HunterDavid

Hello all. First off, this is a great set of forums.

Now to business. I'm hunting in IN and must go with a shotgun or ML for deer. I'm gonna go w/ a nicely priced but not top of the line ML. I've been viewing the boards a little and speaking w/ gun shop owners and family members and have narrowed it down.
I'm trying to decide between the CVA Optima, Optima pro, CVA Kodiak, or the NEF Sidekick.

The things that are important to me as a first time buyer are ease of use, a nice feel, ease of cleaning, and a solid accurate rifle at a reasonable price. Also, I would like to be able to use a wide array of bullets and loads with out problems.

So, out of those listed what would some of you experienced ML'ers recommend for a new guy with the "fever" Also, any others you would recomend; considering the fact that I dont want to spend the money for a TC or Knight just yet? Unless of course they are in my price range. Of those listed above the Optima Pro is the most expensive at $299 w/ camo and SS. So please keep this in mind?

One last thing? How important(worth the extra $) is a ss versus blued barrell? Regular stock versus camo?

Thanks in advance for any info. Your help is greatly appreciated.

Good luck in the woods, Dave.

little-d

i got a new bass pro book today it has a knight disc 50 cal for $ 299. and you get a $50. rebate from knight thats only 250 for about the top of the line gun,you do what you feel is right for you,but i would go with a knight or tc. and it don't matter blued or ss,you got to clean both thourghly or you get pitting.

icthruu

A friend of mine got the Optima (not pro) .45cal nickel camo for right at $200 from Wal-Mart, and it shoots groups like a centerfire rifle. I on the other hand got a used Knight MK92 with scope and accesories for $200, and it'll still shoot around 2-3" groups at 100 yards.

HunterDavid

Well I hadn't actually looked at the Disc rifles due to the fact that one of the only things my Uncle mentioned as a dislike were the bolt style ML's. On your advice I went to Basspro.com and the only Knight they have is the Revolution. I thought maybe it was Cabelas and surfed on over. Bingo, looks great. Like it. They are completely sold out, no backorders. Great. I cant find that price or the rebate anywhere else.

What is it that you don't like about the Optima or Kodiak? What about the NEF ML's?

Thanks again, Dave.

firsttimeelkhunter

My choice was down to sending in my ultra rifle to have the BP barrel fitted or picking up the CVA Optima. I went with the optima after I say that the NEF had a disc system as well. I shot a 3" group w the first three bullets out of the barrel of mine. I have settled on 100gr of American Pioneer pushing a 295 PowerBelt poly tipped. Like it alot!

Rwalter63

I to was recently in the market for a in-line muzzleloader and looked at all the guns your are refering to . I was even tempted to spend the extra cash and go with an Thompson Encore. In the end I decide to choose the NEF/H&R Sidekick. I personally would go with a break open style. During my first round of research I decide that I would look at the CVA Optima and Optima Pro, CVA Kodiak, Thompson's Omega, Traditions Pursuit LT and Pursuit Pro. While researching them I read about the NEF/H&R Sidekick and I added that to the mix.

I wanted a gun I could use for hunting and occasionally target shooting. The criteria most important to me were accuracy, price and safety. While doing the research I ran across what I considered a safety concern with the one manufacturers. I didn't realize that a company called BPI makes all of the following brands of guns CVA, Traditions, Winchester, New Frontier. (I beleive Remington also.)

Check out this link to see what I am referring to.

http://www.chuckhawks.com/unsafe_muzzleloaders.htm

Then read some more of Randy Wakemans articles. They are excellent sources from a very well respected muzzleloader.

http://www.chuckhawks.com/first_year_models.htm

http://www.chuckhawks.com/index2h.muzzleloader.htm

So I tried to avoid anything made by BPI, which included CVA, Traditions, Winchester and New Frontier ( I believe Remington also), due to the Spanish barrel controversy. I know that there are a lot of guns out there that are made by BPI and they are working safely. However many Ford Explorer owners drove their trucks on Firestone tires with out a problem too though it didn't necessarily make them safe. Check out the links below for even more info.

http://www.huntingpa.com/ubbthreads/...0/fpart/2/vc/1


(I have also read about a Winchester XL150 that was not overcharged that blew up, but I can not find the link right now if I find it I'll post it) Here is a link refering to the same article that I read for confirmation.)

http://bushnelloutdoors.ibforums.com...php/t7192.html


Or just do a search on Google and make up your own mind on this issue.

Some other sites to check are for information are.


http://www.graybeardoutdoors.com/phpbb2/index.php

http://www.Muzzleloadingforum.com

So with that I then narrowed my choices down two guns but then decided to add in Thompson Encore. The three guns I finally decide from were the Thompson Encore, Thompson Omega and NEF Sidekick. The Thompson's Encore is a great gun. So is the Omega. I did a lot of on site research on the topic by several visits to local gun shops. I decide that my fat finger where not suited very well for the Omega style action. With that style action to get to the 209 primer cap I would have to use a pimer puller tool. Also to load the gun I would need a primer carrier. (Most primer carriers I've seen include a primer pulling tool). Either way thats one more thing I would have to buy and carry with me. The Encore pops the primer out automatically. The Omega was eliminated due to my fat fingers. That left me with either the Encore or the Sidekick. Now the Encore is an excellent gun and Thompson's support service is second to none in the industry. However I did not want to spend that much for a gun. The H&R/NEF (A Marlin gun company which has excellent service also) Sidekick is made with rifle grade steel using the same process they use for all there other rifles. The gun is also made here in the USA. It is uses plastic re-usable primer carriers to hold the 209 primer. It makes replacing the primer easy. Finally the price on the gun starts at $159. I could buy three of them for less than the price of one Encore. (www.Cabelas.com) or Gander Mountain. I was concerned about the plastic carriers and did some more reading on them on them. What I found out is that some people have gotten over 60 shots out of a carrier and they still worked well. (NEF states that they will last aleast for 20 shots.) The carriers run around $12 for 10 and 5 are included with the gun. So I decide to purchase the Sidekick.

