White barrel
07-13-2015, 06:34 PM
#11
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 5,605
Because the 45/70 barrel is a 1-20 and you would use either a Savage breach plug or one of the others plugs rated for smokeless pressures. Such as a Hankins HIS plug but that gets pricey. They all work fine with BH209 and subs. You wont be using a CVA plug at all when converting a 45/70 barrel.
The Bergara 45ml barrel is a 1-28 and ive heard of several that ran quite large including a Accura 45cal i used to own.
The Bergara 45ml barrel is a 1-28 and ive heard of several that ran quite large including a Accura 45cal i used to own.
Last edited by Gm54-120; 07-13-2015 at 06:36 PM.
07-14-2015, 12:02 PM
#13
Nontypical Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Illinois
Posts: 3,695
Gm, I just got off the phone with a buddy of mine that works for Shilen. He flat out said I would be screwing the pooch for a LOT of bullets out there if I went to a 1:20 .45. Said they are great with the longer, heavier bullets but for the most part they over spin the hell out of most bullets for hunting. Said my best bet would be to go for a Bergara .45 1:28 28 inch barrel if I wanted a .45. Said most every bullet he feeds his works well in it. So it looks like I might just be doing that. He did say that 1:24 twist .50cal barrel from White would be a great addition. Said I could seriously lighten my powder charges and still use a heavier bullet which is what I really want to do.
07-14-2015, 12:57 PM
#14
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 5,605
Im sorry but i know of a couple hundred people that disagree and they all own 1-20 or 1-22 45cals shooting 195gr-200gr bullet in sabots and 275gr to 300gr bullets sabotless.
That includes me. My 1-22 will shoot a 200gr bullet over 2700fps with ease and do it very accurately. If my 1-22 doesn't "over spin" a sabotted bullet at 2700fps or more, a 1-20 will in no way over spin it at 2000-2400fps.
There are many guys shooting converted 45/70 1-20s on Dougs board. Many if not most use sabots because the platform kicks like mad with a 275gr sabotless at 2600fps
This is my 1-22 at 2650-2700fps with a 200gr SST in a sabot
That includes me. My 1-22 will shoot a 200gr bullet over 2700fps with ease and do it very accurately. If my 1-22 doesn't "over spin" a sabotted bullet at 2700fps or more, a 1-20 will in no way over spin it at 2000-2400fps.
There are many guys shooting converted 45/70 1-20s on Dougs board. Many if not most use sabots because the platform kicks like mad with a 275gr sabotless at 2600fps
This is my 1-22 at 2650-2700fps with a 200gr SST in a sabot
Last edited by Gm54-120; 07-14-2015 at 01:01 PM.
07-14-2015, 01:18 PM
#15
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 5,605
You may want to look at these pics before you decide the Bergara 1-20 wont shoot. 
http://s951.photobucket.com/user/cvi...?sort=3&page=1
http://s951.photobucket.com/user/cvi...?sort=3&page=1
T/C 20" 45/70 conversion 1-20
http://s951.photobucket.com/user/cvi...1d827.jpg.html
These two were built for Bob Parker by Jeff Hankins.
http://s951.photobucket.com/user/cvi...?sort=3&page=1
http://s951.photobucket.com/user/cvi...?sort=3&page=1
T/C 20" 45/70 conversion 1-20
http://s951.photobucket.com/user/cvi...1d827.jpg.html
These two were built for Bob Parker by Jeff Hankins.
Last edited by Gm54-120; 07-14-2015 at 01:30 PM.
07-14-2015, 01:49 PM
#16
Guest
Posts: n/a
I have 2 --1:18 barrels
1 --1:22
About a dozen 1:20 and i totally disagree
Shilen employee or not he is simply recommending what he owns and is familiar with which is what most people do . How much hunting has he actually done with a 1:20 . Ive killed probably 30 or so deer with a fast twist and wouldnt switch to a 1:28
My 1:20 's shoot lots of different saboted bullets and can also shoot parkers, sst's barnes t-eze and others sabotless
Sst fits as is without sizing . . So do parkers
Then if i choose add in all the lead conicals like bullshop or no excuses . I bet my 1:20 can shoot a whole more different bullets then his 1:28 . Shucks , talk about verstility i can hunt States that require a conical , i can hunt with a saboted bulket like lehigh , i shoot long range in competition or wide open prairie hunting. I say 1:20 rules in the 45
1 --1:22
About a dozen 1:20 and i totally disagree
Shilen employee or not he is simply recommending what he owns and is familiar with which is what most people do . How much hunting has he actually done with a 1:20 . Ive killed probably 30 or so deer with a fast twist and wouldnt switch to a 1:28
My 1:20 's shoot lots of different saboted bullets and can also shoot parkers, sst's barnes t-eze and others sabotless
Sst fits as is without sizing . . So do parkers
Then if i choose add in all the lead conicals like bullshop or no excuses . I bet my 1:20 can shoot a whole more different bullets then his 1:28 . Shucks , talk about verstility i can hunt States that require a conical , i can hunt with a saboted bulket like lehigh , i shoot long range in competition or wide open prairie hunting. I say 1:20 rules in the 45
07-14-2015, 05:11 PM
#17
Nontypical Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Illinois
Posts: 3,695
Okay okay stop twisting me dang arm!!!!! 
