mammasboy

Perhaps they are refering to "fair" chase.

FAIR CHASE STATEMENT
FAIR CHASE, as defined by the Boone and Crockett Club, is the ethical, sportsmanlike, and lawful pursuit and taking of any free-ranging wild, native North American big game animal in a manner that does not give the hunter an improper advantage over such animals.


Because deer in an enclosure does give the hunter a mathematical advantage ( no matter how slight), it would be interesting to know if supporters of high fences believe it is fair chase. As stated before, I don't believe it is wrong, but let's be honest about factual differences.

TXhighrack

Datamax:

You really dont understand Texas a whole lot do you? South Texas for the most part is made up of many large private ranches. If hunting was ever banned, it would be awfully hard to control or even know whats going on in the middle of a big ranch. Most politicians in Texas own land, alot of them hunt. Since Texas is made up of 98% of private land, the private land owners in this state carry ONE HELL of a political stick. If we want something done, we can get it done. And honestly do you think some big landowner in Texas is going to listen to what some Liberal judge or congressman says? Like I said, us Texans will always be hunting, I cant say the same for the rest of the country.

Look not all of our land is high fenced, I would say about 40% of it is. Most of the land has a perimeter 4 strand barbwire fence. But we wanted to high fence some of it so we did, some of the other high fence was erected by a couple of various neighbors for their management program. When your neighbor high fences their land, you have no choice, your land has now become high fenced to. Which didnt bother us any, hell it saved us some money.

Hunting has always been a "common mans" sport. The average American is what made hunting what it is today, I cant deny that. But I think its going to be the upper class hunter and the wealthy guys who keep it alive in the next century. The reason why hunting is still around and the biggest thing that hunting has going for it, is the fact that it is a MULTI BILLON dollar industry. Lets be honest, to the average American, the ones that so many of ya'll are worried about when it comes time to vote, to them it looks good and sounds good when they hear that doctors, lawyers, politicans, CEO's, and big shots are out hunting. It dosent look good when they think the average hunter is Elmer Fudd.

LBR

TXhighrack, I made it a point to say I was not attacking you personally, then you make it a point to attack me. I guess I gave you too much credit--you seemed to be intelligent enough to use reason and information instead of throwing stones. Oh well....

So I was correct--it's all about greed and/or selfishness. Hope nothing every happens to you that knocks you down to Average Joe status.

You've turned this into something completely different. I don't hunt Texas. If I do, I have friends there I can rely on that will let me hunt on their places. I'm not asking or expecting everyone to open up their land to the public or let the "less fortunate" hunt on their property. This had absolutely nothing to do with welfare--it's about the future of hunting. If you can afford to buy up every parcel of land in TX, more power to you. Don't look for everyone else in the state to stand behind you or back you up when you need them though.

The thing that's very clear is you don't have a clue who you are talking to, and have to resort to 5-year-old name calling because you don't have a legitimate defense for what you choose to do. You "think" completely wrong. And you will be sorry if you ever call me a communist again--that is if you care a thing about your priveledges on HNI.

Let me tell you a little bit about myself. I love to hunt, primarily bowhunt. I have nothing against shotguns, rifles, pistols, or muzzleloaders--I own, or have owned all of these, and hunted with them. I bowhunt with a longbow and wooden arrows. I have owned, shot, and hunted with compounds in the past. The reason I use a longbow is because you have to hunt harder, work harder, and try harderto get a shot. It's the ultimate challenge. Yeah, I'm all torn up because things aren't fair--so much that I severly limit myself with my equipment to make it even more unfair. You have absolutely no idea.......

That's already been covered. You canignore it if you want, but it won't change a thing. I guess I could add that you are cheating yourself, and your decendants, out of the right to legally hunt.

And what do you base this on? Do you know me, or anything about me? Tell me how old I am, how many kids I have (if I have any), their age, my marital status, etc. You aren't basing anything you say on facts, or even common sense.

Lol--just a FYI, but killing spikes is illegal in MS. We have a 4-point or better law. Another FYI--I have hunted public land, but very few times. I primarily hunt private land.

Just how many others? The ones that bought up all the land? Tough luck to those that got left out huh? So if hunting is made illegal in your state, you will hunt anyway? Wouldn't that make you a poacher? Hmmmm......just a few posts back you were saying you would make sure that any poachers caught would do time in jail.

Personally I'd like to think that most hunters are law-abiding citizens, even when they don't agree with the law.

That's the most sense you have made on this thread. But then you had to blow it out of the water with the very next statement.

Yeah-buddy. The average American is all for guys particpating in sports they can't afford themselves--that's why polo, yacht racing, etc. is so popular with the average guy. Talk to someone in England, or Germany, or some other country where hunting has become nothing but a rich man's game. You are living in a fantasy world if you think they are happy about that. It's a big-money business allright. Reckon who spends the majority of that money though? Reckon all those big companies could survive a month without all those Average Joes supporting them by buying their products? Or is it the rich minority buying all those bows, arrows, release aids, sights, quivers, magazines, scents, etc. etc. etc. How about the Fish and Game departments of every state--reckon how long they could keep operating if all those Average Joes quit buying a license?

This is just my opinion, but I think the average American rather see Elmer Fudd hunting using Fair Chase methodsrather than a yuppie Rambo shooting Bambi in a fence.

