Should high fence deer pens be illegal???
06-27-2005, 02:39 PM
#111
Typical Buck
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 866
RE: Should high fence deer pens be illegal???
ORIGINAL: Tim4Trout
In response to various previous posts ...
Since when does putting a fence around property change attempting to harvest a deer from hunting to not hunting ?
In response to various previous posts ...
Since when does putting a fence around property change attempting to harvest a deer from hunting to not hunting ?
*****
An animal's ability to elude the hunter is not necessarily compromised by having that animal confined within an enclosure.
All facilities are not alike, thus one should not judge such facilities and how they operate as a whole based upon those such as that which happened recently involving a single facility in Indiana.
*****
To those opposed to high fence operations.
While I would certainly take a stand against someone putting a tame deer from a petting zoo in a 30 by 50 ft pen, have somebody shoot it, and call it hunting, many facilities involve more than what be necessary to meet the requirements for fair chase, which is often the key argument against such facilities.
To those opposed to high fence operations.
While I would certainly take a stand against someone putting a tame deer from a petting zoo in a 30 by 50 ft pen, have somebody shoot it, and call it hunting, many facilities involve more than what be necessary to meet the requirements for fair chase, which is often the key argument against such facilities.
Right at this link you can read the deerfarmer's hand picked rep. Brad Thurston's comment's that these facilities exist here in Indiana on as little as 2 acres.
http://www.in.gov/dnr/cervidcouncil/marchmeeting.pdf
Item 10, top of page 6
Any implimentation which can increase a persons chances of success poses the risk of being judged as taking away from what might be considered as " fair chase ".
If you choose not to participate in a high fence hunt ... FINE
But please don't take away from those that do, or put them down.
Anti hunting factions are out there to END ALL HUNTING. If you think they will stop their attacks after hunting methods which you feel do not construe fair chase are eliminated, THINK AGAIN !!!
If you choose not to participate in a high fence hunt ... FINE
But please don't take away from those that do, or put them down.
Anti hunting factions are out there to END ALL HUNTING. If you think they will stop their attacks after hunting methods which you feel do not construe fair chase are eliminated, THINK AGAIN !!!
Nobody can tell a deer is free from it.
Nobody knows how it is spead.
Deer travel farther and faster in trucks than they do walking.
It's ridiculous to increase the risk to everybody else in the country and the whole rest of the deer herd so a few wanna bees and slime balls can shoot a pet in a cage.
06-27-2005, 05:14 PM
#113
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,846
RE: Should high fence deer pens be illegal???
ORIGINAL: Bill Yox
Datamax, of course my post sicken you...you dont understand it. Its the way it is, you only see your side. Im not going to persuade you, so theres no need to continue that way, sorry.
TXhighrack, I wouldnt bother, theres always a guy who is going to boil it all down to "who's deer is smarter" kind of silliness. The guy couldnt grasp why I mentioned the size comparison in my first post, for cripes sake. But, and I cant believe Im siding with him, he does make a point on the type of deer he is hunting. Ill dare say that in some instances, our urban deer hunting is almost more challenging then the "wild" deer of the largest tracts of land. These urban deer just tolerate us in a different way, theyre not tame. You can be sure that the average buck in an urban setting that grows this big is actually patterning US.
Derrslayer, theres REAL evidence that the CWD positive deer from NY came from a rehabilitator who recieved deer from the wild. In other words, right now the proof works both ways. They also wanna blame it on him being a taxidermist. You guys ready to shut down taxidermy while youre at it? Far more guys have gone west out of NY state and shot deer in Colorado, etc, and brought them home and thrown the remains out the back door, than there are all deer farms in NY state. I just dont like to see people run with only partial info. One of the very first posts on this thread stated that deer farmers started CWD in Wisconsin. Look, if someone wants to parrot what they hear, hear the facts first. Go find out why graduate students out of the University of Wisconsin at Madison did their thesis papers on wasting diseases in deer, uh, mule deer, that is. You know, mule deer, the deer that is NOT native to Wisconsin? Yep, all three test stations that housed deer, courtey of the good old game commission, are where the first positive deer came from, NOT the deer farms. Wisconsin brought those mulies in from...you fill in the blank!
Sorry, guys, some of you just dont care for deer in enclosures, thats fine. You cannot tell a guy WHY he should hunt, or what he should percieve.You cannot tell a guy what is or isnt a trophy. To some extent you cannot determine for him what constitutes fair chase. Sometimes it just aint fair, but it is what it is.
The funniest (read SAD) part about this? We are all brothers in that we have a shared hunting heritage, yet we fight amongst ourselves. First we were all the bad guys when we wanted to use compound bows, and the "purists" hated us. How soon we forget! Now we fight about baiting. We fight about hunting with dogs. We fight about crossbows. Ask folks in Europe how much of a PRIVELEDGE it is to be able to hunt.
