can't get breach plug out....
01-09-2005, 06:36 PM
#11
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Idaho
Posts: 11,703
RE: can't get breach plug out....
Triple Se7en ,
You are exactly right it did take me along time to figure this breech plug thing out. Fortunately a couple of friends of mine that I shoot trap with are area gunsmiths, actually one builds competition rifles from the ground up and really a knowlegeable soul. He is the one that explained the princeple of the seal between the face of the breech plug and the flange in the barrel. The whole thing is to achieve this seal and then addtional seals can be had in each thread of the breech plug if the thread is snug against the breech threads. I am not saying "real tight" but snug.
I have found that if I have achieved this seal at the face of the breech plug, I do not get any blow back into the threads. You can see this on the remove Remington plug - I could almost put it back in and use it again - "no guts" so I won't. To insure this seal I overwrap and even then after the plug is installed I use a bore light and look into the bore to make sure that I see Teflon tape all the way around the bore. It is my, our, theory that if the seal is intact "do not break it" until you are ready to re-wrap, there-for I end up shooting my 20,30, ?? rounds then coming home and doing the cleaning. If I am not sure sure of the seal, I will remove the whole thing not just crack it, but remove and start over it is not that difficult.
Yes, I did try the various anti-sieze compounds, and yes they worked as long as I get the "seal." But, I always hated the cleanup and I was always worried about fouling a load with excess greese from the plug. During hunting season I will load and I may not shoot that load for several days - with tape no contamination - with greese "maybe." The load I had in my Remington at the end of the season that I shot the toe-head with had be in the gun for 2 weeks - in and out of rotten Idaho weather, but I was confident in my moister barriers and no greese on the plug and no oil in the barrel to run down into the powder.
And AGAIN - this works for me, but as t7 says,:
Good luck to all - "not all apples are the same"
You are exactly right it did take me along time to figure this breech plug thing out. Fortunately a couple of friends of mine that I shoot trap with are area gunsmiths, actually one builds competition rifles from the ground up and really a knowlegeable soul. He is the one that explained the princeple of the seal between the face of the breech plug and the flange in the barrel. The whole thing is to achieve this seal and then addtional seals can be had in each thread of the breech plug if the thread is snug against the breech threads. I am not saying "real tight" but snug.
I have found that if I have achieved this seal at the face of the breech plug, I do not get any blow back into the threads. You can see this on the remove Remington plug - I could almost put it back in and use it again - "no guts" so I won't. To insure this seal I overwrap and even then after the plug is installed I use a bore light and look into the bore to make sure that I see Teflon tape all the way around the bore. It is my, our, theory that if the seal is intact "do not break it" until you are ready to re-wrap, there-for I end up shooting my 20,30, ?? rounds then coming home and doing the cleaning. If I am not sure sure of the seal, I will remove the whole thing not just crack it, but remove and start over it is not that difficult.
Yes, I did try the various anti-sieze compounds, and yes they worked as long as I get the "seal." But, I always hated the cleanup and I was always worried about fouling a load with excess greese from the plug. During hunting season I will load and I may not shoot that load for several days - with tape no contamination - with greese "maybe." The load I had in my Remington at the end of the season that I shot the toe-head with had be in the gun for 2 weeks - in and out of rotten Idaho weather, but I was confident in my moister barriers and no greese on the plug and no oil in the barrel to run down into the powder.
And AGAIN - this works for me, but as t7 says,:
Everyones different & so are the ML rifles. None of em' shoot alike or act the same.
01-09-2005, 07:56 PM
#13
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Idaho
Posts: 11,703
RE: can't get breach plug out....
SteveBNy,
This is one of those things that t7 was talking about it it could vary with each gun, depending on how tight the breech plug is in the breech threads. If you clean the breech plug and breech threads and yet when you screew the breech plug it you feel resistance you probabably have a very tight situation, conversly if it goes in really easy just twisting with you fingers you might have a looser plug. One of the keys is to get the breech plug in without eating it up on and tearing it up on the way in. Therefor...
White plumbers teflon is the thinnest of the tapes - if your plug is tight you may have to use this...
Pink Thompson Center or Home Depot tape is a natural/propane gas line tape and a little thicker and probably the most often used.
Yellow Tape seems to be the thickest of all tapes and it is another natural/propane gas line tape - I have some but none of my guns requires this thick of tape
Again if the tape gets eaten up on the way in it will not work as well and you will need to trya thinner wrap. To be honest with you when I received my education thru trail-and-error with this I use to completly over warap the end of the nipple, pat the tape down so there was no flash hole, install the plug - up snug, then look in the barrel with a light to make sure I had teflon all the way around the breech plug. Then either punch a hole with a nipple pick or touch of a cap in the garage to puch a hole through the tape.
I do shoot 100/110 grain loads of loose t7-2f and as Triple Se7en, suggest heavier loads with heavier projectiles does increase the possibility of fouling the breech plug. I think he would qualify this as a stout load.
