Tahquamenon

I prefer BM'3 for the performance characteristics in terms of velocity, cleanliness, ignition and felt recoil. Not price.
The price is higher than everything else at this point.
If cost alone was my highest priority, I would not be using BM'3.
For that matter, I would not have several things that I presently have if cost was primary consideration.

According to BM'3, the BM'3 ignition threshold is in the 3-400 degree range, thus making it a wonderful powder for flint and percussion ML's.
Shot BM'3 in my older T/C hawken perc. last night in 70gr loads. Shoots fantastic! 20 shots and each one with a perfect ignition.

Cleanup is a truly a breeze.

I think that pioneer produces a fine product. I just prefer the Black Mag'3 over anything else.

Triple Se7en

Black Mag-3 is the "Real Deal"... or-so I've been told by a 100 different users since last fall. Personally, I am a 6-jug" annual blackpowdewr-sub user that's too cheap to pay $28 per Black Mag jug.... lol... besides... look at my screen name to the left<<<.

I encourage all shooters who use their MLs alot less than I do to experiment with BM-3 & provide your feedback right here at Hunting.net.

MLKeith

You may be correct with fffg American Pioneer. I have only shot the ffg version and it is not as clean as Black Mag3 and is considerably less powerful on a volume to volume basis.

txhunter58

Has anyone used American Pioneer in an Omega? 777 definately does leave a "crud ring" in my rifle, so I was considering trying Black mag, but you Am Pioneer users got me curious. Not much money to give it a try anyway.

Thanks for the link Bob, found a dealer in my area.

Handgunr

TxHunter,

You're always welcome.....glad you found a local supplier. I was actually surprised at how many suppliers local to me were listed. Good luck with the stuff.
The only question I had overall was LaneNebraska's advice on 3f instead of the regular 2f rifle. I was going to buy a can of different brands, maybe 1 each, but I think I'll forego that idea and just start out with his suggestion.

Lane,
Are you using the 3f by weight or volume.....(I'm assuming weight due to the finer grain)
Also, what load weight (bullet/sabot & powder) are you using ?

I've cast up several hundred of the Lyman Devastators at 262grs. (as cast) and I'll be loading them in the Harvester's over a starting "weight" of maybe 80 to 90grs of Amer. Pioneer to start.

What's your take ?

Bob

txhunter58

Not sure what Lane is doing, but I think I will start with 85 gr. AP powder BY VOLUME. The only time I feel comfortable using weight is after I have found my load and I want to get each of the loads I use more uniform by weighing them. The values that I start with (85-90 grains by volume) have no relationship with what the loads actually weigh, regardless of the BP substitute I use.

Handgunr

Tx,

What I meant was a 100gr "volume" charge of 2f, would be heavier if you used that same volume to measure 3f as it is finer grained.

I thought that by obtaining the volume to weight ratios,( i.e., 100gr of BP = 72 grs of Pyrodex), would actually give you an exact measure using the 3f.
Maybe starting out using 85grs. by volume of 3f, you might be equalling 100grs. of 2f BP........get me ?

Lane Nebraska is using the stuff, and has been, so I was kind of curious regarding speed & performance.

Bob

Triple Se7en

Buy the FFF American Pioneer... my Omega loved it until the powder got moisture-driven. I used up-to 120 grains American Pioneer... no crud ring shooting 2-shot spells before swabbing like I've always done with any powder.

txhunter58

Handgunr: Thanks for clearing that up. Sorry for the confusion. That does make sense

Triple7even: Thanks for the report. I assume you mean that AP is more hydophilic than other powders (I see now where you have posted that in the past). Were the tests you did on Clean shot or AP? Is it the exact same thing, or could they have "tweeked" it? I have never had moisture problems with pyrodex or 777. Any word on Black mag?

LaneNebraska

Handgunner

I use FFFg APP by Volume, 100 grains. I recommend FFFg, cause the FFg is too coarse and doesn’t pour or meter out well.

And I've read T7's post on his moisture problem with APP, but I have never experienced this "Phenomenon" in 4 years. Just keep your powder dry!

I had a 3 year old 1/4 can of Cleanshot that had clumped a little. I shook it up and used it on the range this year, shot just the same POI.

APP now comes with 2 or 3 silica gel packs inside each container. The only problem I have with the 1 pound plastic bottles is the seal under the lid! It's not re-usable friendly! So I just toss the foam seal, and put some plastic wrap doubled over the opening and screw the lid on over this--Presto 100% positive seal!

I've used 12 speed loaders of APP that were loaded last year, and were in my range bag. Took em to the range and they all fired just fine, same POI!!

Just shot 2 more doe tonight with my son's 45cal CVA Kodiak using 225 HP/PB and 80grains APP with CCI primers. The cool part, I'm not worried about rust or in a hurry to clean the gun! I just swabbed it out, 2 wet and 2 dry patches-Finished!

Look guys, just try a pound of FFFg or buy 6-12 pounds and have some buds go in with ya to split up the cost. Ends up being about $16 bucks a pound, not 25-28 bucks like Black Mag3[:'(]

100grains in my 50cal CVA Maghunter pushing 295HP/PB just destroys deer!

Good fortune with your deer seasons! Everyone have a safe and Happy New Year!!

P.S.

I've found 100grains of FFFg APP is about the same as 100grains of Pyrodex pellets.