1874sharpsshooter

I know this has been discussed several times but lets do the twist again, without Chubby Checker.

If i were to get a gun custom made I would like to try the following twist options

50 cal. 1:22-1:26
45 cal 1:18 -1:22
40 cal 1:16

I would end up settling on the following:
50 cal 1:24
45 cal 1:18
40 cal 1:16

I would pick those simply because I have guns in those twists that perform with great accuracy.

I guess thats why I dont understand these sml builds with a 1:32 twist. My GPH is a 1:32 twist and I understand its limitations,. I could understand it in the past when only pistol bullets were available, but why such a slow twist in this day and age for a sml. Someone enlighten me please. I would think if I were building a sml I would want a fast twist, such as listed above.

flounder33

I am totally in agreement with you on the twist rates Chet. I suppose it just depends on the bullet you are shooting though. If you are going to shoot something like 200 grain .400 bullets in lead, you might not have the best results with a fast twist. I can't say for sure though, because I haven't tried that bullet in my fast twist Whites.
You have a .410 super don't you? Is that a 1 in 14 twist? What have you been shooting out of that?

cayugad

Yes and no. Besides twist being a very important factor, as we all know it is, you also have to take into consideration the type and depth of rifling. And last, the powder charge. If you talk to many modern muzzleloader shooters they discuss their 100-120 grain loads. If you read the history books when these twists were first used, 40-80 grains was far more common.

The 1-32 is a nice twist but if you try to push powder hard in them, you might get some real strange results. Now when I shoot roundball I have been having good luck with my GPH shooting 50 grains. When I talked to Lyman about the rifle their load suggestions were 80 grains of powder with the conical bullets. A far cry from the 120 grain loads some shoot.

In a book I have about flintlock rifles by Don Davis.. he talks of his favorite deer load being 50 grains of powder and a patched roundball. His thinking was, the ball was very accurate, and penetrated to the vital organs where the ball would stay and expel all of its energy.

I am currently looking at a custom rifle. And the twist we are talking for a .54 roundball rifle is 1-66 to 1-72 twist. I am looking at a Rice and or a Colerain barrel with a Seiler lock. I want the best roundball shooter possible. I considered .58 caliber even a .62 but after a lot of discussion, we always seem to float back to the .54 as the best target and hunting caliber.

I always thought it would be interesting to get a White barrel in 1-24 twist, and make a flintlock out of that and shoot conical bullets out of it. What fun it would be to have a flintlock and shoot against friends but not tell them what the barrel really is....

Gm54-120

I was extremely skeptical the ULA 50cal with a 1-32 could shoot so well. I guess when it can get over 2400fps with 225g-250gr bullets, the FPS has a lot to do with it. It does quite well with the Parker 275gr at roughly 2300fps-2400fps also but accuracy drops off with a 300gr bullet. Im not sure if its the twist or the extra recoil in a ultra light rifle.

The Savage 50cal with a 1-24 picks up the slack when a 300gr or 325gr is needed. The faster twist helps the longer bullets without the need for more speed. Its still very capable of 2400fps with a many bullets but recoil gets abusive. Accuracy seems to degrade a little also with some lighter/shorter bullets if you push them too fast.

The twists you picked have done well with SMLs and MLs. They have done well in the 45cal with or without sabots. They have done well with smokeless and subs. Knight's target rifle even used a 45cal 1-18 and won many matches at Friendship.

Im not sure why Melvin chose to break from the norm with the ULA and use a 1-32 but the results are well documented on the MM smokeless section.

1874sharpsshooter

My .410's are 1:16 and i shoot a 410 gr lead conical. I wish I had some conicals around 380 gr to try , but alas , not to be.
The experimental 36 cal Super 91 that Doc had built was a 1:14.
For a 40 cal bullet I wouldn't shoot a 200 gr lead bullet but in the 45 I bet a .40 cal brass or copper bullet around 230 -250 gr. or so would be good with maybe a harvester light blue sabot .

1874sharpsshooter

Dave: I agree with the 54 1:72 twist for round ball. I have two different 1:72 twist guns and they are hard to beat when it comes to accuracy.Check with Doc , awhile back he had a Bridget Hawken 58 cal with a 1:72 Kelly barrel in a 1:72 twist . It was for sale either unfinished or finished. I myself prefer the 54 also over the 58.

SuperKirby

If I'm right, I believe NULA's are 1-32" Douglas barrels, same as SMI. I thought long and hard about going this route. I really thought about going with a faster twist, but in the end I decided the guy building the barrels probably knows what his barrels work well with. I haven't shot it yet, but hopefully I won't be disappointed with this choice.
That said, I was also told the 1-32 twist is working really well with black crush ribs sabots and the .458 FTX. I thought I had some of those sabots, but it turns out I don't. I tried shoving that bullet down in a mmp sabot and there's no way it's going down.

Gm54-120

If it wont go down in a MMP Orange, a .458 probably wont go down in a HBCR either. Its slightly larger in loaded OD than the MMP Orange. The Douglas barrels are near a true .500.

You can buy a .454 Lee sizing die and that should allow them to work with a HBCR sabot. Loaded OD comes out a little smaller than a MMP Orange.

Semisane

Here's an e-mail I sent to Doc White, and his response.

My query to Doc:

Here's the bullet I was referring to: http://www.hornady.com/store/44-Cal-.430-240-gr-SWC/


Doc's reply:

1874sharpsshooter

I don't believe the part about you being a young fellow in 1963
but the rest sounds like good info.