Just relaying what I was told. I did find a lot of people saying the same thing online as well as from several ML articles talking about why very few makes the .45 in 1:20 twist anymore. Here are a couple cuttings from them just to show you why I was being misled:
Taken from here: http://www.gunnersden.com/index.htm....5-caliber.html
1:20" twist barrels shoot long heavy bullets fine at velocities below 1650 fps with sabots and under 1400 fps with conicals.
1:28" twist barrels shoot many weights of bullets fine either sabots and conicals over the entire velocity range.
1:48" twist barrels shoot patched roundball fine up to about 1800 fps and under 1750 fps with conicals.
1:66" twist barrels shoot shoot patched roundball over the entire velocity range quite accurately.
This one from PRB is the one that got me thinking: https://www.prbullet.com/s45.htm
We have .45 barrels in the shop with twist of 1:20", 1:22", 1:24", 1:28" and 1:30". We have done extensive testing using sabots from 175 grains to 250 grains and conicals from 275 grains to 360 grains. We have tested these bullets with charges of powder from 70 grains to 150 grains. Velocities from 1350 fps to 2350 fps. Our results are predictable and consistent.
1:20" twist barrels shoot long heavy bullets fine at velocities below 1650 fps with sabots and under 1400 fps with conicals.
1:24" twist barrels shoot long heavy bullets fine up to about 1800 fps with sabots and under 1550 fps with conicals.
1:28"-1:30" twist barrels shoot all weights of bullets fine either sabots and conicals over the entire velocity range attainable with charges of powder up to and including 150 grains.
Personally, I would not buy any .45 caliber muzzleloader that did not have a barrel twist of 1:28" to 1:30". Period. Currently the gun makers who fall into that range are Knight, CVA, Winchester, Remington and Kahnke.
That's just a couple but you can see why I made a call.
Just relaying what I was told. I did find a lot of people saying the same thing online as well as from several ML articles talking about why very few makes the .45 in 1:20 twist anymore. Here are a couple cuttings from them just to show you why I was being misled:Taken from here: http://www.gunnersden.com/index.htm....5-caliber.html
1:20" twist barrels shoot long heavy bullets fine at velocities below 1650 fps with sabots and under 1400 fps with conicals.
1:28" twist barrels shoot many weights of bullets fine either sabots and conicals over the entire velocity range.
1:48" twist barrels shoot patched roundball fine up to about 1800 fps and under 1750 fps with conicals.
1:66" twist barrels shoot shoot patched roundball over the entire velocity range quite accurately.
This one from PRB is the one that got me thinking: https://www.prbullet.com/s45.htm
We have .45 barrels in the shop with twist of 1:20", 1:22", 1:24", 1:28" and 1:30". We have done extensive testing using sabots from 175 grains to 250 grains and conicals from 275 grains to 360 grains. We have tested these bullets with charges of powder from 70 grains to 150 grains. Velocities from 1350 fps to 2350 fps. Our results are predictable and consistent.
1:20" twist barrels shoot long heavy bullets fine at velocities below 1650 fps with sabots and under 1400 fps with conicals.
1:24" twist barrels shoot long heavy bullets fine up to about 1800 fps with sabots and under 1550 fps with conicals.
1:28"-1:30" twist barrels shoot all weights of bullets fine either sabots and conicals over the entire velocity range attainable with charges of powder up to and including 150 grains.
Personally, I would not buy any .45 caliber muzzleloader that did not have a barrel twist of 1:28" to 1:30". Period. Currently the gun makers who fall into that range are Knight, CVA, Winchester, Remington and Kahnke.
That's just a couple but you can see why I made a call.
07-14-2015, 06:07 PM
#18
Guest
Posts: n/a
Okay okay stop twisting me dang arm!!!!! Just relaying what I was told. I did find a lot of people saying the same thing online as well as from several ML articles talking about why very few makes the .45 in 1:20 twist anymore. Here are a couple cuttings from them just to show you why I was being misled:
Taken from here: http://www.gunnersden.com/index.htm....5-caliber.html
1:20" twist barrels shoot long heavy bullets fine at velocities below 1650 fps with sabots and under 1400 fps with conicals.
