 01:32 PM
#19
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location:
Posts: 7
RE: compounds
my name is Phillip Martin not that brad guy. i decided to go to a all compound forum and see what you guys felt about the looking down on trad archers. sometimes i doit myself i see a massive animal taken witha 300+ fps compound and say, ah so what shoot it with a reall bow then talk. course i don't liek people who hunt for the trofies, when i start hunting it will be for the meat only, man i love venison.another thing we bowyers can do, we can tan the hide to amke leather, use the leg sinew from the achillies tendon to back bows with,and the bones can become knife handles, arrow striker plates, the antlers can become tip overlays we can use the whole deer.
09-03-2005, 01:40 PM
#20
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 9,175
RE: compounds
Or.....Your absolutely convinced that shooting these machined aluminum risers with reflexed limbs , drop away rests , light carbon arrows , fibre optic sights , and mechanical releases , is a crap load of fun.
For instance, look at all the guys who just showed up on the forum within the last week or so. One guy wanting to know whether to shoot fixed blade or mechanicals broadheads because THE SEASON OPENS IN TWO DAYS. That's something that he should have, and would have, already had settled if he enjoyed shooting his bow enough to keep at it during the 'offseason.' Look at the flood of guys hitting the pro shops right about now, trying to get their bows in shooting condition at the last minute. Those guys don't enjoy shooting a bow or the repairs would've already been done weeks ago.
There are folks who actually do enjoy shooting high tech stuff. But they make up more of a minority in the archery community at large than even traditional shooters do.
One thing about traditional, you have more time to shoot and practice. You know if your arrows are flying bad there are only 2 things to check, nock point and brace height. With a compound.... nock point, barometric pressure, centershot, brace height, moon phase, sights, release, sun spots, fletch clearance, Coriolis force...