newhunter35

I was just curious and called T/C Arms to inquire about shooting the No Excuse Connicals. I spoke to a tech who told me that they do not recommend the Maxi-Ball or Maxi-Hunter in their Omegas. The tech told me that they only recommend the sabots like the 250-300 grain shockwaves. They also recommend Prodex in FFG. I did get out of the tech that they have a 470 connical, but that all the conicals they have is for guns with the 1 in 48" twist and not the 1 in 28" twist. With the big 470's that T/C has they shoot them with the max of 100 grains. I asked him about the 460 and basically I'm on my own but he would not go over 100 grains--that's great because I am shooting all my powerbelts at 80-95 grains tops. I'm still in the testing phase with the omega so I'll let everyone know more about how these NE bullets work after I get some BM3. He did say that he got great accuracy with the 295 AT powerbelts, but he did say that they don't test them (PB) because they are CVA products. Off the record they (according to the tech) tumble after 100 yards.

So my question to people out there who have shot the No Excuse connicals--am I thinking to much or should I take this information with "a grain of salt." I am really liking the 460 grain bullet (the looks at least) and am looking forward to putting these down range and later into a deer.

The tech has never heard of the No Excuse Connicals, Precision Bullets, Black mag3, APP or anything that we on the internet has talked about. At least that is what he told me on the phone at work.

Oh Well
Paul

cayugad

This shows three different powders that I tested the No Excuses Conicals with, out of my Thompson Center Black Diamond XR. This was done at 100 yards off my bench rest.

I would not push the No Excuses Conicals even up to 100 grains but I am sure the rifle could take it. The recoil will be brutal. With this load of Triple Se7en and the NE's the accuracy was excellent, recoil with controlled, and there is plenty of power to do anything you want to do.

As for the Tech not having heard of some of these different projectiles out there, that tells me they are either told not to acknowledge anything that T/C does not sell (maybe for liability reasons), or he is not much of a black powder shooter and experimenter. There are some people that buy a rifle, use one load and never change. Then there are some that have shelves of different projectiles they have tried.

You will be fine with the Omega + 80 grains of FFg + No Excuses Conicals. There will not be a deer that can withstand you putting that in the vitals...

Good luck and keep us posted on how your rifle shoots...

Mark whiz

I agree with cayugad - 100gr of powder will be overkill. I've had just as good of results as he, shooting the 460s out of my Knight USAK with 90gr of 2fg 777. 90gr gave me my best accuracy between 80, 85, & 90gr charges. I also tried 3fg 777 in the same charges, but the groups opened up and that 90gr of 3fg 777 WAS brutal to shot. I'm not real recoil sensitive, but that load was a monster.

C. Davis

I shoot the 460 gr. bullet out of my Hawken. I use 85 gr. of FFG. The only reason I use that much powder is so I don't loose my elevation at 100 yards. I don't have a chrono. but my guess is that I am somewhere around 1000 to 1200 fps. That kind of velocity with this bullet will penetrate anything you will be hunting.

C. Davis

Triple Se7en

The NEs are a great hunting bulllet if you only hunt with it - but it's better if you own more than one ML - so frequent visits to the range for 20-30 shots with another ML & smaller bullet make for a good time at the range without the need for 1" Sims recoil pads or a heavier, balanced rifle to avoid the brusing, shocking effect. I shoot 5 jugs every year. My shoulder could stand 30 No Excuse shots every year.... not 375.

Recently, I come to the conclusion that I like shooting my 58-cal T/C sidelock Renegade the most -- out of 5 ML rifles I own. Even with that monster Sims pad, I quit the large conicals & now shoot roundballs out of it. 280 grains is plenty for deer-killing. I do not use a gun rest at any time also. So therefore, my scopes must have some pretty decent eye relief & I can't be worried about flinching since I only use my elbow on my knee or table as my gun rest.