Again this works for me - your results may vary - If you choose to try, this work you way through it don't jump in with both feet...
This is one of those things that t7 was talking about it it could vary with each gun, depending on how tight the breech plug is in the breech threads. If you clean the breech plug and breech threads and yet when you screew the breech plug it you feel resistance you probabably have a very tight situation, conversly if it goes in really easy just twisting with you fingers you might have a looser plug. One of the keys is to get the breech plug in without eating it up on and tearing it up on the way in. Therefor...
White plumbers teflon is the thinnest of the tapes - if your plug is tight you may have to use this...
Pink Thompson Center or Home Depot tape is a natural/propane gas line tape and a little thicker and probably the most often used.
Yellow Tape seems to be the thickest of all tapes and it is another natural/propane gas line tape - I have some but none of my guns requires this thick of tape
Again if the tape gets eaten up on the way in it will not work as well and you will need to trya thinner wrap. To be honest with you when I received my education thru trail-and-error with this I use to completly over warap the end of the nipple, pat the tape down so there was no flash hole, install the plug - up snug, then look in the barrel with a light to make sure I had teflon all the way around the breech plug. Then either punch a hole with a nipple pick or touch of a cap in the garage to puch a hole through the tape.
I do shoot 100/110 grain loads of loose t7-2f and as Triple Se7en, suggest heavier loads with heavier projectiles does increase the possibility of fouling the breech plug. I think he would qualify this as a stout load.
Again this works for me - your results may vary - If you choose to try, this work you way through it don't jump in with both feet...
01-09-2005, 08:01 PM
#14
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: MD
Posts: 57
RE: can't get breach plug out....
All I have ever used on the threads of my Remington is Bore Butter. I have never had a problem removing the breech plug, either after extended sessions at the range (30-40 shots) or leaving it installed for weeks at a time after cleaning. Maybe other muzzleloaders have more of a tendency to seize their breech plugs than my Remington, but I have never experienced a problem. If I'm just lucky I'll take it!
Brian
Brian
01-14-2005, 09:03 AM
#16
Typical Buck
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Michigan
Posts: 771
RE: can't get breach plug out....
I would avoid applying too much torque to the breach plug as suggested by using an extension to a ratchet wrench. You could damage the threads in the barrel in which case you have just ruined your ML. Same thing goes for nipples.
I've had the unfortunate experience of two seized breach plugs and 5 seized nipples in the past...
Per Thompson Center Service...
Place the breach plug end of the barrel in boiling water with a little boiling water down the barrel for about 15-20 minutes should work just fine. Get things really hot and wet.
Penetrating oil such as WD-40 and 24 hours is one way to go.
I however, never let penetrating oils get anywhere near my firearms. I suppose if the above boiling water technique did not work I might try penetrating oil.
After you get your breach plug removed. Ensure that you are applying a generous amount of a quality high temp/anti-seizure lube to both the barrel threads and plug threads. Don't skimp on the lube. Tape is fine but tape can also be pushed out of portions of threads entirely. I would stick with a quality lube.
Hand tighten only. You do not need to reef the plugs in place.
When shooting, remember to loosen and re-tighten the plug or nipple after 6-10 shots and you should not have any problems. If you are going to be shooting over 30 shots consecutive, I would recommend removing the plug, cleaning, lubing and re-installing.
A guideline only. Every weapon is different as is the owner. Cracking loose and re-tightening the plug is likely the best field tip to ensure that your breach plug will not seize.
When it's time to remove the plug for cleaning, if things are not coming loose easily, then immediately go to the hot water technique. Don't start applying too much force or you will ruin your wrench, or worse.
My .02
I've had the unfortunate experience of two seized breach plugs and 5 seized nipples in the past...
Per Thompson Center Service...
Place the breach plug end of the barrel in boiling water with a little boiling water down the barrel for about 15-20 minutes should work just fine. Get things really hot and wet.
Penetrating oil such as WD-40 and 24 hours is one way to go.
I however, never let penetrating oils get anywhere near my firearms. I suppose if the above boiling water technique did not work I might try penetrating oil.
After you get your breach plug removed. Ensure that you are applying a generous amount of a quality high temp/anti-seizure lube to both the barrel threads and plug threads. Don't skimp on the lube. Tape is fine but tape can also be pushed out of portions of threads entirely. I would stick with a quality lube.
Hand tighten only. You do not need to reef the plugs in place.
When shooting, remember to loosen and re-tighten the plug or nipple after 6-10 shots and you should not have any problems. If you are going to be shooting over 30 shots consecutive, I would recommend removing the plug, cleaning, lubing and re-installing.
A guideline only. Every weapon is different as is the owner. Cracking loose and re-tightening the plug is likely the best field tip to ensure that your breach plug will not seize.
When it's time to remove the plug for cleaning, if things are not coming loose easily, then immediately go to the hot water technique. Don't start applying too much force or you will ruin your wrench, or worse.
My .02