I just carry a couple of the carriers with primers in them in a film container and when I shoot I just replace the carrier with a new one and put the used one in my pocket to be washed up when I get home. I just recently purchased this gun so I don't have a lot time shooting it but it seems like it very accurate. My primary use is hunting. I took it to the range this weekend and had no problems at 100 yrd using 245 powerbelts and two 50 grain 777 pellets. The gun will except magnum 150 grain charges and has a 26" barrel.

Now if your looking at a gun for hunting I would seriously take a look at the Sidekick. If you want to become a competition shooter I would probably spend the additional money and purchase the Encore. Either way do your own research. I would at least drive to a local H&R dealer and look at the Sidekick. It might just be what your looking for. I hope this helped.

Robert

HunterDavid

Thank you very much to all who have responded so far.

Robert, thank you for taking the time to post all that info. I appreciate it. One question for you though. Is there any reason why you didn't look at Knight?

Anyone know of any problems with the Disc line of rifles? There are some decent prices out there plus a $50 rebate from Knight on any 24" or 26" disc rifle. Is the action on these rifles a pain? Cleaning?

Defenitely looking at The Sidekick and Knight rifles.

Thanks again, Dave.

Triple Se7en

The things that are important to me as a first time buyer are ease of use, a nice feel, ease of cleaning, and a solid accurate rifle at a reasonable price. Also, I would like to be able to use a wide array of bullets and loads with out problems.
==============================================

All signs pointed to the NEF until you mentioned "wide array of bullets". When you bring all conicals & all Powebelt/Sabertooth-type bullets into the equation, things change. None of those guns you listed above will shoot the 460 gr. No Excuse Bullet (just one example) well out to 100 yards. The ones listed above will not shoot the 225-440 gr. Powerbelt nicely either. As a matter of fact, CVA has a 300 gr. sabot restriction & 400 gr. conical restriction. Also, wanting to shoot all 180-370 gr sabot bullets "with no problems" signals T/C Omega.

You can build-up a load for the Omega with a large variety of any ML bullet on the market ... which number close to a 100.... with practice/patience & more than one powder option. You need another $100 for that gun. Sold at ultout.com for $320.03.

Blued & synthetic are fine. With the Omega, a couple of long 3/8s bolts with Great Stuff poly-foam spray in the buttstock will really level/balance it nicely. Or better yet.... get the laminated wood - but that's gonna cost you more.

Rwalter63

Triple Se7en and HunterDavid

Thanks for the input. I am not claiming to be an expert. All I am posting is where my research took me and what I have experienced. I will repeat this. Do your own research and make up your own mind. I have been shooting 245 and 295 grain Power Belts out of my Sidekick out to 100 yards and they have been accurate enough for me to feel confident to hunt with them. The Thompson guns are great guns from everything I've read and all the people I've talked to who own them. They are just 2x-3x the price. As for why I didn't look at the Knight brand I really wanted a break open action style gun and I didn't see one with that style at any of the local gun dealers. I did not want a bolt action or and Omega style action. Unfortunately I live in NY so I could not mail order a gun since it is illegal to do so to the best of my knowledge.

HunterDavid

Guys, thanks for all the help so far.

However after reading around and checking up on things I'm back to money issues.

My low dollar options of the CVA Optima, OP, and Kodiak all scare me a little to much to pluck down cash on. A lot of bad things have been said and I haven't heard one person stand up for the company and say buy an Optima Pro or anything. That leaves me with the NEF Sidekick. Robert, purchased one, recommended one, but then his links turned me away from this rifle. I just dont see why you should have any problems with your rod in the field hunting. Not to mention only coming with a 1 year warranty. At least CVA gives you a lifetime warranty. I would love to get a Disc Elite or a TC Omega but it aint happenin'!

So anyway I decided to check out some of the mid range Knights and TC's. I've heard alot of good things about the Wolverine 209 and it seems like a nice rifle. So I went and checked out a Wolverine and a TC Black Diamond. They both seemed very nice but the shop only had the 22" barrels. Also I was worried since it appeared that the breach is exposed on both of these when ready to fire. Is this a problem? Am I wrong on this? What do you guys think of the Wolverine 209 and the BlackDiamond/ BD XR? Is it important to go with the 26" barrel on these guns and stay away from the 22".

So here I am. ML season starts Saturday. I havent completely ruled out NEF or CVA. However I dont want to spend between $200-300 on a "entry level gun". Even at that money I expect a rifle, that with care, I can pass on to my son. CVA's do not bring up those kind of thoughts after reading around these forums and NEF comes with a 1 year warranty and other issues. I'm basically looking at the Knight Wolverine, T/C BD and BDXR, and possibly a Disc Extreme if on sale. Although I'm hesitant on that as the Elite seems to have been made just address issued with the Extreme. Maybe I'm way off on my assesment of the CVA's.The Kodiak and Optima do seem nice. I really would hate to pass up the closed breach CVA's and pay the same money for the open to the element Knight or TC. If that is even a big issue.

OK, enough rambling. I hate to be an immediate pest on here but the only dealers close are superstores with outrageous prices and less than helpful clerks. If I say what else after Omega or Revolution you could hear a pin drop. Really, they are mostly young, get the most commercialized gun types, or they dont even ML and could care less. So again, thank you very much for your help. It is greatly appreciated and definitely needed.

Dave