H2OmAn

I own two muzzleloaders, one is a Knight 50cal, the other one is
a Beartooth Magnum 45cal. I have read many threads that knock
any ML with the Spanish barell. You know the pressures & all.
Today while cleaning both of my MLs, I noticed a rather large
difference in the rifling. With both barells squeaky clean, with bore
light, it is extremely difficult to see the rifling in the Knight. But
with the Beartooth the lands and grooves are very pronounced.
Both are 1-28 twist. At the farm where I shoot the Beartooth is
much more accurate than the Knight American. I was wondering
if anyone else has noticed that the rifling in the Knight rifles is
not very pronounced. I shot with same powder charge and bullet
weight. Any info would be greatly appreciated.

cayugad

As to one rifle being more accurate then the other that only tells me that you have not found the right load for the Knight yet. Try some 240 grain T/C Mag Express XTP with about 85-95 grains of Goex 3f. I think you will find some excellent accuracy out of it.

As for the difference in rifling that you notice, that might be caused by the way the barrels are produced. The debth and cut of the rifling differ from maker to maker. Your Knight has a Green Mountian Barrel. The GMB is one of the best barrels on the market.

Glad to hear both rifles are doing well and that the Beartooth is an accurate rifle. I am sure once the right load comes in, the Knight will surprise you as well.

Good luck with the rifles.

J Bolt 7mm

Hey H20
I own a Beartooth Mag.50. I haven't shot it yet but I have been scouring the net to find info about my muz. It seems like the people who don't own one talk about how cheap they are. The few people out ther who actually own one have nothing but good to say about their accuracy. I know that they don't have the best sights in the world but I don't care I use a scope. I'm taking it to the range next weekend I will let everyone know how it shoots for me.

SuperMagnum

I own a CVA optima with a spanish barrel too as well and the rifling sure is more noticeable than others, but it sure as heck is really accurate although alot of people knock them.

HighDesertWolf

im a bit sick of the knocking myself, schoolboy is 110% absolutley correct the only people who knock them are the ones who dont even own one or fired one for that matter everything they preech is all hearsay anyway dont listen to them they dont know what the heck they are talking about.

every muzzle loader I own has a quote "One of those spanish made barrels" OMG its the ******* end of the world if you have a spanish made barrel....., anyway every muzzle loader i own is either a cva or traditions and I have nothing but praise for them I love and have no desire for anything else unless i get a wild hair up my rear and decide to explore a different brand. Oh yea ive been shooting these quote "junk" CVA's and traditions muzzle loaders for nearly 15 years, I have yet to see one blow up or have one blow up..........

green01

i would rather buy three guns than buy one for three times more that necessary. my goal is to shoot as many guns as i can in my life.

Triple Se7en

H2O...

Knight Rifles are shallow-grooved .003. The average twist in 50-caliber has been 1-32" the past 3-4 years to compenasate. These are sabot rifles. Knight does not offer Knight-packaged conicals for their inline MLs... even recently dropped the Knight=packaged Powerbelt conicals from it's lineup. Most Knight are picky Powerbelt throwers. A minority will shoot one or two of the heavy grains well @ 100 yards... that's about it.

Your CVA likely has .005 button rifling. The average twist in 50-caliber has been 1-28" the past 3-4 years to compenaste. These offer combination shooting dues to CVA's ties to Powerbelt conicals. CVA's generally shoot most conicals, almost all Powerbelt grains & limited lubed conicals accurately - along with being pretty good sabot throwers.... but not as well as Knight Rifles - who offer 2-1/2" at 100 yard warranties using their sabots in almost all their models.

KenL

I have been a machinist for 18 years, and looking at it from my standpoint; the only thing I saw I did not care for about the CVA is , and this may be only applicable to the model I looked at, I saw burrs on the rifle, therefore it didn't look as finished as some of the more expensive rifles. All of the machining looked ok, and honestly if a burr is the only thing that keeps someone from buying a rifle, I say that person is lazy, it only takes a couple minutes to deburr, and or lap the burrs off. I thought the quality of machining looked to be just as good as other rifle brands, but with the burrs, and the corners not as rounded, it gives people the misconception that the rifle is of poor quality. All of my guns, no matter what it is, I go thru them, deburr, and polish them. It does help in the performance of moving parts, and it looks alot cleaner.

H2OmAn

KenL: I too saw some very minor burrs on my Beartooth cva
I took some fine grade valve lapping compound a patch wrapped
around my wire brush. About 50-100 strokes and the burrs were
gone, and the inside of the barrel looked like a mirror. I think
this also helps with accuracy. I realize that different gun makers
use different processes to make their barrels. I just thought it
odd that the so-called-cheap ML would have lands & grooves so
much more pronounced than some of the higher-priced ones.
Thanks for your comments.

Rwalter63

As for BPI's barrel process, (they manufacturer CVA, New Frontier and Traditions) according to there web site they are using and cold forging method which yields a barrel with rifling in a single process which means they are using an extrusion technique. They could be extruding the steel at temperatures any where from room temp to a few hundered degrees. The method they use I would guess for the process would go something like this where a chemically lubricated bar slug of steel is forced into a closed die under extreme pressure. The unheated metal then flows into the desired barrel shape die. During this process the cylinder is formed and rifling is included in the barrel all in a single step process. Now it certainlly differs from using a button technique where they take a barrel blank slightly smaller than the caliber expected and ram the button down blank. Another method is Hammer forging where your taking about taking a nearly 2-inch-diameter bar of steel about 12 inches long with a hole through its center, and hammering it until it, elongates it into a tube of the desired length. It usually ends up having a muzzle diameter less than one-third of what it was originally. All three methods then would have to be releived for stress. Then there is cut or "hook" rifling technique where this process uses a cutter, which is a small hook in a hardened steel cylinder that just fits the barrel blank. The cylinder or cutter box moves through the bore via a long rod that pulls the hook against the bore wall, removing about .0001 of an inch of steel with each pass. Still another method is Electrochemical rifling. The processes rifling is formed by wet-etching the interior of a barrel under an electric current. The metal inside the barrel is actually eaten away or dissolved to create grooves in the barrel.

Each rifling technique produces a distinct forensic rifling pattern. Here are a few excellent links on the subject of barrels if your interested.

http://www.xtremeaccuracy.com/Rifle_Barrel.htm

http://www.rifleshootermag.com/gunsmithing/RSgunsmith1/

http://www.gunsandammomag.com/techsi...n_120804/#cont

http://www.firearmsid.com/A_bulletIDrifling.htm.

As for the technique Knight uses I don't know but I hope this helps answer some aspects of your question.