Datamax, of course my post sicken you...you dont understand it. Its the way it is, you only see your side. Im not going to persuade you, so theres no need to continue that way, sorry.
TXhighrack, I wouldnt bother, theres always a guy who is going to boil it all down to "who's deer is smarter" kind of silliness. The guy couldnt grasp why I mentioned the size comparison in my first post, for cripes sake. But, and I cant believe Im siding with him, he does make a point on the type of deer he is hunting. Ill dare say that in some instances, our urban deer hunting is almost more challenging then the "wild" deer of the largest tracts of land. These urban deer just tolerate us in a different way, theyre not tame. You can be sure that the average buck in an urban setting that grows this big is actually patterning US.
Derrslayer, theres REAL evidence that the CWD positive deer from NY came from a rehabilitator who recieved deer from the wild. In other words, right now the proof works both ways. They also wanna blame it on him being a taxidermist. You guys ready to shut down taxidermy while youre at it? Far more guys have gone west out of NY state and shot deer in Colorado, etc, and brought them home and thrown the remains out the back door, than there are all deer farms in NY state. I just dont like to see people run with only partial info. One of the very first posts on this thread stated that deer farmers started CWD in Wisconsin. Look, if someone wants to parrot what they hear, hear the facts first. Go find out why graduate students out of the University of Wisconsin at Madison did their thesis papers on wasting diseases in deer, uh, mule deer, that is. You know, mule deer, the deer that is NOT native to Wisconsin? Yep, all three test stations that housed deer, courtey of the good old game commission, are where the first positive deer came from, NOT the deer farms. Wisconsin brought those mulies in from...you fill in the blank!
Sorry, guys, some of you just dont care for deer in enclosures, thats fine. You cannot tell a guy WHY he should hunt, or what he should percieve.You cannot tell a guy what is or isnt a trophy. To some extent you cannot determine for him what constitutes fair chase. Sometimes it just aint fair, but it is what it is.
The funniest (read SAD) part about this? We are all brothers in that we have a shared hunting heritage, yet we fight amongst ourselves. First we were all the bad guys when we wanted to use compound bows, and the "purists" hated us. How soon we forget! Now we fight about baiting. We fight about hunting with dogs. We fight about crossbows. Ask folks in Europe how much of a PRIVELEDGE it is to be able to hunt.
TX, tell me, if you have 10,000 acres, or 100,000 acres, why does it have to be high fenced? It's not like the deer are going anywhere anyways...
06-27-2005, 06:00 PM
#114
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Lancaster, Ohio
Posts: 809
RE: Should high fence deer pens be illegal???
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up here in ohio cant use rilfes. were i hunt at its like a warzone. but we have no accidents even tho we have some red neck hillbillys up here (im one lol) were all pretty safe.
[blockquote]quote:
ORIGINAL: datamax
I have 5 acres and plan to hunt it well this fall.
[/blockquote]
il-cornfeild u think thats hunting? what fun is that knowing yeah i have a huge buck that cant go anywere. thats not hunting thats practically poaching in my book. weare ihunt iv seen a buck go from about 8 points to 14 last season and im pretty sure hes still out there. i hunt in muyskingum county ohio. if u look every year this county gets the most deer and hes still out there kicking u have no idea what its like every time i hear gunshot wondeirn if a poacher got him or a hunter. u just have to wait to next season. thats hunting[/blockquote]
[blockquote]quote:
ORIGINAL: datamax
I have 5 acres and plan to hunt it well this fall.
[/blockquote]
Thats the reason hunting accident ratios are so much higher up north!!! I hope your not using a rifle or pistol!! Heck even with Archery gear you are taking a chance in having arrow make it off the property... [align=right]
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ORIGINAL: datamax
I have 5 acres and plan to hunt it well this fall.
[/blockquote]
Thats the reason hunting accident ratios are so much higher up north!!! I hope your not using a rifle or pistol!! Heck even with Archery gear you are taking a chance in having arrow make it off the property... [align=right]
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up here in ohio cant use rilfes. were i hunt at its like a warzone. but we have no accidents even tho we have some red neck hillbillys up here (im one lol) were all pretty safe.
[blockquote]quote:
ORIGINAL: datamax
I have 5 acres and plan to hunt it well this fall.
[/blockquote]
I can't say that I'm against high fences at all. In fact, IF I had the money to buy as much land as I would like, IF I couldn't get the neighbors to go along with a serious management and/or had a problem with tresspassing then I would fence the property. I'll admit it would be pretty cool to actually know that when you passed up an animal that you thought has serious potential, then a neighbor couldn't blast it! If ya got the money.... it's your land, go for it! [align=right]
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06-27-2005, 06:04 PM
#115
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location:
Posts: 2,678
RE: Should high fence deer pens be illegal???