1:28" twist barrels shoot many weights of bullets fine either sabots and conicals over the entire velocity range.
1:48" twist barrels shoot patched roundball fine up to about 1800 fps and under 1750 fps with conicals.
1:66" twist barrels shoot shoot patched roundball over the entire velocity range quite accurately.
This one from PRB is the one that got me thinking: https://www.prbullet.com/s45.htm
We have .45 barrels in the shop with twist of 1:20", 1:22", 1:24", 1:28" and 1:30". We have done extensive testing using sabots from 175 grains to 250 grains and conicals from 275 grains to 360 grains. We have tested these bullets with charges of powder from 70 grains to 150 grains. Velocities from 1350 fps to 2350 fps. Our results are predictable and consistent.
1:20" twist barrels shoot long heavy bullets fine at velocities below 1650 fps with sabots and under 1400 fps with conicals.
1:24" twist barrels shoot long heavy bullets fine up to about 1800 fps with sabots and under 1550 fps with conicals.
1:28"-1:30" twist barrels shoot all weights of bullets fine either sabots and conicals over the entire velocity range attainable with charges of powder up to and including 150 grains.
Personally, I would not buy any .45 caliber muzzleloader that did not have a barrel twist of 1:28" to 1:30". Period. Currently the gun makers who fall into that range are Knight, CVA, Winchester, Remington and Kahnke.
That's just a couple but you can see why I made a call.
Just relaying what I was told. I did find a lot of people saying the same thing online as well as from several ML articles talking about why very few makes the .45 in 1:20 twist anymore. Here are a couple cuttings from them just to show you why I was being misled:Taken from here: http://www.gunnersden.com/index.htm....5-caliber.html
1:20" twist barrels shoot long heavy bullets fine at velocities below 1650 fps with sabots and under 1400 fps with conicals.
1:28" twist barrels shoot many weights of bullets fine either sabots and conicals over the entire velocity range.
1:48" twist barrels shoot patched roundball fine up to about 1800 fps and under 1750 fps with conicals.
1:66" twist barrels shoot shoot patched roundball over the entire velocity range quite accurately.
This one from PRB is the one that got me thinking: https://www.prbullet.com/s45.htm
We have .45 barrels in the shop with twist of 1:20", 1:22", 1:24", 1:28" and 1:30". We have done extensive testing using sabots from 175 grains to 250 grains and conicals from 275 grains to 360 grains. We have tested these bullets with charges of powder from 70 grains to 150 grains. Velocities from 1350 fps to 2350 fps. Our results are predictable and consistent.
1:20" twist barrels shoot long heavy bullets fine at velocities below 1650 fps with sabots and under 1400 fps with conicals.
1:24" twist barrels shoot long heavy bullets fine up to about 1800 fps with sabots and under 1550 fps with conicals.
1:28"-1:30" twist barrels shoot all weights of bullets fine either sabots and conicals over the entire velocity range attainable with charges of powder up to and including 150 grains.
Personally, I would not buy any .45 caliber muzzleloader that did not have a barrel twist of 1:28" to 1:30". Period. Currently the gun makers who fall into that range are Knight, CVA, Winchester, Remington and Kahnke.
That's just a couple but you can see why I made a call.
07-14-2015, 07:24 PM
#19
Nontypical Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Illinois
Posts: 3,695
Well, the wife showed me my first bill that my Medical insurance don't cover with my knee stuff so that made the decision for me. Going with GM's suggestion and getting the Bergara 45/70 barrel fitted up with a Plug. May get me a White Barrel next year. Even with me not spending a truckload on out of state hunts this year damn Doc bills are going to smack my butt hard.
07-14-2015, 07:35 PM
#20
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 5,605
Look up Slufoot on Dougs message board or i will see if i can get you his contact info. He does great work and its cheap. You only need to supply the barrel and Savage breach plug which is about $30-35 or $80 if you want to go with a tungsten bushing version.
I just use the regular vent liner version. The tungsten bushing version last way way longer. At least 400 shots and probably way more before it needs a new bushing. Vents last over 100 shots usually. I get 200 or so out of a Lehigh vent liner in my Knights with BH209.
BTW this conversion will handle smokeless loads if you choose. A 200gr SST at 2400fps is a walk in the park with only 56gr of powder and the peak pressure is very low with that load.
I just use the regular vent liner version. The tungsten bushing version last way way longer. At least 400 shots and probably way more before it needs a new bushing. Vents last over 100 shots usually. I get 200 or so out of a Lehigh vent liner in my Knights with BH209.
BTW this conversion will handle smokeless loads if you choose. A 200gr SST at 2400fps is a walk in the park with only 56gr of powder and the peak pressure is very low with that load.
Last edited by Gm54-120; 07-14-2015 at 07:44 PM.