Bill the Dog

dvdegeorge,
I've shot a few hundred PowerBelts, about a hundred prbullet Colorado Conicals and a few hundred misc. bullets through my Encore over the past two years looking for a good setup. Here's what I have seen in no particular order.
1) prbullets .22 Hornet primer conversion did not always light my Encore off.
2) For PowerBelts, the bigger the grain bullet, the more they kick (obviously), but accuracy did not change for me.
3) For PowerBelts, the aerotips were no more and no less accurage than the hollow points.
4) prbullets Colorado conicals consistently shoot the exact same size groups as the PowerBelts.
5) PowerBelts are easy to load, conicals take a bit of force to get them down the barrel.
6) My Encore doesn't seem to care if I put in 100, 110, 120...or 150 grains of loose FFg 777. Accuracy seems to just stay the same. Recoil increases dramatically. 150 gr. 777 pushing a 400+ gr. bullet is a heckuva wallop to my shoulder and I really don't like to shoot more than 10 rounds of these loads in one day.
8) If sabots are legal where you hunt, prbullets dead centers are the s**t for accuracy. My groups using Dead Centers are half the size of my groups with PowerBelts or Colorado Conicals. Also, they have performed well for me on deer, but I've not used them on Elk (not legal in Colorado).
9) If I was working up an elk load in a new muzzleloader I'd start with 100 to 120 gr. 777 and my favorite conical or Powerbelt over 300 gr. and start shooting. I'd expect to see acceptable to good accuracy pretty quickly. I'd expect the ideal load for the gun to be fairly close to what I started with.
10) Everthing I've said is my opinion and nothing can be better than you getting on the range and burning some powder.

Bill the Dog

dvdegeorge

Thanks Bill the dog,good starting info.Have shot 295 gr copper hp's and they grouped well,will try some 348 and 405's,just sceptical on the mixed results people have been talking about with the powerbelts.I would think state game agencys would want you to use the most accurate projectile you can,so you cleanly harvest your game,but I'll have to play by their rules in Co.Have you taken any game with the pb conicals?

Bill the Dog

dvdegeorge,
I have muzzleloader hunted for elk in Colorado for two years now. BTW, I'm addicted to it.
I got an anterless (yearling bull actually) in 2002. 85 yards, coming straight at me in a sleet, hail, rain, lightning type of thunderstorm. I put the bullet dead center in the chest and he went down on the spot. I did not recover the 348 gr. Aerotip PowerBelt. My Encore had the factory open sights on it, which I was never very happy with. I missed a cow elk at 137 yards one day earlier.
I got a 5X5 in 2003. 95 yards, quartering away from me. 125 yards to recovery of the bull. This time, my Encore wore a Williams peep sight and a KNS crosshair front sight. Much better sight picture than the factory open sights. The 348 gr. hollow point PowerBelt hit the bull mid chest and was recovered under the hide on the far shoulder. The bullet looked almost as flat as a penny. It was over 1" in diameter and had about 50% weight retention.

Bill the Dog

dvdegeorge

This sounds like a great set up.I have an Omega with a Leupold 2x7 that I'll have to remove for the trip,was thinking of a Williams peep.That KNS front sight sounds intresting.Where did you get it and did you need a gunsmith to install it?

txhunter58

Brownells: 1-800-741-0015 has the kns sights. I tried one and don't like it in low light. Be advised there are problems with the williams peep set up. It is too low for the KNS or factory fiberoptic bead. Brownells also has a lower bead (Marble Arms) that is .405" high, but I hope to find one even shorter. It is either that or shim up the rear peep. I will let you know how it turns out.

