sabotloader

There was an objective, actually more than one, this morning as I packed up and headed to the Rock Pit for some components testing...

1. I wanted to shoot CCI 209 primers... Grouse and I had talked primer the other day and one thing led to another and we ended up at his NULA... The primer suggested fro the NULA was CCI primer. I no We speculated that the CCI might be more uniform in size and might be somewhat cleaner than the W209's that I have been using.

This actually might be correct... I hastily shimmed up an old version #1 Lehigh plug to fit the CCI's - installed it in the rifle last night in preparation for this trip. This morning my quick work up proved not to be so good as I was not getting a seal at the primer nose that I thought I might. The primers were coming out a little bit dirty not as bad as they could but enough I did not like them.

But the 'GOOD POINT' and I will have to re-shoot this test - after 15 shots, the flash channel had very little residue in it. Was very easy to hand drill out. So maybe the CCI's are cleaner as we speculated. As noted I will re-shoot this test.

2. I wanted to shoot some of these Parker bullets - sabotless. The yellow tipped Parkers with a diameter of .4505 were a little bit to small for any of the 3 45 rifles I tried them in. It would and was very easy to knurl them up between to files. The knurled bullets worked very well in the Supper DISC.

The larger diameter black tipped Parkers (.451) - initially I thought were going to be to tight for the Super DISC. This proved to be false. A couple of them were definitely tight but loaded with the rod OK. Other and probably the majority were great.

Now I am totally speculating to a certain point at this next part. Tuesday when I pushed a .451 through the bore and out the other end - I could definitely see the bullet was contacting the lands of the bore. I could not tell you that they were reaching into the bottom of the grooves. There was not markings at that would indicate that.

So from this and from the shooting today I believe I was shooting a bullet or bullets that were riding only the lands up the barrel. I do not think I was creating enough pressure with a 120 grains to make them obturate to the bore - possible but I do not think so. There is a Ballistician Lutz Moeller that specifically designs 'bore riding' bullets that are extremely accurate. I am thinking might have been doing that shooting a 'bore rider'

The first 3 shots I took at the 9 bird setup were with a Nosler 40x200 HP and a MMP sabot. For me the bursting of all 3 birds confirmed that the rifle was good to go..

The next 3 shots were taken shooting the smaller diameter yellow tipped Parkers that I had knurled last night... They continued the winning way breaking all 3 birds. BUT I had made a mistake loading them - I forgot to put a wad in under the bullet. The next 3 shots I did install the treated Wonder Wad and the results followed suit - 3 broken birds.

The next 3 shots were shot using the 'Black" tipped .451 bullets. I was a little apprehensive about shooting these because I was worried I might get one stuck in the bore. My worries were for not. They all loaded without any major problems.

I really wanted to shoot more of the .451's so I set up another six birds - the second set of birds. The same results were noted with all the bullets shot this morning. It might be noted that I did remember the wads on all the .451 shots.

I think I should also indicate shooting clay pigeons @ a 100 yards is really not anything difficult. I think most of any of the muzzleloaders we shoot today would do the same thing.

The reason I wanted to try these Parkers is that across the country really good shooters are using them for shooting competitions with great results. I think I achieved similar results this morning only on a much smaller scale.

Parker does offer an even another bullet that has a much higher BC - the EMax. For those shooting totally for accuracy that could be the bullet for you - I am to cheap!

Here is a picture summary

Salar600

I have to try 45 bullet in my DISC.45.

Could you tel me if you can achive good accuracy using just the base of 45 sabot instead of felt wad?

Thansk

WV Hunter

Nice job SL. Keep that up you'll have to change your name to SabotLESSloader

sabotloader

Each rifle bore is a little bit different... so some 45 bullets will load and some will not. The bullets I was using were .4505 and .451 in diameter - they work in my DISC 45. But a lot of other bullets I tried have all been to big.

I would suggest you see if you can find some .451's and try that size first... I would also think the .452 would be to large - but - some Knight bores are larger.

Most people in the know, ones that do this a lot suggest a 'Veggie Wad' for under the bullet. I had lubed Wonder Wads on hand so that is what I used.

I did not try cutting/trimming a sabot because I was worried that I might not get it trimmed evenly and it might effect the flight of the bullet.

My little experiment and other sabotless adventures with a 50 cal ML have verified for me that they are and can be very accurate.

The Parkers I was using are really expensive in my world so what I was trying is/was really an experiment, and my curiosity has been satisfied. I still have some left and I am mailing them to Grouse so he can continue the experiment + plus his ambition will be to shoot them at much longer ranges than I might be interested in.

Wad inserted into the bore...



Bullet on top of the Wad

bronko22000

Nice report Sabot and good shooting. Question though. Are those Parker bullets designed for hunting or are they a target bullet? What I mean is, because you said it has a very thin jacket, will it expand too rapidly and not penetrate?

Salar600

sorry but what is veggie a wad?

Thanks for all explanations

sabotloader

I THINK and according to Bob Parker, lives just a few miles from here, they are an excellent hunting bullet. They retain about 85% of their weight.

If you look at Bob's web site, you will see 3 really good bullets type... The highest BC is found on the Emax, followed by the Ballistic Extremes, and finally the Jacketed Hydro-Cons...







It also follows that Bob may have made a point to create the highest BC bullet he could for the active long range shooters.

I am extremely happy with the bullets that I am currently hunting with so at this point I will not make the switch to these bullet.

Might take a look around the web-site and see what you think...

http://www.parkerproductionsinc.com/

sabotloader

You know what... I really do not know for sure - never have used them but lets see what I find.

This might help you...

http://www.trackofthewolf.com/List/Item.aspx/172/2

But now that I look I do shoot veggie wads... only I call them shot cards...

Gm54-120

These http://www.buffaloarms.com/vegetable...s_pr-4114.aspx

For 45cal ML you want fiber wads made for 45cal (.458) rifle. They are roughly .460-.462 and .060 thick. You can also get them in .030 thickness but most people i know use the .060.

super_hunt54

Why didn't you use a sub base instead of wonder wads?

Salar600, By sub base I mean these http://mmpsabots.com/store/50-cal-bb...idge-sub-base/ they are basically what you were saying, "a sabot with the petals cut off" except these are actually the base formed without the petals.