Bill Yox

I know I really shouldnt come back to this post, but Ill give it one last try. Chad, you are one of those who are decent about this. Others were not. You too do not fully understand what really IS enclosure hunting, though. I know, I know, most of you will quickly reply that you dont WANT to know. Yeah, ok, we get you, we heard you, fine. But, like any other topic in these boards lately, you cant get an intelligent exchange. Instead you have trouble makers shooting off jabs to just try to bait someone into an argument instead. Its a shame really, because theres so much more to this or most any topic, but its seldom seen past the childishness.

We all see the so-called canned hunt on tv and other "legitimate" forms of media. Just like the over sized trap attached to a dead coon to disgust non-trappers, its just plain propaganda. Nobody would want that kind of "hunt". If there were honestly any guys in here who could look at this or similar topics and get a first hand opportunity to learn from people here who know this stuff, at least exchanges like this could be more interesting...and civil.

Instead, Ive enjoyed corresponding with a few guys off this topic and these boards and we have been able to talk facts. I dont plan on making anyone an enclosure hunter, but it sure beats the bullsh*t replies.

Earlier I threw quite a few parallels up for discussion and couldnt get one honest reply. Mine were all fact, all could be documented, yet nobody could contest one. Just the childish remarks. That, my friends, will be the end of this sport...not the manner of taking.

txjourneyman

My brother-in-law has a high fence pen. He raises whitetail and fallow deer as a cash crop. Here in Texas, deer = big $. He does not allow hunting on his property. His deer are for sale for breeding purposes and for hunting ranches. He is my best friend and hunting buddy but when he started this business I really had mixed emotions. I am opposed to canned hunts. I don't believe there is any sport involved them. I also have to remember that his herd is pen raised. The whitetails have to be registered with the state as does he as a breeder. If I think about his herd as a crop, farm raised and never wild, then I can live with some big money "sportsman" paying 25% of my annual salary to pull the trigger on a manufactured monster. I don't believe that is hunting. I believe it is ego boosting or trying to make up for something thats missing. I don't know. What I do firmly believe is that my feeling of satisfaction upon making a kill after hours of scouting, setting stands, etc. will be much greater than that of the man that does not much more than writing a check and pulling a trigger. If I ever believe I am no longer hunting but just harvesting a crop my guns and bow go to e-bay.

TXhighrack

txrookie:

Your brother-in-law is a deer breeder. Thats alot different then most high fenced ranches in Texas. Breeder bucks are alot like cattle, I'll be the first to admit that. You cant comparethe averagehigh fenced ranch to a deer breeder like your brother-in-law. True, both are striving to produce monster deer but the means and methods used by the two are drastically different.

kansasdeerhunter

I've read through this entire thread and seen everyone's argument for both sides of the fence. But I think the main problem with fenced hunting still remains: putting up a fence that keeps WILDLIFEfromt enteringand leaving an area isunethical. The wildlife is no longer wild. I don't care how big the ranch is, when deer have been proven to travel 8 miles in less than 48 hours, no ranch is big enough to provide a natural environment for the deer or any other animal. If fenced ranches are allowed to continue, what's it going to be like 100 years from now when every piece of land in rural areas has a big fence around it? There won't be any more truly "wild" life. Is that what you all really want? As a person who enjoys observing and being a part of the natural wild first and hunting second, I truly believe that fenced hunting is helping to kill yours and my freedom to enjoy God's country and put meat on our plates. Unfortunately the fast increasing prices of hunting on someone's land (mostly driven by those who wish to "gobble up" all the land they can so they can sell hunts at high prices) is devastating to not only hunting but also the enjoyment of wildlife.

BigJ71

This mindset is the problem I have with high fences..... To answer your question about if the deer belong to the "gang member" or "soccer mom" YES they do because theylive in Texas.Now you used twogroups of peoplethat are veryfar away from huntingjust so you could make your argument soundlegit. But what about the hunter who happens to live in downtownHouston? What about hisright to hunt? Is it fairfor you to fence in deer on your propertythat perhaps he might have been able to killhad you not?

So if the soccer momdecides one day she would like to take up hunting, or the gang member realizes that that's not the life for him and also wants to hunt, your view is they have less a right to those deerthan you because of who they are?

Why are your fences so high? The ONLY reason is to keep the states deer on your property so you and only you can hunt them. To me that is a very selfish and small way of thinking.

If you want deer to yourself then do like some others here do.....buy andraise them. Then you can put up a 40ft fence for all I care, because the deer on your land will be yours. You think because you feed and water the deer that gives you the right tokeep others from hunting them?So if I wash and put gas in a state vehicle I can keep it?