We have accomplised one thing here--it seems, for your part anyway, it's not a matter of whether we have the legal right to hunt in the future, whether hunting should be a challenge, or that public perception of hunters means a thing. Oh well......I asked for honesty--guess I should be more careful about what I ask for.

I apologize to the regulars on this board--I never had any intentions of coming over here and raising a ruckus. I'll be gone next week, so you won't have to put up with me for at least that long.

Chad

Tribal

That is exactly what is destroying the sport. It's not better in the least because of that. I will never give in to the dollar to make some rich guy who buys all the expensive gear thinking he is a great hunter cause he pulls the trigger on some trophy. I am a great hunter but don't leave me behind because I can't find my way off this farm!It's a joke, I will never pay top dollar to go let some guide lead me around the woods and tell me what and what not to do. I see it in these hunting shows everday and what idiots they look like. Thats just my opinion and will stick to it.

TTH

LOL, I think that above communist statement was directed at the wrong person

datamax

mammasboy - Huge ranches are fair chase ........... they are fair chase even with fences if they're big enough. BUT ......... its a different kind of hunting for sure.

Lets say that 10,000 state preserve down the road is giving out 1 permit and you draw it. Do you think those deer will be as wiley and wary as the state public land you normally hunt ? Do you think there will be a shortage of big bucks ?

Its way different

Kept alive ..... maybe. Still "hunting" ? No, not really.

You mean like John Kerry and the bull schit he tried to sell ? Wealthy people, business men, politicians ....... they are exactly the ones that enjoy canned hunting. Fly in on Tuesday night, sleep well in a down bed, have breakfast made when they get up, guide drives them to a heated stand, 10 minutes after daylight big 175" buck walks out with 25 other bucks/does, man shoots buck, guide goes and gets it, man back at camp by 9 am and guide does the rest, plane by noon, back to the office by 5 pm, 3 months later big deer mount arrives and man brags about the hell of a hunt he went on [:'(]

NOT hunting - never will be.


I lived in Dallas, Belton, Lometa, outside Houston, Corpus Christi ......... I've been around Texas, lived and breathed Texas air for over 3 years. I liked Texas, I shot my bow there a LOT, in many archery shops, read Texas Trophy Hunter for years .............. tell me, how much do you know about anywhere BUT Texas ???

NewbHunter

I dont think they should be illegal. You have to look at the whole picture to it. Like datamax said its another story if ur calling it "HUNTING". But for a young new hunter sometimes its a good way to get there feet wet into the hunting world. It has its advantages and disadvantages but if we get into that there might be some conflicts so lets just leave it at that.

Deerslayer_37

They seem to have something to do with the spread of CWD to Wisconsin and New York. Just for that reason, they need to be banned

datamax

Quote:

But for a young new hunter sometimes its a good way to get there feet wet into the hunting world

I don't believe that at all - showing a child how to shoot a penned deer is NOT the correct way to show them Hunting. What it teaches them is that its fun to kill animals, that paying = gauranteed animals, that all the prep work for the hunt can be bypassed, 100% kill is a must, etc etc.

No, game farms are terrible things to take young hunters or first time hunters to

Bill Yox

Datamax, of course my post sicken you...you dont understand it. Its the way it is, you only see your side. Im not going to persuade you, so theres no need to continue that way, sorry.

TXhighrack, I wouldnt bother, theres always a guy who is going to boil it all down to "who's deer is smarter" kind of silliness. The guy couldnt grasp why I mentioned the size comparison in my first post, for cripes sake. But, and I cant believe Im siding with him, he does make a point on the type of deer he is hunting. Ill dare say that in some instances, our urban deer hunting is almost more challenging then the "wild" deer of the largest tracts of land. These urban deer just tolerate us in a different way, theyre not tame. You can be sure that the average buck in an urban setting that grows this big is actually patterning US.

Derrslayer, theres REAL evidence that the CWD positive deer from NY came from a rehabilitator who recieved deer from the wild. In other words, right now the proof works both ways. They also wanna blame it on him being a taxidermist. You guys ready to shut down taxidermy while youre at it? Far more guys have gone west out of NY state and shot deer in Colorado, etc, and brought them home and thrown the remains out the back door, than there are all deer farms in NY state. I just dont like to see people run with only partial info. One of the very first posts on this thread stated that deer farmers started CWD in Wisconsin. Look, if someone wants to parrot what they hear, hear the facts first. Go find out why graduate students out of the University of Wisconsin at Madison did their thesis papers on wasting diseases in deer, uh, mule deer, that is. You know, mule deer, the deer that is NOT native to Wisconsin? Yep, all three test stations that housed deer, courtey of the good old game commission, are where the first positive deer came from, NOT the deer farms. Wisconsin brought those mulies in from...you fill in the blank!

Sorry, guys, some of you just dont care for deer in enclosures, thats fine. You cannot tell a guy WHY he should hunt, or what he should percieve.You cannot tell a guy what is or isnt a trophy. To some extent you cannot determine for him what constitutes fair chase. Sometimes it just aint fair, but it is what it is.

The funniest (read SAD) part about this? We are all brothers in that we have a shared hunting heritage, yet we fight amongst ourselves. First we were all the bad guys when we wanted to use compound bows, and the "purists" hated us. How soon we forget! Now we fight about baiting. We fight about hunting with dogs. We fight about crossbows. Ask folks in Europe how much of a PRIVELEDGE it is to be able to hunt.