TX, tell me, if you have 10,000 acres, or 100,000 acres, why does it have to be high fenced? It's not like the deer are going anywhere anyways...
It has to be high fenced because the deer are gauranteed NOT to leave the property, and the gaurantee that they can raise the deer densities as high as they want, cull the bucks they want, supplemental feed and do all the QDM stuff is gauranteed.
I mean, spend all that time and money for that 200" to walk off and let someone else shoot YOUR deer ?
IMPOSSIBLE !
06-27-2005, 06:17 PM
#116
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Lancaster, Ohio
Posts: 809
RE: Should high fence deer pens be illegal???
ok for everyone talkin about hte average joes and bubbas. im an averagejoe/bubba. i dont get new stuff every year. i still hunt. i would like to get the big one. the biggest buck i got was a button buck i thought was a doe. so what im saying is before u talk about the "average joe" or "bubba" why dont u spend a couple years in our shoes. not always havin places to hunt fish etc. not always havin ammo. not even having camo that alot of people think is a necesity? its not every deer iv killed has been in carhart coat and jeans. most of us average joes and bubbas hunt to feed ourselfes and our familys. there is only one kind of poaching i think is legal. thats when no one will hire u and ur dirt broke and u shoot animal for u and your family to survive. or even if u have a job but still cant always feed your family. my mom and dad were raised like that and thats i veiw it. my mom has told me stories were her mom kept her from school just to clean deer to eat. and better yet then just spendin a couple of years in the average joes shoes try spendin a life in his shoes.......
06-27-2005, 08:22 PM
#118
Fork Horn
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Texas
Posts: 117
RE: Should high fence deer pens be illegal???
And I'll put out a offer to you Masterblaster, I'll be happy to share a campfire anytime, even though we are on differnt sides of the fence issue....I have plenty of hogs that need to be whacked out by Eastland..
06-27-2005, 11:33 PM
#120
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Brockport, NY
Posts: 613
RE: Should high fence deer pens be illegal???
Well, I tried to be nice and let some of you in on what really happens with this stuff, but it aint worth it to me. Data is a classic example of someone who is misinformed but thinks he will suck someone into an argument. Not here.
Deerslayer, every one of those areas you mentioned lines up nicely with a test station from the Madison facility first, and then spread from there. Its amazing how you can argue this point, overlooking the fact that it was mule deer they started with, as an example. The facts I spoke of are all well-documented. Especially to folks who take the time to educate themselves. I have to know this stuff, its my business, not just a hobby. I need to have healthy deer on both sides of the fence.
The CWD found in NY state was not from a game farm, it was from a guy rehabbing wild deer for the state of NY. Ive known the guy twenty years...again, I know first hand, not heresay. I could give you details that, once explained, would have intelligent folks asking questions. Perhaps as a Wisconsin resident, you should be asking your state game department why theyre still spending millions of dollars to find 214 suspect deer, at the rate of close to 50 thousand per animal once you do the math, and yet your state enjoyed its second highest deer take ever? Heck, Wyoming has CWD in its deer too, and has never even had a captive deer program.
Id love to speak with guys truly interested in this stuff, even if theyd never shoot a deer behind fence. Unfortunately, I believe this has become largely a group of guys misinformed just posting to argue. TXhighrack took the hint, I think Ill do the same.
Again, fellas, enjoy your form of hunting, and I wish you all well.
Deerslayer, every one of those areas you mentioned lines up nicely with a test station from the Madison facility first, and then spread from there. Its amazing how you can argue this point, overlooking the fact that it was mule deer they started with, as an example. The facts I spoke of are all well-documented. Especially to folks who take the time to educate themselves. I have to know this stuff, its my business, not just a hobby. I need to have healthy deer on both sides of the fence.
The CWD found in NY state was not from a game farm, it was from a guy rehabbing wild deer for the state of NY. Ive known the guy twenty years...again, I know first hand, not heresay. I could give you details that, once explained, would have intelligent folks asking questions. Perhaps as a Wisconsin resident, you should be asking your state game department why theyre still spending millions of dollars to find 214 suspect deer, at the rate of close to 50 thousand per animal once you do the math, and yet your state enjoyed its second highest deer take ever? Heck, Wyoming has CWD in its deer too, and has never even had a captive deer program.
Id love to speak with guys truly interested in this stuff, even if theyd never shoot a deer behind fence. Unfortunately, I believe this has become largely a group of guys misinformed just posting to argue. TXhighrack took the hint, I think Ill do the same.
Again, fellas, enjoy your form of hunting, and I wish you all well.