You want your own slice of hunting land forever and that's fine, I'm sure we all would. I see no reason why a4ft fence wouldn't work just as well. Remember if someone wants on your land a 12ft fence will not stop him. A 4ft fence will mark your property just as well and still let the wildlife be truely wild.

You said it yourself. "leagally the deer belong to the people of the state" but it wasn't worded that way to "keep everybody happy" it was worded that way to prevent just what you are doing, preventing the people of the state to hunt it's wildlife. And I for one hope the state does something about it.

TXhighrack

Kansasdeerhunter:

In this part of the country, 8 miles aint cheat. I was on a high fenced ranch this past Saturday in Duval county. The perimeter fence is 31 miles long and its "only" a 11,000 acre ranch. The ranch down the road is also high fenced and totals 41,000 acres. Theres another ranch not to far from the one I was one that is over 125,000 acres but is not high fenced. Five miles, ten miles, twenty miles dosent mean much around here. I've hunted on ranches in which I had to drive 45 mintutes from the gate that I entered (which is not the main gate) just to get to the stand I wanted to hunt. And I was on that same ranch the entire time and took the most direct route.

Every deer on each ranch that I hunt is living a very "natural" life. The deer that are NOT living a "natural" life are the deer who live on crowded public land and/or in areas with high human populations which is most of the mid-west and eastern states.

I would MUCH rather see apiece of land surrounded by a high fence, then see a piece of land covered in concrete.

TXhighrack

BigJ12:

Yes those two groups are very far away from hunting, thats exactly why I picked them. They are so far away from hunting that they should not benefit from it. To think those people "own" the exact same deer that I see running around on my property, or any private property, just because they live in the same state along with millions of other people, is in all practical means, nonsense.

Do you want me to be honest? Between one of my ranches (the Hinnant) and my neighbors in the area, we own roughly 57,000 acres. I bet that there are less then 40 people who get to hunt all that land each year. Weather the land was high fenced or not, that guy from Houston is s... out of luck. And besides if he is hunting in this area then he is probably going to be hunting on a large piece of land as well, which means he has his own deer to hunt and dosent need to hunt along one of our fences or hope a deer jumps onto his property in order to kill a buck.

No because we (I) would become a deer breeder. I dont like importing foreign genes or hand picking every buck that is on the property before I turn um' loose. I like native south Texas deer and I only want the deer that have always been on my property.

A high fence (there 7-8 ft, not 12) are generally not put up just for poachers. True it is alot easier to tell if somebody is poaching on your land when you have a high fenced compared to a 4 footer, but thats not the primary reason to erect a fence. Besides I have full time ranch hands that are on the ranch at all times and are really good at tracking and catching poachers and the laws down here are tough, its a felony to poach on somebodies land. So thats generally enough to keep people off.

In Texas high fences have been around since the 1940's. They've been around for over 60 years, longer then most people on this forum have been alive. High fences andcowboy hats area Texas tradition and neither are going anywhere.The Texas parks and wildlife commision supports and promotes high fences. In fact4, that I know of, of the commisioners who sit on the board at TPWD own high fenced ranches. They aint going nowhere, so pick a new topic to complain about to help you pass the time before deer season starts again.

BigJ71

No it's not nonsence because of two reasons....one (except for the gang members) they pay state taxes and therefore are entitled same as you. And two, there not YOUR deer.

So what you're telling me is the fences are up to keep the STATE deer in. That's my problem with high fences. There not YOUR deer.

Yeah, well segregation was around alot longer than that but that didn't make it right either.

I wonder why......How much money do you think the state sees from all of those high dollar hunts?

You may have stolen the deer on your land and can control them but that won't work with me.........tex.

You can spin it all you want, the bottom line is you have constructed a large "pen" and the deer......that AREN'T YOURS can't get out.

kansasdeerhunter

Who said anything about concrete???I don't want to see any more concrete than you, and I don't want to see a bunch of fences up everywhere "locking in" wildlife either.

That's exactly right! Putting up a fence to control wildlife that doesn't belong to you any more than it does the next person is wrong, no matter what city, county, state, country it is.

mammasboy

Just wondering TX, if you are hunting one of the large acre ranches and happen to be by the perimeter fencing and see a shooter buck, do you not shoot because the escape route for the deer has been minimized? What I'm asking, isthere a certain distance from the perimeter that is, for all intensive purposes, off limits?