Bill the Dog

I first read about the Williams peep sight/KNS crosshair sight on another forum. I tried it and it is fantastic. My groups at 100 yards are equal to the groups I get when I have my 1.5-5X scope mounted on the Encore.
Here is a link to the discussion about how to mount the sights.
http://www.monstermuleys.info/dcforu...mID14/676.html
Since I do not know if this website will allow the posting of the above website, here is a cut and pasted version of my post on how to mount the sights.
I have this setup on my Encore 209 50 cal. I mounted a KNS front crosshair sight into a dovetail base from Brownells. I put the Williams WGRS rear peep on also. I did this after following this board and I absolutely love the sight picture this setup gives. I could not even see an elk at greater than 100 yards with the stock fiber optic sights on the Encore. I missed an elk at 137 yards last year due to this problem. I can now shoot 2 inch groups at 100 yards with absolutely no problems. I shot a 5X5 at 95 yards this fall in Colorado and I have absolute confidence in my weapon now.
Here's a blow by blow of what I had to do to make the system work. For what it's worth, I did all the work myself.
I bought a KNS dovetail mount hooded front sight with the duplex reticle. I bought the lowest Williams dovetail base available from Brownells. I bought a Williams WGRS front sight from Cabelas (you can get the WGRS sights anywhere, I just happened to be in a Cabelas store).
I set the KNS into the dovetail base using a small piece of wood as a drift and a small hammer. The fit is tight and it should be. However, the base of the KNS sight blocked the screw hole of the dovetail base and the dovetail base is higher than the stock Encore front sight. I had to buy a slightly longer screw and, using a small, fine grain rattail file, I removed a slight bit of material from the KNS sight base to allow the screw entry into the dovetail base. I filed away just enough to let the screw through. This turned out to be great, as the screw is double insurance to hold the KNS sight in the dovetail base i.e. the KNS sight can absolutely not slide around or out of the dovetail base with my setup because the screwhead would not allow this.
Next I mounted the WGRS rear peep directly on my barrel. I shot 3 shots and the gun was 9 inches low at 50 yards. Either the front sight had to be lowered or the rear sight had to be raised. I could come up with no way to lower the front sight so I shimmed up the rear sight. This required longer screws for the rear sight. Don't laugh, but I used cut up refrigerator magnets as shim matterial. I tightned the rear sight screws down hard and shot at 50 and 100 yards. Everything was perfect.
In summary, anyone can do this. I needed to go to a gunshop once for the 3 new screws I needed, but everything else was pretty easily assembled. I've put about 50 rounds through with this setup, taken the gun out to and back from Colorado and it has not changed point of aim one bit. I wish that KNS would make a front sight that mounted directly to the Encore barrel. this would not only be easier and look better, but would allow me to mount the WGRS rear sight directly to the barrel and not have to shim it up. I've emailed Kaeger systems about this and have not heard back from them. In my opinion, this is an absolutely must do modification if you currently have a weapon with fiber optic sights.

Bill the Dog

txhunter58

I think you would have to try the KNS to see if you like it. Maybe it is my eys, but I can't see the crosshairs in low light. Since I don't plan on shooting at an elk past 100 yards, the front fiberoptic bead has worked well for me.

I just spoke with Williams gun sight company and he has a screw on front fiberoptic sight that should work on the omega and is only 0.36" high. Ordered one today. Part # 66660 and is $18. Let me try it out and see if it does work this weekend and I will report back.

dvdegeorge

txhunter58,thanks let us know how that works for you,everyones input helps save time and $$$

whitetails & muskies

When I put my Williams peep on my .50 caliber Traditions, I left the front fiber optic sight on and it seems to work well in low light.

txhunter58

Got my front fiberoptic sight from Williams and there was a problem. It is indeed lower and should work in that regard, but the screw that comes with it is smaller than the one on the Omega and not long enough. Also, the right size screw doesn't fit through the hole in the sight. Found some screws at the local gun shop that should work and it should be simple to enlarge the hole with a drill, but I have since found out that T/C has a lower sight and they are sending it to me FREE. Haven't gotten that yet, and I am waiting on that to see if I want to enlarge the hole in the Williams and use it or go with the T/C sight. If it is low enough, it makes more sense to go with the one that T/C uses, since it should fit without any alterations. I also found that they sell fiberoptic replacement rods for their front sights. I always like to keep some replacement since they are easy to break. Will report as soon as I get the new sight