If you're a good shooter & borrowing my MLs, you won't need the 58-cal conical 405s or the 50-cal Powerbelt 405s in my accessories box. A 285 Buffalo sabot bullet is the largest I'll use in my inlines. A 50-cal 270 gr. Buffalo HP Ballet is the largest I use in my 1-48 twist sidelock If I ever go elk hunting, I have 370 grain S.S.B sabot/bullets.... even alot of 405 Powerbelts to use. That's only a pipe dream... doesn't exist at the range or in the woods yet.

newhunter35

For those of you that care....I talked to someone at Precision bullets. Let me tell you that I was ticked at this guy for what he said. Basically he berated anyone who talked or used a conical in the T/C Omega. He told me that this was a sabot rifle. I found this person to be rude, opinionated, and brash. Instead of being encouraging and helping to someone new to muzzleloading he was condescending and extemely rude. At first he was cordial, but when I told him that I was looking for a conical bullet he told me that I should have bought a conical shooting rifle. I told him that I had indeed shot a powerbelt quite accurately out of the omega. To which he informed me that the powerbelt was simply a modified sabot.

I don't know if he had a bad day, or if people in Canada (trying not to be offensive) are just normally rude to each other.

Caycugard or someone else should try and contact this person and see what the bug was up his butt. He did make sense and I would like to try some of the bullets on his website, but not if they are going to treat potential customers like s###.

Off my soapbox nox--any advice?

Paul

cayugad

Everyone has their opinion and I guess he wanted to voice his in an unsocial way from the sounds of it. Not good for business if you know what I mean.

Take their comments with a grain of salt. If you feel that your rifle should not shoot conicals then don't shoot them. I personally would try the conicals and see how they shoot. I also know that I will be shooting them out of my Black Diamond in the future whether some company selling sabots likes them or not.

Do what you think best, and have fun shooting

Mark whiz

Well, if you really think about it - he's right. All Modern In-lines ARE designed to be sabot rifles. That's not to say that they CAN'T shoot conicals or patched balls, because they can and some do it very well as cayugad & myself can testify too.

But understand, the guys at Precision are purists in a way. They've gotten into the market of making special products for special purposes for specific guns. And just like the guy at T/C - they recommend sabots because the gun was designed for them and will perform the best with them.

I don't really know who you talked to at Precision or how rude they actually were, but I know I had a good conversation with Cecil there about 3 years ago and the man absolutely knows his stuff. I told him what rifle I had, what I planned on hunting and he told me the exact bullet to use (his 400gr ExtremeHP). I thought that was heavier than I wanted to shoot, so I ordered them along with the 360gr Extremes & Plinkers for practice - he did ask why I wanted to waste my time with the lighter bullets so I told him why. I wasn't insulted by his comment, I just chalked it up to a little bit of ego or confidence. Let's face it - when you shoot as much as he does........... one tends to get a little one-sided in their opinions. And one other thing - don't forget the French influence in Canada....................and rude is their way of life. [:@]

BTW, I tried those 400gr Extremes when I got them - the first 3 shots gave a 1"group at 100yds - that was the first group that gun ever shot.....it had only patterned with the sub-300gr bullets that came in the kit Knight included with the gun. That bullet took my first game taken with that rifle too. BUT since then, I tried the 360s and different 300gr bullet offerings and found them to be even more accurate. Also shot Ball & Conicals with very nice results too.

I guess the lesson here is ......................... remember all these guns are a tad different, so we ALL can keep learning stuff about our sport. No point in being hardheaded and rude to new ideas.

newhunter35

The thing is that I really wanted to try his bullets as well and I would have bought some QT sabots in a heart beat if he had been not so French. I will shoot the NE conicals and if they don't give me at least 1 1/2" at 100 yards then I'll reconsider the sabots--T/C shockwaves, etc...

Mark whiz

well there ARE plenty of options for sabots besides the Precisions - the SSTs/Shockwaves being a good one.
Then again, you can get the QTs at Cabela's cheaper than from Cecil anyway - so the middleman is getting most of the profit.